Hemlock SRT Ordered

[adkjoe]

Back in May of 2023 I paddled for the first time a Hemlock SRT and was immediately hooked. I had worked out a deal with Dave Curtis to buy this beautiful red “Demo” model come the fall. In June of 2023 I paddled for the first time a Curtis, Colden & Swift Dragonfly and fell in love. I wound up ordering a Dragonfly and bailing on the SRT. However a friend purchased the red SRT in the meantime and I’ve regretted not buying it ever since.

Working with Dave these past few weeks we have an order in for a new SRT come late July delivery and we are going retro. Bringing back the Curtis Canoe “Sunset Orange” color, so stay tuned!

 

[Jatfomike]

Congrats! Can’t wait to see pics

Mike

 

[tomo]

I, too, can't wait to see pics. I looked for about two years without seeing a used one come up anywhere near me, so I ended up ordering one in 2022. Its maiden voyage was a long solo in Wabakimi that summer, and I've loved it ever since. Can't wait to paddle it more in the years to come. Congrats to you!

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Bringing back the Curtis Canoe “Sunset Orange” color, so stay tuned!

Excellent boat and color choice. I love my orange Lotus Caper made for me by Mike Galt in 1986.

 

[adkjoe]

Congrats! Can’t wait to see pics

Mike

Thank you

 

[adkjoe]

I, too, can't wait to see pics. I looked for about two years without seeing a used one come up anywhere near me, so I ended up ordering one in 2022. Its maiden voyage was a long solo in Wabakimi that summer, and I've loved it ever since. Can't wait to paddle it more in the years to come. Congrats to you!

They do not pop up too often. Most likely will see Hemlock Canoe sell a used/demo model from time to time. Going to take it down the Upper Connecticut which splits Vermont & New Hampshire mid August.

 

[adkjoe]

Excellent boat and color choice. I love my orange Lotus Caper made for me by Mike Galt in 1986.

I'm a big fan of orange in a canoe...

 

[Sliding Focus]

Would you be willing to share why you regretted not buying the SRT after buying the Dragonfly, and how you feel that the canoes compare? I've paddled a Dragonfly and loved it, but am also curious about the SRT and haven't had a chance to try one. I'd like to own one of the two someday...

 

[adkjoe]

Would you be willing to share why you regretted not buying the SRT after buying the Dragonfly, and how you feel that the canoes compare? I've paddled a Dragonfly and loved it, but am also curious about the SRT and haven't had a chance to try one. I'd like to own one of the two someday...

I love my Dragonfly, it is my go to boat... I regret not buying the SRT because it is also a Harold Deal design like the DF. One thing I love about the SRT is the depth. I have size 13 feet so sliding in & out from under the seat is easier. I also have bad knees and the SRT allows me to sit & switch when I need to where I find that a bit more difficult in the DF. Like the DF the SRT is very playful and really responds well. In all honesty I have not spent all that much time in the SRT. I plan on taking it on a 50 mile river trip mid August.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

It is interesting for someone to have both a Dragonfly and an SRT. These are both "Harold Deal canoes." The Dragonfly was conceptualized and designed by Harold (formal design lofting by Dave Yost) specifically as a canoe FOR HIM, an advanced paddler, to race in the whitewater combined class, in which the paddler uses the same canoe for both the slalom competition and the downriver competition. Most folks I knew other than Harold who bought the Dragonfly from Curtis in the 1980's used them as solo whitewater canoes.

Harold himself began to use the Dragonfly in the 1980's for many of his solo Canadian wilderness trips, many of which he photographed and wrote up in paddling journals. So, the Dragonfly also got sort of a reputation as a solo tripping canoe, but I don't think Curtis ever sold that many overall.

The Dragonfly has now become a sort historic of cult canoe, having been resurrected for a few boats by Colden and now by Swift. Those owners apparently like it a lot.

