It sure is a gorgeous place! I’m not sure when we’ll get back there, and not sure if I’ll take my own boat or try to rent one. Can a Floridian bring their unregistered manually propelled boat to NY? Or would I have to *shudder* put numbers on it?
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Happy Birthday, Stan "the Man" Musial (1920-2013)! ⚾🐦
Introduction from upstate/Adirondacks NY
- Thread starter Curlymoe
- Start date
Woodpuppy,
Any non motorized boat in NYS needs no registration.
You’re free to paddle any public waters as you wish.
I do happen to have a spare Kite that you could borrow on your next trip up here, assuming you could safely transport it.
Any non motorized boat in NYS needs no registration.
You’re free to paddle any public waters as you wish.
I do happen to have a spare Kite that you could borrow on your next trip up here, assuming you could safely transport it.
I'm in Troy but spend time in Lake George every week chasing grand kids. I try to steal away for a few hours whenever I'm there so I don't go too far. NW Bay, Luzerne, Jabe, Schroon River above Warrensburg, Spiers Falls. I'm looking for some new spots this season, scoped a few out over the winter - other stretches of Schroon and Hudson River, NYS canal system, Minerva Stream, Paradox Lake. Around Troy I often just run up to Grafton or to Peebles Island if I want to get the paddle wet; went to Grafton twice last weekend to start moving a little. Not a "canoetripper" per se, just love to be on the water.Curlymoe,
I'm late to the party, apparently...welcome to the forum.
From the sounds of it, you're somewhere near me, my address says Schenectady but my tax bill says Colonie.
Any specific ADK paddling plans for this season?
Silver Bay? I volunteered to chaperone a class trip there when my son was, uhmm, 13?(he's 32 now) Spent a week there...that was my first ever exposure as an adult to massive numbers of tweens, what an eye opener!!
And Jabe Pond, man, I haven't paddled there in a long time, I guess it's time for a return.
I just looked back on my photos, last time at Jabe was 2008!! I guess I definitely need to go back.
Here's a link to some pics with MDB and I (My Darling Bride):
And a teaser photo...apologies for the kayak, she's since switched to a Swift pack boat
Looks like the road to Jabe is still closed; last year DEC and Town of Hague had to bring in gravel to fix the worst spots; hopefully soon.
Stripperguy already answered you. No registration required for boats you only paddle in NY.
When I lived briefly in Ohio, i bought a grumman canoe. I had to put ugly registration numbers on it to paddle in that state. After I moved back to NY I scraped the numbers off, but their ugly outline is still visible. Don't forget that you must have. a readily available PFD for everyone on board any boat in NY. It must be actually worn only during the colder water months of 1Nov-1May,
Thank you both. I thought I remembered numbers on the Silver Bay canoes. Perhaps they were SB numbers rather than NY numbers.
@stripperguy that is an amazing offer! I’ll keep it in mind, but the reality is I’ll probably get very little time to myself. I do have Thule bars for the family van.
@yknpdlr no worries on the PFDs, I often paddle with my kids and can’t help them if I can’t help myself. And since I make them wear PFDs, it’s easier to enforce if I do too. We often take a throwable as well as a seat.
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Hi CM-
I picked up the upper Boreas. Very……very tippy… dumped it twice with out getting a paddle stroke in. I’m 6’ I noticed my center of gravity seems high for the boat. Any suggestions on maintaining stability. I’m reluctant to now use this for camping.
Thank you
DT
Unfortunately, my only experience is with sitting on the bottom style pack canoes so I can offer no insight. There are some FB groups, Solo Canoe, Solo Canoeist and Paddling in the Adirondacks which I know have upper Boreas owners; I'm sure you could get some guidance there. Did you pick up your Boreas at Essex Industries in Mineville? I've been wanting to drive up to see their new operation.
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Thank you… yes…I did go to Mineville. It’s a nice set up. Looks roomy…. Appears to be a good fit.
Cheers
DT
Cheers
DT
You’re the first person I’ve heard of having the kneeling version of the Boreas! I’ve been really curious about that canoe—I’d be interested to hear your other impressions, if you’ve managed to form any.
I don’t know how much experience you have, so you may have already thought of this, but putting a load in the canoe will reduce the tippiness. My solo canoes feel much more stable when loaded with camping gear than when empty. And I haven’t tried this myself, but I’ve heard of folks bringing along jugs of water or filling dry bags with water for ballast on day trips. Just make sure that your ballast isn’t denser than water (e.g. don’t use rocks) so that you don’t sink the canoe if you have an accident and swamp it.
If the Boreas is your first solo canoe, know also that that feeling of tippiness is something you’ll likely get used to the more you paddle it. That being said, the Boreas is unusually narrow, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it felt tippier—and were therefore harder to acclimate to—than the average solo canoe, and so getting used to it may take a little time. For context: a friend of mine let me try out his Northstar Trillium—which, at just 1” wider at the waterline than the Boreas, is almost as narrow—and it had so little initial stability that I felt like I couldn’t relax in it for even a moment! It’s much tippier than either of my own solos. My friend felt similarly about the Trillium when he first bought it, but he’s since told me he’s gotten used to it, and when we go paddling together, it’s noticeable that he seems more comfortable and confident paddling the Trillium than he did when it was new to him. So, you may just need to give the Boreas some time!
