Started heat treating the Ripster tonight. He's hard as he will get. Will draw him back to a working hardness tomorrow. Will do a write up with pics this weekend. Stay tuned to the Ripster channel for more developments. Dave
-
Happy Unveiling of Michelangelo's Paintings on Sistine Chapel Ceiling (1512)! 👇
Knife build / canoetripping.net fund raiser thread.
- Thread starter Rippy
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
I just re-read the knife threads. Counting every reference I think “The Ripster” has it in a landslide, with “Ned Beatty” coming in a distant second.
Memaquay was right, if you say something often enough people will begin to believe it. Except in declaring that he is going to win the raffle.
I think that all good, right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that all good, right thinking people in that frigid wasteland up north are fed up with being told that all good, and right thinking people on Canoe Tripping are fed up with being sick and tired of Memequay thinking he is going to win this knife. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am.
When we get around to the sheath design for the actual winning ticket I do have some specific winner’s preferences.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2013
- Messages
- 271
- Reaction score
- 1
Well, I have been enjoying the banter back and forth on the winner of this legendary blade so didn't want to chime in until now. I do want to inform you all that I do believe I will be the winner of this blade...the blade keeper so to speak and will probably need it to ward off the Gollum's, that would be all the losers, that will be hunting me down from the south the the far north! And Mr. McCrea, a frigid wasteland??? Hmmmphh! Gods Country compared to that humid petri dish you dwell in! ;-)
G
Guest
Guest
One knife to slice the Klik, One knife to find them
One knife to carve the meat by-products and in the darkness remove the fatty pig lip parts and bind them”
Probably there ought to be stipulations as in the knife shall never never be used to stab a lobster. Ergo Doug d is out.
If the Ripster is anything like his maker, he has a rebellious streak. In other words go for it.
Back on topic for a bit.
So far all the work on the Ripster's blade has been done with the tool steel in the "anealed" condition. This means the tool steel is in it's soft state and is easily cut with normal metal working tools. Ripster needs to be hardened so he holds an edge. How does that work you might ask? Lets talk about the basics, being that's about all I understand on the subject anyway. In my way of thinking, the best way I could explain the process of hardening steel would be to first look at water. As we know water is in different forms at different temps. Looking at different temps water has distinctly different forms and properties. If we stare at forms of snow we will see that depending on temp and humidity when formed, the ice crystals, while still being snow, are different shapes or forms. Unless it is physically altered, as long as the formed crystal stays frozen it stays the same form and shape.
Lets look at steel the same way. Unless we happen to be melting steel it is normally frozen. As we heat steel it passes through many phases and each phase has a different matrix's. Depending on the crystals formed the steel has different properties. Snow once formed, has different properties at different temps. From slushy mushy to squeaky when you walk on it. If the steel is quenched at that point it is "frozen" in that state and has the properties of those matrix's and crystals. I want the Ripster to have the qualities of a knife blade so I am looking for a certain hardness range. To get what I want I will harden the blade to the max. Quench "freeze" it at that state. Then heat it at a lower temperature to slowly "thaw" it back slightly to a different matrix or phase till I get the hardness and properties I want. What do I want? I want it a compromise between edge holding and brittleness. Also it would be nice if you could touch it up with a hone stone. A edge that is too hard is not practical in the woods. Lets get started.
My heat treat oven is an electric oven as opposed to gas. With a gas oven you can regulate the gas to have one of three atmospheres. Carburizing (gas rich), Oxidizing (oxygen rich), or a neutral atmosphere. For normal heat treating you want a neutral atmosphere. Well being I have an electric oven I am stuck with an oxidizing atmosphere. At high temps this would cause the Ripster's carbon to migrate toward the surface and scale up. To avoid that I will make a pouch out of stainless foil to shelter Ripster in the oven.
Here is the foil pouch and a piece of blue paper shop towel. The paper is put inside the pouch with the blade to burn off the oxygen in the pouch as it heats up.
My heat treat area. The oven is on the right. Hardness tester is on the left. In between are two large aluminum blocks that will sandwich the Ripster and hold him flat / strait as he cools.