Harold wasn't satisfied with the Dragonfly after about 10 years. He felt the Dragonfly had flaws as a tripping canoe for rivers and lakes, especially when loaded with gear, unlike a whitewater race in which the canoe is paddled unladen. He also felt the Dragonfly had flaws as a solo whitewater play canoe. Therefore, in the early 90's, Harold designed both the Shaman as a dedicated solo whitewater play canoe, and also the SRT as a tripping canoe that could be efficiently paddled on Canadian whitewater rivers (class 2-3) as well as the interconnected Canadian lakes. The central three feet of the Shaman and the SRT hulls are actually identical. Because the SRT has whitewater potential, Harold paddled a stock SRT once in the U.S. Nationals downriver canoe class on the lower Yough and came in second.

I've heard Dave Curtis summarize the two canoes thusly: "The Dragonfly was designed as whitewater racing canoe that can be used for tripping, whereas the SRT was designed as a tripping canoe that can be used for downriver whitewater racing."

When Colden began making the Dragonfly in 2011, Harold apparently was asked a lot about the differences. He was not really interested in doing that, being a sort of quiet and humble guy, but he did write in his May 25, 2011, canoe history, from which I quoted extensively in THIS THREAD, the following:

"My attention has been brought to recent internet chatter concerning the old Curtis Dragonfly, along with my name being tossed around on a number of occasions. In addition to inquiries I receive about the Hemlock SRT and Shaman, I’ve also been asked by individuals about my involvement with the Dragonfly.

. . . .

"It is likely that I paddled the Dragonfly for a wider range of uses and possibly have more hours in them than most anyone else and I'm certainly qualified to comment on it, but I’m not inclined to do that. I will say that I have not owned one in many years and do not miss paddling them."

For the rest of his life, as far as I know, Harold paddled his newer designs—the Shaman for serious whitewater play, and the SRT for long distance touring or simple day tripping on lakes and mild whitewater rivers.

Of course, we all prefer different boats, often at different points in our paddling careers. It wouldn't surprise me if someone liked the SRT more than the Dragonfly, or vice versa, or liked both equally. One of the perceived difficulties with the SRT among inexperienced paddlers is the initial tenderness, caused by the narrow waterline and rounded bottom, but Harold told me the Curtis Dragonfly was even more tender. Therefore, I suspect the SRT is more comfortable to paddle while sitting. In any event, if you can handle either canoe with confidence and skill, you are likely a pretty darn good paddler.

I suspect the SRT will also become a historic cult canoe once Dave Curtis stops making them.

 

[adkjoe]

It is interesting for someone to have both a Dragonfly and an SRT. These are both "Harold Deal canoes." The Dragonfly was conceptualized and designed by Harold (formal design lofting by Dave Yost) specifically as a canoe FOR HIM, an advanced paddler, to race in the whitewater combined class, in which the paddler uses the same canoe for both the slalom competition and the downriver competition. Most folks I knew other than Harold who bought the Dragonfly from Curtis in the 1980's used them as solo whitewater canoes.

Harold himself began to use the Dragonfly in the 1980's for many of his solo Canadian wilderness trips, many of which he photographed and wrote up in paddling journals. So, the Dragonfly also got sort of a reputation as a solo tripping canoe, but I don't think Curtis ever sold that many overall.

The Dragonfly has now become a sort historic of cult canoe, having been resurrected for a few boats by Colden and now by Swift. Those owners apparently like it a lot.

Harold wasn't satisfied with the Dragonfly after about 10 years. He felt the Dragonfly had flaws as a tripping canoe for rivers and lakes, especially when loaded with gear, unlike a whitewater race in which the canoe is paddled unladen. He also felt the Dragonfly had flaws as a solo whitewater play canoe. Therefore, in the early 90's, Harold designed both the Shaman as a dedicated solo whitewater play canoe, and also the SRT as a tripping canoe that could be efficiently paddled on Canadian whitewater rivers (class 2-3) as well as the interconnected Canadian lakes. The central three feet of the Shaman and the SRT hulls are actually identical. Because the SRT has whitewater potential, Harold paddled a stock SRT once in the U.S. Nationals downriver canoe class on the lower Yough and came in second.