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Hi SF-
Thank you for the information! It’s very helpful to know I’m not experiencing anything wildly out of the norm. I will be taking your suggestions and applying them this weekend.
My initial impressions-
Initial stability- very low. This is indicated by the company. According to an article in Paddling, Simon said they were looking to create a faster vessel.
Secondary stability- moderate- you can easily articulate you hips with no feedback issues… very responsive. However as you slow… initial stability takes over and core needs to be engaged for balance (more so then my experience has thus far indicated in a sc) So stretching forward to allow leg relief is short lived… but manageable. However, at my height and current seat height (8.5 inches above hull to bottom of angled seat) …if you try to sit…. you’re swimming. This was verified by another user I spoke with as well. So this may limit time on water if a cramp occurs etc.
Tracking- this takes some finesse- it cuts well through the water… very little pressure depending on your stroke choices are needed… but the response is moderate… which makes sense with the design
Efficiency- highly efficient stroke/ distance - I haven’t been paddling much this season… was keen at the ease it travels with… that is nice. Wind and current (live on a river here)…not so much… but again… design related.
Calm water/ low wind… you’re laughing.
Current/ head wind- lots is correcting… again design… so choice of area use is key
Like many aquatic endeavors - slow is fast with this boat. I tend to muscle things… this is a paddler adjustment not the boat.
Mobility in the vessel- at this point… very challenging. For you cyclists out there… same principle applies here with body position and head movements and transference to the canoe.
Dumping it with its tendency to be top sensitive due to height / center of gravity etc….and I carry decent amount of shoulder weight, this will take time to resolve. Each paddle I learn a lot about the canoe.
I love to fish as well and camp…but I think fishing is seriously out of the picture on this canoe because initial stability being so low… but time will tell.
Thank you for the interest… if ever in the central ny area… and you want to try it.. let me know
DT
Thank you for your impressions of the Boreas! That sounds a lot like I remember my friend's Trillium feeling like, especially what you said about it feeling like your core needs to be engaged for balance when not moving. I suppose I should qualify my comments in my previous post by saying that I have no idea if that particular feeling of needing to constantly engage your core ever actually goes away or if you just get accustomed to it—like you said about your previous solo experience, I don't have that feeling in my own solos, and I'm not sure which interpretation my friend meant.
When you say that some aspects of the canoe's performance "make sense with the design," what do you mean? For example, what do you see as causing it to need lots of correction and feel less efficient in wind and current?
That's very generous of you to offer to let me try out the Boreas—thank you! I might just take you up on it sometime. Feel free to reach out if you're ever in the Hudson Valley and looking to go for a paddle.
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Hi SF-
No problem…
The low rocker and high sides catch wind I feel more that a lower cut boat, which is certainly the physics. But the ability to tack across the wind to effectively move in a head wind or downwind seems particularly slow due to the higher sides in this design, balance and the response is so fragile… it’s hard to explain, but the margin is very very narrow. Other boats I have had/ used compare favorably to this one in that respect. Which is why I mentioned the area of use for this boat is important.
It is sold as an intermediate to advanced vessel. But I would argue it’s closer to an advanced boat. That’s my view / opinion only however.
Personally… I’ve been spending about 3-4 hours each day trying to figure this boat out… it’s just an odd design for me… the stability is just not really there…even with ballast. I’m reasonably coordinated…and experienced… and the amount of balance needed is quite a lot. Even when you move a leg several inches under the seat to adjust for circulation… the boat wants to do its own thing… magnified.
So as a design for speed.. it think it’s design meets that… but it is sold as a touring boat… and I’m not convinced of that. The trade off is not balanced in my humble opinion. With some tweaking… I think this could be significantly improved.
My main issue is any… and I mean any movement… must be planned and deliberate to avoid dumping the boat. I have had several boats approach from aft and I had to quickly remember to place opposite hand on gunwhale to simply turn my head over the opposite shoulder for a glance… and only briefly.
I have managed to put a foot up to stretch it after and hour of paddling… and it is certainly a balancing plates kind of act. My wife even stated that it seems unruly and she was surprised at the challenge I was having to keep it stable.
The idea is great… unfortunately after a full week of daily paddling.. over 2+ hours each day…there is not much to report as improvements even with weight and fine tuning. It’s probably a “me” thing, but I really don’t think it should be this challenging.
I have reached out for tips. The tips are all the same as I have employed or offered up here or by my paddling buddies. Other than that nothing else.
I will be working on this as this was meant to fulfill some ADK solo camp trips this summer. I am not sure about that from a solo perspective due to the balance. I need some forgiveness if alone… and I’m not there. Maybe in another few weeks.
Thank you for your interest…. I would be very interested if you hear of other’s impressions… I have only found one other and they no longer own theirs.