The Ripster has been up to temperature (1880 F) for 1/2 hour and is ready to quench (freeze).
I look pretty calm in this picture. This part used to make me very very nervous. I have been doing this for twenty five years, so now I just get a little nervous.
After he cooled between the aluminum blocks, I took him out of the pouch. The pouch must have leaked slightly near the tip of the knife. It will be fine. I have to sand the whole thing anyway. Just a little more sanding required in that area.
After quenching Ripster measures 65 on the Rockwell C scale. I would like to draw him back to about 60 RC.
Ok. So far I have gave Rip a double draw (2 hours + 2 hour with a cool down in between) at 650*F. He came down to 60 1/2 RC. Back in the oven for 2 more hours at 680*. Still 60 1/2 RC. Back in at 720*. 60 1/2 RC. All right then, the stubborn b*st*rd is going to stay 60 1/2 RC. Most D2 I have used over the years would harden to 64 RC and draw to 60 RC at 450*F. This batch must have some extra goodies thrown in cause it gets harder (65 RC) and draws at a higher temp. Drawing at a higher temp is touchy because at some point the curve drops suddenly and you could drop below the range you are shooting for. If that happens you have to start the process all over. So, after 8 total hours of drawing the Stubborn b*st*rd, formerly known as The Ripster, is done heat treating. Ya, I know what you are thinking. Stubborn b*st*rd is like his maker, and you would be thinking right.
These are the marks that the diamond indenter of the hardness tester makes. I test in the finger guard area so they don't show when finished.
Ok people, next up is finishing the blade. Some of you, I won't mention names like Mike and Brad, have leaned back and forth on blade finish. Time to decide among your selves. Mirror or satin. I like them both on this knife but it's not for me to decide this time. The jury is out, Brad (Odyssey) you are appointed (stuck) being the foreman of the jury. Take as much time as you need. I await the verdict. Judge Dave
So far all the work on the Ripster's blade has been done with the tool steel in the "anealed" condition. This means the tool steel is in it's soft state and is easily cut with normal metal working tools. Ripster needs to be hardened so he holds an edge. How does that work you might ask? Lets talk about the basics, being that's about all I understand on the subject anyway. In my way of thinking, the best way I could explain the process of hardening steel would be to first look at water. As we know water is in different forms at different temps. Looking at different temps water has distinctly different forms and properties. If we stare at forms of snow we will see that depending on temp and humidity when formed, the ice crystals, while still being snow, are different shapes or forms. Unless it is physically altered, as long as the formed crystal stays frozen it stays the same form and shape.
Lets look at steel the same way. Unless we happen to be melting steel it is normally frozen. As we heat steel it passes through many phases and each phase has a different matrix's. Depending on the crystals formed the steel has different properties. Snow once formed, has different properties at different temps. From slushy mushy to squeaky when you walk on it. If the steel is quenched at that point it is "frozen" in that state and has the properties of those matrix's and crystals. I want the Ripster to have the qualities of a knife blade so I am looking for a certain hardness range. To get what I want I will harden the blade to the max. Quench "freeze" it at that state. Then heat it at a lower temperature to slowly "thaw" it back slightly to a different matrix or phase till I get the hardness and properties I want. What do I want? I want it a compromise between edge holding and brittleness. Also it would be nice if you could touch it up with a hone stone. A edge that is too hard is not practical in the woods. Lets get started.
My heat treat oven is an electric oven as opposed to gas. With a gas oven you can regulate the gas to have one of three atmospheres. Carburizing (gas rich), Oxidizing (oxygen rich), or a neutral atmosphere. For normal heat treating you want a neutral atmosphere. Well being I have an electric oven I am stuck with an oxidizing atmosphere. At high temps this would cause the Ripster's carbon to migrate toward the surface and scale up. To avoid that I will make a pouch out of stainless foil to shelter Ripster in the oven.
Here is the foil pouch and a piece of blue paper shop towel. The paper is put inside the pouch with the blade to burn off the oxygen in the pouch as it heats up.
My heat treat area. The oven is on the right. Hardness tester is on the left. In between are two large aluminum blocks that will sandwich the Ripster and hold him flat / strait as he cools.