I've heard Dave Curtis summarize the two canoes thusly: "The Dragonfly was designed as whitewater racing canoe that can be used for tripping, whereas the SRT was designed as a tripping canoe that can be used for downriver whitewater racing."

When Colden began making the Dragonfly in 2011, Harold apparently was asked a lot about the differences. He was not really interested in doing that, being a sort of quiet and humble guy, but he did write in his May 25, 2011, canoe history, from which I quoted extensively in THIS THREAD, the following:

"My attention has been brought to recent internet chatter concerning the old Curtis Dragonfly, along with my name being tossed around on a number of occasions. In addition to inquiries I receive about the Hemlock SRT and Shaman, I’ve also been asked by individuals about my involvement with the Dragonfly.

. . . .

"It is likely that I paddled the Dragonfly for a wider range of uses and possibly have more hours in them than most anyone else and I'm certainly qualified to comment on it, but I’m not inclined to do that. I will say that I have not owned one in many years and do not miss paddling them."

For the rest of his life, as far as I know, Harold paddled his newer designs—the Shaman for serious whitewater play, and the SRT for long distance touring or simple day tripping on lakes and mild whitewater rivers.

Of course, we all prefer different boats, often at different points in our paddling careers. It wouldn't surprise me if someone liked the SRT more than the Dragonfly, or vice versa, or liked both equally. One of the perceived difficulties with the SRT among inexperienced paddlers is the initial tenderness, caused by the narrow waterline and rounded bottom, but Harold told me the Curtis Dragonfly was even more tender. Therefore, I suspect the SRT is more comfortable to paddle while sitting. In any event, if you can handle either canoe with confidence and skill, you are likely a pretty darn good paddler.

I suspect the SRT will also become a historic cult canoe once Dave Curtis stops making them.

Dave Curtis has filled me on all of this and the history just fascinates me. I've been told before by other SRT paddlers that one does not need anything more than an SRT. If you ask me the SRT would be absolutely perfect at about 32#'s but I'm just knit picking now. I'm looking forward to taking on some adventures. She'll look good next to my Eaglet! And as far as Hemlock Canoe goes who knows what the future holds.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

If you ask me the SRT would be absolutely perfect at about 32#'s

I agree. Mine is an early one, which Dave admits he overbuilt in those days, and it probably weighs around 45 lbs. I tried to talk him into building a lighter one by eliminating all gel coat and some other fabric weight, but he's reluctant to do that. He's probably concerned that that would compromise the SRT structurally for use as a wilderness and whitewater tripping canoe.

 

[adkjoe]

It is interesting for someone to have both a Dragonfly and an SRT. These are both "Harold Deal canoes." The Dragonfly was conceptualized and designed by Harold (formal design lofting by Dave Yost) specifically as a canoe FOR HIM, an advanced paddler, to race in the whitewater combined class, in which the paddler uses the same canoe for both the slalom competition and the downriver competition. Most folks I knew other than Harold who bought the Dragonfly from Curtis in the 1980's used them as solo whitewater canoes.

Harold himself began to use the Dragonfly in the 1980's for many of his solo Canadian wilderness trips, many of which he photographed and wrote up in paddling journals. So, the Dragonfly also got sort of a reputation as a solo tripping canoe, but I don't think Curtis ever sold that many overall.

The Dragonfly has now become a sort historic of cult canoe, having been resurrected for a few boats by Colden and now by Swift. Those owners apparently like it a lot.

Harold wasn't satisfied with the Dragonfly after about 10 years. He felt the Dragonfly had flaws as a tripping canoe for rivers and lakes, especially when loaded with gear, unlike a whitewater race in which the canoe is paddled unladen. He also felt the Dragonfly had flaws as a solo whitewater play canoe. Therefore, in the early 90's, Harold designed both the Shaman as a dedicated solo whitewater play canoe, and also the SRT as a tripping canoe that could be efficiently paddled on Canadian whitewater rivers (class 2-3) as well as the interconnected Canadian lakes. The central three feet of the Shaman and the SRT hulls are actually identical. Because the SRT has whitewater potential, Harold paddled a stock SRT once in the U.S. Nationals downriver canoe class on the lower Yough and came in second.