I’m in the Albany region sometimes … I’ll give you heads up sometime
Cheers
DT
No problem…
The low rocker and high sides catch wind I feel more that a lower cut boat, which is certainly the physics. But the ability to tack across the wind to effectively move in a head wind or downwind seems particularly slow due to the higher sides in this design, balance and the response is so fragile… it’s hard to explain, but the margin is very very narrow. Other boats I have had/ used compare favorably to this one in that respect. Which is why I mentioned the area of use for this boat is important.
It is sold as an intermediate to advanced vessel. But I would argue it’s closer to an advanced boat. That’s my view / opinion only however.
Personally… I’ve been spending about 3-4 hours each day trying to figure this boat out… it’s just an odd design for me… the stability is just not really there…even with ballast. I’m reasonably coordinated…and experienced… and the amount of balance needed is quite a lot. Even when you move a leg several inches under the seat to adjust for circulation… the boat wants to do its own thing… magnified.
So as a design for speed.. it think it’s design meets that… but it is sold as a touring boat… and I’m not convinced of that. The trade off is not balanced in my humble opinion. With some tweaking… I think this could be significantly improved.
My main issue is any… and I mean any movement… must be planned and deliberate to avoid dumping the boat. I have had several boats approach from aft and I had to quickly remember to place opposite hand on gunwhale to simply turn my head over the opposite shoulder for a glance… and only briefly.
I have managed to put a foot up to stretch it after and hour of paddling… and it is certainly a balancing plates kind of act. My wife even stated that it seems unruly and she was surprised at the challenge I was having to keep it stable.
The idea is great… unfortunately after a full week of daily paddling.. over 2+ hours each day…there is not much to report as improvements even with weight and fine tuning. It’s probably a “me” thing, but I really don’t think it should be this challenging.
I have reached out for tips. The tips are all the same as I have employed or offered up here or by my paddling buddies. Other than that nothing else.
I will be working on this as this was meant to fulfill some ADK solo camp trips this summer. I am not sure about that from a solo perspective due to the balance. I need some forgiveness if alone… and I’m not there. Maybe in another few weeks.
Thank you for your interest…. I would be very interested if you hear of other’s impressions… I have only found one other and they no longer own theirs.
I’m in the Albany region sometimes … I’ll give you heads up sometime
Cheers
DT
I see. Thank you! It does seem odd that it’s so deep.
I’d be very frustrated if I were putting in as much time as you and still felt like I couldn’t trust the canoe. Wish I had a solution for you, but all I can do is pass on general advice you’ve heard elsewhere…
Hope you get the Boreas figured out! And maybe see you around! FYI, it’s a long way for a day trip, but if you’d be interested, folks in the Albany area are organizing a get-together for sometime this year:
Hudson Valley/Capital District gathering
Branching off another thread, it turns out there are many of us CanoeTrippers around the Hudson Valley and Albany area - the idea of a gathering was suggested, so I'm starting this for brainstorming purposes. I'm thinking a one-day affair, keep it local, simple, and informal (as opposed to a...
www.canoetripping.net
Hi there CTC,
I purchased a Boreas (upper) last year with exactly the same intentions. I have had the same experiences and impressions. I’ve canoed for about 40 years, and while I’m not an expert, I am fairly experienced. I find the hull to be very rounded which diminishes any initial or secondary stability. I have taken the seat out and am in the process of converting it from a hanging seat to a bottom mounted seat. I have tried sitting in the bottom of the boat and this really helps get my center of gravity low enough to provide acceptable stability. I contacted the company about options and they were willing to turn it into a Lower Boreas, but it involved removing the gunnels and decals, cutting the sides down, adding different gunnels, a bottom mount seat and new decals. I did not bother to ask the cost. It sounded like so much work that it would be cost prohibitive. So the gunnels may be a tad high for comfort once the seat is lowered, but we’ll see. I’m 6’ with long arms, so I hope it’s a suitable fix, because as it is, I just don’t think it’s a usable canoe (for fishing or for leisure).
I’d love to know what you’ve tried with yours since your original post.
JC
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Hi JC-
Welcome to the forum! Well… I dropped the seat about as low as I could with still maintaining the ability to remove my feet in case of a flip. It marginally helped. I did find that after a weeks trip canoeing in Quebec in a tandem in the stern with a seat very high and a bow partner who was very fidgety that when I returned home to the canoe it was somewhat better. But I eventually sold the canoe as I am also 6’ with long arms and long legs and it was never comfortable. I sold it with all the explanations of my experience with it just to be sure the next owner was aware. I since restored a wood canvas canoe and recently purchased an SRT from Dave Curtis at Hemlock Canoes. He is south of Rochester NY in Hemlock NY. Not too far from me. The SRT is a much much more ideal boat (for me) with a lot of thought in the design that makes it ideal for my pursuits. It is way more stable, robust and predictable. I have never felt twitchy in it, it has some forgiveness, and it’s outstanding in lakes, rivers and I have found very good in wavy and windy conditions. Some report they find it a challenge in windy conditions due to the high side, but the Upper Boreas has higher sides as well. I tried a lot of different suggestions for the upper Boreas, but it just did not fit my personal needs. I do wish you the best…and gladly be a sounding board for your thoughts. If you are ever in the central NY area… send me a note and you are welcome to try my SRT for a comparison.
Cheers
Drew (CTC)