The Ripster has been up to temperature (1880 F) for 1/2 hour and is ready to quench (freeze).
I look pretty calm in this picture. This part used to make me very very nervous. I have been doing this for twenty five years, so now I just get a little nervous.
After he cooled between the aluminum blocks, I took him out of the pouch. The pouch must have leaked slightly near the tip of the knife. It will be fine. I have to sand the whole thing anyway. Just a little more sanding required in that area.
After quenching Ripster measures 65 on the Rockwell C scale. I would like to draw him back to about 60 RC.
Ok. So far I have gave Rip a double draw (2 hours + 2 hour with a cool down in between) at 650*F. He came down to 60 1/2 RC. Back in the oven for 2 more hours at 680*. Still 60 1/2 RC. Back in at 720*. 60 1/2 RC. All right then, the stubborn b*st*rd is going to stay 60 1/2 RC. Most D2 I have used over the years would harden to 64 RC and draw to 60 RC at 450*F. This batch must have some extra goodies thrown in cause it gets harder (65 RC) and draws at a higher temp. Drawing at a higher temp is touchy because at some point the curve drops suddenly and you could drop below the range you are shooting for. If that happens you have to start the process all over. So, after 8 total hours of drawing the Stubborn b*st*rd, formerly known as The Ripster, is done heat treating. Ya, I know what you are thinking. Stubborn b*st*rd is like his maker, and you would be thinking right.
These are the marks that the diamond indenter of the hardness tester makes. I test in the finger guard area so they don't show when finished.
Ok people, next up is finishing the blade. Some of you, I won't mention names like Mike and Brad, have leaned back and forth on blade finish. Time to decide among your selves. Mirror or satin. I like them both on this knife but it's not for me to decide this time. The jury is out, Brad (Odyssey) you are appointed (stuck) being the foreman of the jury. Take as much time as you need. I await the verdict. Judge Dave
Last edited:
Can I be Sheriff instead?
I forgot to mention that D2 is "air" hardening. There are three different quenching mediums depending on how fast the steel needs to cool to "freeze" in that state. Air, oil, and water. D2 cools fast enough in "still air" to quench "freeze".
Last edited:
Well Judge, I've stopped sitting on the fence and have fallen off ...on the satin side. Satin it is. Definitely satin for the stubborn b*st*rd.
I was wondering about the hardness, and worried how difficult it might be to touch up a good edge. Glad you addressed that in this latest post.
I was wondering about the hardness, and worried how difficult it might be to touch up a good edge. Glad you addressed that in this latest post.
Last edited:
Is satin your decision or the juries decision or both?
Mirror or satin ?
Mirror in case I need to signal SOS to a plane flying over, HA !
I suspected the heat treating to be more involved, and I was right. That is pure COOL ! There is a lot of equipment, as well as skill involved ! I'll look at knife making in a different light !
Thanks Rippy ! I'm impressed !
Jim
Mirror in case I need to signal SOS to a plane flying over, HA !
I suspected the heat treating to be more involved, and I was right. That is pure COOL ! There is a lot of equipment, as well as skill involved ! I'll look at knife making in a different light !
Thanks Rippy ! I'm impressed !
Jim
Brad, it's not too late for a case of Klik to make it to your place before christmas. That could be a bribe or a threat, take it as you will.
Everyone vote now for mirror or satin.
Last count it stood at 7-4 for satin, but we can do a recount starting right now.
Voting over at the new News Thread posted.
Klick? Hmmm. Let me think about that.
Last count it stood at 7-4 for satin, but we can do a recount starting right now.
Voting over at the new News Thread posted.
Klick? Hmmm. Let me think about that.
Last edited:
Crazy things happen to steel at different temps. For instance, when the steel reaches the critical temperature for hardening, it becomes non magnetic. That critical temp is different for different alloys of steel. We could go way in depth on terms and phases of steel at different temps, but it would muddy the waters. I wanted to keep it pertinent to Ripster. I'm glad that you enjoyed it Jim.
Hey Mem, you're up early for a Saturday. G town run out of barley pop?