I've heard Dave Curtis summarize the two canoes thusly: "The Dragonfly was designed as whitewater racing canoe that can be used for tripping, whereas the SRT was designed as a tripping canoe that can be used for downriver whitewater racing."

When Colden began making the Dragonfly in 2011, Harold apparently was asked a lot about the differences. He was not really interested in doing that, being a sort of quiet and humble guy, but he did write in his May 25, 2011, canoe history, from which I quoted extensively in THIS THREAD, the following:

"My attention has been brought to recent internet chatter concerning the old Curtis Dragonfly, along with my name being tossed around on a number of occasions. In addition to inquiries I receive about the Hemlock SRT and Shaman, I’ve also been asked by individuals about my involvement with the Dragonfly.

. . . .

"It is likely that I paddled the Dragonfly for a wider range of uses and possibly have more hours in them than most anyone else and I'm certainly qualified to comment on it, but I’m not inclined to do that. I will say that I have not owned one in many years and do not miss paddling them."

For the rest of his life, as far as I know, Harold paddled his newer designs—the Shaman for serious whitewater play, and the SRT for long distance touring or simple day tripping on lakes and mild whitewater rivers.

Of course, we all prefer different boats, often at different points in our paddling careers. It wouldn't surprise me if someone liked the SRT more than the Dragonfly, or vice versa, or liked both equally. One of the perceived difficulties with the SRT among inexperienced paddlers is the initial tenderness, caused by the narrow waterline and rounded bottom, but Harold told me the Curtis Dragonfly was even more tender. Therefore, I suspect the SRT is more comfortable to paddle while sitting. In any event, if you can handle either canoe with confidence and skill, you are likely a pretty darn good paddler.

I suspect the SRT will also become a historic cult canoe once Dave Curtis stops making them.

Dave Curtis has filled me on all of this and the history just fascinates me. I've been told before by other SRT paddlers that one does not need anything more than an SRT. If you ask me the SRT would be absolutely perfect at about 32#'s but I'm just knit picking now. I'm looking forward to taking on some adventures. She'll look good next to my Eaglet! And as far as Hemlock Canoe goes who knows what the future holds.

I agree. Mine is an early one, which Dave admits he overbuilt in those days, and it probably weighs around 45 lbs. I tried to talk him into building a lighter one by eliminating all gel coat and some other fabric weight, but he's reluctant to do that. He's probably concerned that that would compromise the SRT structurally for use as a wilderness and whitewater tripping canoe.

I'm hoping mine comes in at about 38#? But we will see...

 

[Alan Gage]

"It is likely that I paddled the Dragonfly for a wider range of uses and possibly have more hours in them than most anyone else and I'm certainly qualified to comment on it, but I’m not inclined to do that. I will say that I have not owned one in many years and do not miss paddling them."

This reminds me of a response from Charlie Wilson on some paddling forum a few years back where multiple posters were extoling the virtues of the old CJ solo and how great it paddled and how it was disappointing that it wasn't still made, etc. Charlie's response was along the lines of "It's not like we stopped making it because it was the best solo canoe ever designed."

Alan

 

[adkjoe]

I, too, can't wait to see pics. I looked for about two years without seeing a used one come up anywhere near me, so I ended up ordering one in 2022. Its maiden voyage was a long solo in Wabakimi that summer, and I've loved it ever since. Can't wait to paddle it more in the years to come. Congrats to you!

Thank you and congrats on getting a new one.

