Is my problem technique or boat trim or?

[adventuregirl]

This is an embarrassing question but I am new to canoeing having spent most of my time in a kayak. On a recent trip, I was paddling a 17’ Wenonah with two small children (they weigh together about 85 pounds and a week’s worth of gear that weighed in at about 75 - 100 pounds more. Try as I might, I simply could not keep the canoe facing forward when encountering strong headwinds. The boat would turn around to a stern first orientation forcing me to paddle backwards. I tried loading as much as I could into the bow (but wasn’t comfortable having both kids up there so there was one kid on bow seat and one in the middle). So my question is about whether this is just my poor paddling skills, boat trim or something else? Any ideas on a solution? I had thought (purists’ hearts be still) about some type of rudder or skeg. I’m planning a 10 day trip in the Spring and really don’t want to do the whole thing in reverse. Any advice?

 

[yellowcanoe]

Put as much gear as you can far forward.. Bow light into the wind never works.. You actually do better bow heavy in a headwind and the reverse true in a tailwind..

Technique would be more or less minimizing yaw but that isn't your problem

It would be also a help if you could paddle facing backwards on the bow seat. If you have a tractor seat or a thwart in back of the bow this does not work

17 feet is a lot of boat for a solo gal to handle. The skin friction is considerable. The usual thought is that the more horsepower you can supply the longer the boat you can handle. Usually boats for females in mind are a bit shorter and narrower. Chauvinism isn't involved in this concept

So throw as much heavy stuff as you can get in front of the bow kid

It may also help if your kids are of cargo size and not much help in paddling motors if you get a double blade. The last thing you can afford is to lose momentum with a correction phase of the stroke. Hit and switch is an option for single blade but it can be wet when switching hands.

 

[lowangle al]

In addition to what YC said I always paddle on the downwind side of the boat. Instead off going directly into the wind it usually hits from one side or the other. When it comes from the left paddle on the right and visa versa. This way you can paddle on one side longer w/o using correction strokes and only switching sides when the bow comes around and the wind is now on the other side.


Early in my paddling career I found a feather and tied it to my bow, it let me know real quick when the wind direction changed and I soon learned that was the time to change sides. When the wind direction changes a few extra strokes on the wrong side is enough to spin you around.


Keep at it and get a good instructional book, paddling into the wind in a canoe won't happen w/o some knowledge like in a kayak.

 

[sweeper]

I have a 17' WE Spirit II that likes to spin in the wind also, even using all the advice from above.

 

[lowangle al]

I have a 17' WE Spirit II that likes to spin in the wind also, even using all the advice from above.

I'm glad you mentioned that, cause I have a spirit II also and you need to be very attentive to the wind or it will spin around on you, lightly loaded anyway.

 

[wgiles]

I gather that you were paddling a tandem canoe solo from the rear seat facing forward. I don't know if you can paddle that particular canoe backwards sitting in the bow seat facing what used to be the stern. Your trim would be much simpler that way. As YC said, you can't always do that. I paddle my 16' Nova Craft Pal backwards solo or forwards tandem. Sitting in the bow seat backwards puts me much closer to the center of the canoe. Even so, the bow will come around in the wind if I don't put some weight in front of me. When I'm not carrying gear, I carry a couple of 20 Lb sacks of bird seed for ballast. Water jugs can also be used for ballast. With the weights that you mentioned, I would think that you could put enough weight forward to compensate for the wind. I wouldn't overdo it or the bow will want to go into the wind regardless.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Your problem is definitely trim and, if you are a novice, also probably technique. However, strong enough winds eventually defeat even the most well-trimmed and well-practiced canoeists.

You don't say where you were sitting or whether your seats are flat or tractor. Assuming you had flat seats and there were no obstructions, you could have just turned around on the seat and paddled "forward" into the wind instead of backward. This would have been a simpler-to-accomplish way to adjust trim than actually shifting around your kids or load.

For a more permanent way to control that big a canoe solo, you should be seated as close to center as possible so that the canoe is in trim when you are the sole occupant. This may require the installation of a center seat. A wide cane or web seat is my preference. You can then shift cargo into the bow or stern for wind conditions.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

To make matters worse, the Spirit II presents a lot of surface area above the waterline - especially in the bow. I wouldn't care to solo that in the wind, unless I was standing with a pole. Just not enough leverage otherwise. If I was stuck with soloing that boat under those conditions, I would probably do whatever necessary to be able to face the stern from the bow seat.

 

[Odyssey]

Adventuregirl, I'd like to think there's no such thing as an embarrassing question in this forum. Good question and positive answers.
I'd say unfortunate trim with difficult conditions challenging your technique. All can be corrected.
You need to be bow heavier in headwind. It would be ideal to be able to slide a pack fore or back in changing winds. Or maybe one of your young crew can slide their bottom forward or back amidship when necessary (remaining sitting). If possible search the lee of islands and shore out of the wind. Windy conditions call for PFDs for all.
Good luck and have fun next spring!

 

[Guest]

Excellent trim and bow backwards if possible advice above.

I will offer this; when your kids are big enough get the bowman a kid sized/kid weight paddle. By age 6 my sons could provide some much needed motor in the bow, which was especially helpful going into the wind.

