Gunnels and Screws

[Canotrouge]

Hey Jim, do you want deck caps for those vinyl rails?

I may have one (saddly, just one). In this photo

P5130009 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Happy to trace around the lip and mail you the tracing, and if it fits mail you the deck cap.

I also have a pair of Mohawk deck plates for a blunt stemmed WW canoe. Those are ugly brown and a little scraped on the tips, but could be cut down to deck cap size and painted black

I don't think that cap is nearly big enough for the nexus, the cap on the nexus are the size of a small garbage can lid hahaha.

 

[Foxyotter]

What about those rivets you just mentioned Jim? Rivets are often used for composite and aluminum gunnels but I can mostly only see benefits over screws. Smaller holes, lighter and more similar to bolts then screws.
If you glue on a set of gunnels there is no way to remove and fix. I would not want a manufacturer to glue on gunnels because most canoes at some point get neglected, abused or hopefully used heavily eventually needing gunnel replacement. They should seal the wood with a minimum three coats epoxy and all holes sealed with mechanical attachment.

Strength, weight and rot resistance are probably better for integrated or glued gunnels but is the added performance significantly better then screws, rivets etc. All aspects of boats has inherent trade offs and we all value them differently.

 

[Canotrouge]

What about those rivets you just mentioned Jim? Rivets are often used for composite and aluminum gunnels but I can mostly only see benefits over screws. Smaller holes, lighter and more similar to bolts then screws.
If you glue on a set of gunnels there is no way to remove and fix. I would not want a manufacturer to glue on gunnels because most canoes at some point get neglected, abused or hopefully used heavily eventually needing gunnel replacement. They should seal the wood with a minimum three coats epoxy and all holes sealed with mechanical attachment.

Strength, weight and rot resistance are probably better for integrated or glued gunnels but is the added performance significantly better then screws, rivets etc. All aspects of boats has inherent trade offs and we all value them differently.

All the aluminum and vinyl gunnels I replaced and that is a lot, the rivet hole is always bigger than the screw hole(most wooden gunnel are installed with #6 screws and sometimes #8 when the decks are recessed between inwhale.... So.....

As for sealing with at least 3 layers of epoxy, I'm not sure that would actually lengthen the life of the gunnels, the problem with epoxy and thick varnish is unless you baby your boat and you paddle lakes only, you will at some point put dings in the finish and that it where moisture will seep in and a lot of time you will not notice it until it is too late, every where you get moisture infiltration on a mostly sealed piece of wood, that wood might not dry properly before you seal it back.... Then you are in real trouble. Oil finish is a way better way to maintain your gunnels, you will have to do it more often, but it takes about minutes and you are done!! I will be trying Genuine light pine tar when I get my order in and see if that will be superior, it has been used in wooden ships for a long time and on below ground wood like fence post etc!

 

[Jim Dodd]

Thanks Mike McCrea for the generous Offer !

As Canotrouge stated. They Won't fit the Nexus. We tried to find some caps, but no luck !

I was fortunate to find a second hand set of rails that are of the Bell profile.

Bolted a short thwart close to the nose. I'm not a real White Water guy, this will do.

Again Thanks !

Looked at the old gunnels today. They actually looked pretty good, until I examined the hull side, and the rot.

Suspect there are a lot of Screwed on gunnels that also look good from the outside !

Maybe those Screwers should look theirs over closely before the season really gets under way.

 

[Canotrouge]

Thanks Mike McCrea for the generous Offer !

As Canotrouge stated. They Won't fit the Nexus. We tried to find some caps, but no luck !

I was fortunate to find a second hand set of rails that are of the Bell profile.

Bolted a short thwart close to the nose. I'm not a real White Water guy, this will do.

Again Thanks !

Looked at the old gunnels today. They actually looked pretty good, until I examined the hull side, and the rot.

Suspect there are a lot of Screwed on gunnels that also look good from the outside !

Maybe those Screwers should look theirs over closely before the season really gets under way.

For sure they look good on the outside and not so good in the inside.... Just don't look inside!!