 

[NoelCanoeDad]

Hello, It is interesting how where you paddle and how you paddle makes such a difference on the boat you are drawn to. My first true solo canoe was the SRT. I turned out to not be the paddler I thought I was at that time and went swimming 6 times that summer. LOL. I later found a Curtis Nomad in need of restoration. I had more sentimental attachment to the nomad because I restored in back from the brink of demise. I did not spend much time in the nomad before I sold the SRT. At the time I also purchased a Hemlock Eaglet so felt something had to be sold. Upon spending sometime paddling the nomad and eaglet and improving my paddling skills I quickly realized I made a big mistake. I do not do long over nights needing room for gear. I am a Western PA down river paddler, paddling day trips up to class III. I miss the SRT but another reason I sold it was because of something Dave Curtis told me at the WPASCR a few years ago. ”The SRT is meant to be loaded with gear, if you are padding day trips on local rivers you should still ad some weight.” I never have much weight in my boat for the types of paddling I do. So that leads me to the Dragonfly. Many people in my paddling circles have been paddling the Dragonfly for over 30 years. I now own 4 dragonfly’s one from each manufacturer that ever made one, and a hybrid thing I found dusty in a barn that is now, with the help of Dave Curtis a brand new old stock canoe. Even though I loved the Nomad because of the love that went into fixing it, it has now been sold and the money went toward purchasing a Bell Wildfire because it too fits where I paddle and how I paddle. Every time my wife asks me ”why do you have so many canoes” I have to answer you have to paddle ones you don’t like to know which ones you do like. If I was a lake paddler the nomad would sill be in my fleet but I am a river guy. If I would have known then what I know now I would not have sold the SRT. I may own an SRT again some day if my paddling grows into more tripping, especially if ADKJoe invites me on some trips but for now the Dragonfly is hands down my go to boat. Thanks Dustin

 

[Crazy Trout Craft (CTC)]

I love my Dragonfly, it is my go to boat... I regret not buying the SRT because it is also a Harold Deal design like the DF. One thing I love about the SRT is the depth. I have size 13 feet so sliding in & out from under the seat is easier. I also have bad knees and the SRT allows me to sit & switch when I need to where I find that a bit more difficult in the DF. Like the DF the SRT is very playful and really responds well. In all honesty I have not spent all that much time in the SRT. I plan on taking it on a 50 mile river trip mid August.

Congrats! That will look amazing! I also have an SRT- I removed 1 inch from the drops so I can get my feet in and out easier and made paddling with my torso higher- more maneuverable - as a single stick paddler and since I have long arms, its easier on my shoulders when paddling for long bouts and the repetitive movement.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

something Dave Curtis told me at the WPASCR a few years ago. ”The SRT is meant to be loaded with gear, if you are padding day trips on local rivers you should still ad some weight.”

As an SRT paddler for 15 years, I don't agree with this.

Sure, the SRT is just about better than any 15' solo canoe for loaded tripping because it is deep.

However, that does not mean it has to be loaded to be an excellent day paddling canoe. Probably 95% of my SRT paddling has been day paddling with no gear other than an extra paddle or two and a day pack. An empty SRT makes a fine day tripping canoe for class 2-3 whitewater paddling because it is deep and buoyant, for twisty creek paddling because it can be turned sufficiently easily, and for fast lake paddling because it buoys up on a narrow waterline.

Also consider that paddlers of all skill levels have paddled big tandems solo forever, and still do, without any artificial gear loading for day paddles.

If Dave meant that an SRT will feel somewhat more stable for nervous paddlers when loaded with some weight for day paddling, that may be so, but that's just covering up a symptom of insufficient paddling skills. Become a better paddler, with training and experience, and you won't feel nervous in narrow waterline recreational canoes.

Here's a photo of a day trip by three SRTs on the twisty Oswego River in the New Jersey Pine Barrens. They were paddled essentially empty by three paddlers of various weights: Harold Deal, Paul Conklin (Conk) and me.

 

[Sliding Focus]

Thanks for your replies, adkjoe, Glenn, and Dustin!

...a hybrid thing I found dusty in a barn that is now, with the help of Dave Curtis a brand new old stock canoe.

That is a gorgeous canoe—I love the way it looks with scuppered gunwales! I'd be curious to hear more of the story behind it—why do you call it a hybrid, and how did you come to find it in a barn?