There are strong opinions regarding single blades vs double blades in a canoe, and learning the “right” way vs the wrong way.

I got our boys short, lightweight double blades. Five or six foot long light plastic doubles from a cheap Coleman raft at first, later replaced by used WW kayak paddles (plentiful used hereabouts) cut down to a similarly manageable size and weight.

The little bow motor really was a help at times, and they recognized their own contribution, which helped make paddling more fun.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

There are strong opinions regarding single blades vs double blades in a canoe, and learning the “right” way vs the wrong way.

My strong opinion on that is......dash those opinions. I carry a double as a spare, any time I'm soloing where the wind might be a problem - opinions and traditions be danged. And I am generally a single blade guy.

 

[Srobocop]

I thought for the longest time my canoe was just bad in the wind (and in reality it is), but after being forced to paddle in the wind I finally just learned how to do it right. It's never easy, but it doesn't take me for a ride anymore. It's probably technique more than Trim. it sounds like you did everything you could with trim. Although maybe paddling from a different place in the boat would help too.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I thought for the longest time my canoe was just bad in the wind (and in reality it is), but after being forced to paddle in the wind I finally just learned how to do it right. It's never easy, but it doesn't take me for a ride anymore. It's probably technique more than Trim. it sounds like you did everything you could with trim. Although maybe paddling from a different place in the boat would help too.

A bit of an aside here.. Trim is very important.. Some years back I was certified by the American Canoe Association as an instructor at the highest level of canoeing... I had the technique down pat

I feeling puffed volunteered to carry heavy stuff that others could not fit in their ( ahem kayakkkkks) with my partner. We threw a couple of Coleman Stoves in the way up front bow.( You can see the failure of me to think!) Off we went. I was of course in the stern..

The boat wallowed around like being captained by a drunken sailor.. One of my kayakkkking buds asked if canoes always traveled with sterns four inches off the water.

Moving the stoves soothed the injury to my pride....

 

[Dagger]

I paddle my Spirit II mostly solo and at least twice a week. I don't know if you indeed paddled a Spirit II, but if you did, here is what I found paddling mine. I agree with all that stated, trim was your problem. An additional disadvantage in your case, the bow of the Spirit II is quite a bit taller than the stern, so the bow catches more wind, which contributed further to the problem you were having.

Solutions: I'll start with one that works great for many boats but not this one. Paddling backwards from the bow seat forward.
This boat features an asymmetrical hull, with different bow and stern rocker. The noteworthy bit of information here is, asymmetrical hulls typically don't paddle well "backwards". Moreover, if yours is like mine, you'd have to sit backward on your bow tractor seat (Yellow Canoe already commented on how uncomfortable that would be) and there is a thwart right behind the bow seat which would also be in your way.

Now to the two solutions I found work well. One, already mentioned above, is to put a lot of weight in the bow. In the situations like the one you described, even to the effect that the boat is bow heavy (canoe looks deeper in the water in the bow vs. the stern compared to the water line). For general paddling, just put enough weight in the bow to achieve a mostly flat (even) trim. I paddled my Spirit II that way, using dry-bags filled with water as weight in the bow. I am 210lbs and found roughly 30 - 40L of water, placed as far forward as possible, is adequate. However, that is a lot of weight handling, filling bags, lifting them into the canoe...etc. A solution I like better is the additional kneeling thwart I installed about half way between the stern seat and the center thwart. I now only need 20L of water in the bow for good trim, and sitting closer to the center increases boat maneuverability a lot! I paddle a lot with my 11 year old (about 80 pounds), and I find with her in the bow and me on the kneeling thwart, the boat has great basic trim. Glenn suggested installing a seat in the center of the boat. I did that also because I wanted the additional seating. I have paddled my canoe from that center seat, but it becomes so spirited, it takes a lot of control to paddle a straight line. Let it go out of true just a smidge and the canoe spins on a dime.

Good luck!

 

[Srobocop]

I mean in theory isn't paddling a canoe not properly trimmed just poor technique? (Sometimes I hate what I say too).

 

[Canotrouge]

I mean in theory isn't paddling a canoe not properly trimmed just poor technique? (Sometimes I hate what I say too).

YES

 

[yellowcanoe]

NO. Sometimes your path will vary direction with respect to the wind or the wind veers. Its not always possible to get out and move gear around,

 

[Canotrouge]

If your boat is trimmed "properly" it should work decently in most conditions. If the wind is so strong that you can't keep your boat going some what where you want to, that means that most likely, there could be descent waves on the body of water you're on... And trimming that canoe bow heavy enough to make it track into the wind w/o problems, means you will most likely take on water.... But of course these are all suppositions. On a trip this year on the Yukon River we had head winds that were in the 30-60km/h I was paddling solo in my 16' tripping canoe fully loaded with 10 days worth of gear. My daughter decided to jump ship to be with her cousin and uncle( good for him to have 2 good paddlers in his bow!!) since she switch boat on the water, I didn't go back to shore to rearrange the load. I was the only one paddling solo that day, and I was a good kilometre ahead of every body else, by knowing how to play the wind. The trim of my boat wasn't perfect, but it was ok. Different boat would have reacted differently for sure, but I like to use generic boat like a prospector style canoe that are descent in most situation but not great at any of them!

Your milage will vary I'm sure!!