 

[scoutergriz]

Jim what I used to do with the menagerie of donated, mostly out of production boats the Scouts had originally was to cut and tape a piece of oiled 3/4 ply IN the nose tight to the edge, tape off the outside where the cap would end, slap a little vaseline on the hull (as a release agent) then build up a few layers of left over fiberglass over the whole mess. after hardening you just pop off the cap, grind it to shape, and drill and rivet it back on. Presto- instant removable caps! you can even get fancy by wrapping some shaped 1/2" dowel in the glass for a built- in handle.
Tag and keep the template for the next time a scout rams the canoe into a dock!

 

[Mihun09]

Hey Jim, do you put the groundsheet inside or under the tent?

 

[Canotrouge]

Hey Jim, do you put the groundsheet inside or under the tent?

I bought we were supposed to do both... And a tarp over the tent fly...

 

[Jim Dodd]

Hey Jim, do you put the groundsheet inside or under the tent?

HA HA HA !! That is why I love this Site !

Hilarity Abounds !

I let the Weather dictate that ! On two occasions I Was glad it was on the inside !!!

My favorite tent these days ? Has a plastic floor, A few years ago on AWARE. We had wind and a heavy rain ! I was one of the few that had a dry tent inside.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Has any body seen those new canoes ? No Wood, No Screws, Light as a feather, and you can pound on them with a Hammer.

Times are a changing ! Technology is making wood and screws Obsolete !

You screwers better stock up on Gunnels and Screws !

Have a great weekend ! Check those gunnels ! And Get out on the water !

Jim

 

[memaquay]

Ha ha, the innie outie debate! Another poll?

 

[Alan Gage]

I like wood gunnels. I find it more traditional. Just like the 30/30 I carry with me in bear country. What kind of gun do you guys carry? Or are you one of those weenie bear hugging hippes that doesn't pack heat?

Alan

 

[alsg]

I like wood gunnels. I find it more traditional. Just like the 30/30 I carry with me in bear country. What kind of gun do you guys carry? Or are you one of those weenie bear hugging hippes that doesn't pack heat?

Alan

I'm packing heat...bear spray. That stuff is definitely hot (DAMHIK)!

 

[memaquay]

Alan, come on now, you trying to turn this into the ultimate debate thread by bringing up bear defence, lol. (12 gauge pump with 18 inch barrel and slugs for me)

 

[Odyssey]

Why screw with a bear when you can just set a glue trap?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR8dqCCZ_IY

 

[Jim Dodd]

Mem we agree ! Mark that on the callendar !

A 12 ga, with slugs, over a 30-30 anyday !

That Glue trap experiment was cool ! Yup ! Glue wins again !

 

[Guest]

I don't think that cap is nearly big enough for the nexus, the cap on the nexus are the size of a small garbage can lid hahaha.

Jim, maybe these, painted black, or even just the front few inches cut off these as a deck cap, leaving the carry thwarts?

P5150001 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

You might need to cut them down to eliminate the awkwardly formed vinyl gunwale channel

P5150003 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The front half of those Mohawk WW canoe deck plates has no gunwale channel.

P5150004 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Happy to mail you a tracing of the bulbous end and deck plate angle. I have no intention of rebuilding another WW boat, and don’t foresee any futher use for them.

 

[Canotrouge]

Jim, maybe these, painted black, or even just the front few inches cut off these as a deck cap, leaving the carry thwarts?

P5150001 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

You might need to cut them down to eliminate the awkwardly formed vinyl gunwale channel

P5150003 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The front half of those Mohawk WW canoe deck plates has no gunwale channel.

P5150004 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Happy to mail you a tracing of the bulbous end and deck plate angle. I have no intention of rebuilding another WW boat, and don’t foresee any futher use for them.

Maybe, But I think they are too much like a "V" and not enough like "U" I will take a picture of mine and post it here today!

 

[Canotrouge]

This is why the deck on a Bell Nexus look like!!

 

[Jim Dodd]

Thanks again Mike And Canotrouge !!

Just hoping a set of Caps will turn up !

For now the Grab handle will do !

Thanks ! This Site is so AWESOME !

Jim