Harold wasn't satisfied with the Dragonfly after about 10 years. He felt the Dragonfly had flaws as a tripping canoe for rivers and lakes, especially when loaded with gear, unlike a whitewater race in which the canoe is paddled unladen. He also felt the Dragonfly had flaws as a solo whitewater play canoe. Therefore, in the early 90's, Harold designed both the Shaman as a dedicated solo whitewater play canoe, and also the SRT as a tripping canoe that could be efficiently paddled on Canadian whitewater rivers (class 2-3) as well as the interconnected Canadian lakes. The central three feet of the Shaman and the SRT hulls are actually identical. Because the SRT has whitewater potential, Harold paddled a stock SRT once in the U.S. Nationals downriver canoe class on the lower Yough and came in second.

Out of curiosity, are you able to elaborate on the ways in which Harold Deal felt the Dragonfly was flawed and how the SRT improved on it?

Like the DF the SRT is very playful and really responds well.

Would you be willing to elaborate on this? The thing I’m most interested in is how responsive/playful the SRT feels compared to the Dragonfly (and also compared to the Bell Yellowstone Solo, which I own). The Dragonfly’s responsiveness amazed me—it felt like all I had to do was think about where I wanted the canoe to go and, like magic, I would be there. I paddled the Dragonfly back-to-back with a Wildfire (which felt almost identical to my Yellowstone Solo), and it made the Wildfire feel sluggish—the Dragonfly rotated more quickly when I wanted to turn, seemed to accelerate faster, and had better glide—and to top it off, it was easier to keep tracking in a straight line, too! I’ve never felt so connected to a canoe—it was exhilarating!—and I am curious whether the SRT might feel similar. Without having paddled it, I imagine that the SRT's playfulness might not quite match the Dragonfly's (being longer and having differential rocker), but if it were close—or, at least, if it were more responsive than the Wildfire/Yellowstone Solo—some of its other qualities might make it an ideal compromise for me.

Glenn, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the above, too—in this post, you wrote:

I like having both the Wildfire and SRT -- the former being more maneuverable and fun for freestyle day play. For that reason, you may want to keep the Yellowstone, at least for a while, even if you get an SRT.

...which makes it sound to me like you feel the SRT is less responsive than the Wildfire—do I understand that correctly?

One of the perceived difficulties with the SRT among inexperienced paddlers is the initial tenderness, caused by the narrow waterline and rounded bottom, but Harold told me the Curtis Dragonfly was even more tender. Therefore, I suspect the SRT is more comfortable to paddle while sitting.

This is really interesting to hear! The Dragonfly’s lack of initial stability seems like it could be a big downside: it didn’t bother me when I tried one, but I imagine that it might get old on a multi-day trip, especially if I wanted to sit or needed to get in or out of the canoe in a tricky location, e.g. to cross a beaver dam or at a rocky landing. Like you say, I’ve read that the SRT is very tender too, but if it is even only a little bit less tender than the Dragonfly, then that might make a big difference. But, I'm also not sure how big a deal this really would be—I imagine that I'd adjust to either canoe with practice, and on a trip, I'd have a load to help settle the canoe. Compared to other canoes, how much of a challenge do you find it to get in and out of the SRT in places with awkward footing?

 

[carpenter]

It is a good point to reinforce - initial tenderness does not mean that you are going to constantly tip a canoe. It is the response to changes in position. A tender boat is a responsive boat, find and maintain your balance points and the boat will reward you for it...just keep your head in the boat - literally and figuratively. My understanding is that initial stability is whether you feel like you are going to tip, secondary stability keeps you from tipping or not.
My sense is that seat height relates to similar issues - a higher seat creates a pivot point further from the water, less stable, but a more vertical and powerful stroke, more responsive. Racing kayaks have higher seats as performance expectations increase, hulls narrow and become faster but less stable.
As everyone recommends "try before you buy". Harder to ignore with "performance" oriented boats because they do have a steeper learning curve.
I had a very humbling moment after a summer of paddling 25' North canoes with a crew of eight. A friend showed up with a pretty little 14' Chestnut mid-trip, I jumped in and immediately flipped her, back in, flipped it again. Not a particularly tender canoe normally but a significant departure from the barges we were paddling.