Cross Bow Draw

[PaddlingPitt]

I learned to canoe, beginning in 1987, in the Vancouver area. The best paddlers and instructors at the time were strongly opposed to the cross bow draw for tandem paddlers, primarily because it put both paddles on the same side of the boat, nearly as frowned upon as gunwale-grabbing. The bottom line was that you can do anything you want from your current paddle position. We even used prys, rather than cross bow draws to leave a strong current into an eddy. Some canoeing literature at the time said that prying into an eddy was too forceful, and could result in a capsize -- the cross bow draw was more stable. It must be said, that prying into an eddy required the bow paddler to consciously lean away from the pry, but that's what we did. Never capsized. One time, On a day trip with our canoe club, we were joined by some guest tandem paddlers. The bow paddler performed a Cross. bow draw. What the heck was that all about, Kathleen and I wondered. Veteran members of the club nodded knowingly, and told us that the guests were "from Ontario. The cross bow draw is an eastern stroke. We don't do that out here in British Columbia." Seemed like an extreme position to take. Heck, even a quick Goon Stroke, or Stern Pry, can occasionally be useful or necessary in certain river situations. But to this day, neither Kathleen nor I do Cross Bow Draws when paddling tandem.

 

[PaddlingPitt]

I accidentally posted while still editing. Sorry for the grammatical errors, and inconsistent capitalization of strokes.

 

[Terry Q]

You are giving up the most powerful and effective stroke that the bow paddler could possibly make.

In my world, the bow paddler is the captain of the boat and initiates all turns and maneuvers, the stern paddler just makes complementary strokes to complete the maneuver. The bow paddler is fifteen feet further down the river with an unobstructed view.

There is no stronger or more responsive stroke for sliding your canoe over to avoid a big rock when cruising down a river. The cross bow draw is a quick bracing stroke which will keep you upright, and looses its effectiveness after four or five seconds. no need to worry about both paddles being on the same side of the canoe. It only works when you are going faster then the current, and the faster you are going, the more effective is the stroke. You can easily slide a canoe sideways three or four feet to avoid an obstacle with just a quick two or three second cross bow draw.





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[yellowcanoe]

Never thought of it as an Eastern thing at all.. We teach it to beginning paddlers.. Bow people going downstream need to know three strokes..Forward, draw and cross draw.. The pry is a pitlfully weak stroke that quickly loses effectiveness and is actually difficult to do well. Aside from the counter lean you have to start it under the boat. And the counter lean means you pull up on water as you continue the pry.. A cross draw never pulls up on water.

It is a hard stroke to do well as it requires torso rotation and too long a paddle can make crossing the boat very hard.

The old saw about never paddle on the same side of the boat is just that..An old saw.. Many times in a strong wind we both find ourselves paddling on the windward side of the boat..A boat drifting over a downwind paddle is an invitation to a bath.

 

[dougd]

I use a cross draw a lot when paddling solo in WW, have been for years. Think I learned it out of not wanting to swamp in a long wave train once and it just stuck. I guess whatever helps float your boat and works is OK.

 

[PaddlingPitt]

Thanks for your responses, which I was generally expecting, sort of like paddling solo from the stern in a tandem boat!

I should clarify that I am referring to a stationary pry. Not the pry where one is prying off the gunwale. There is only a slight lean away, so there is no real pulling up of water. The stationary pry is braced against the gunwale, and the paddle does not begin under the boat. In our experience, the stationary pry, done well, moves the boat quite nicely.

I agree completely that the bow paddler initiates the immediate corrections in a rapid. If Kathleen does a pry or draw in the bow, I unquestioningly respond withe the complementary stoke. Usually we are by the rock in a second or two. If the boat is slowing before we pass the rock, Kathleen could go into a sculling pry, but that is even a more difficult stroke. It has usually not been necessary.

I too, Doug, have used the cross bow draw when paddling solo, particularly to initiate an eddy turn on the off side. In fact, my manual for the Recreational Canoeing Association of BC, refers to the stroke as cross bow draw solo. There is no stroke in the manual called cross bow draw tandem. In the description of the cross bow draw solo, the manual says, "Under some circumstances, the cross bow draw has an advantage in tandem paddling. The paddle can be kept near the surface to avoid jamming in rocks when going through shallow rapids."

Now here is the interesting part, where the manual further explains "Beginners tend to depend on the cross bow draw rather than the more technically demanding pry stroke. To aid in the development of the pry stroke the cross bow draw should not be taught until some skill at the pry has been achieved."

Wow. Don't take that the wrong way. I am not saying that the way BC taught canoeing 20 years ago was correct. It was just how I learned and developed my skills. And I have been served well. But maybe there's a better way, and maybe BC has changed. I should probably have developed a tandem cross bow draw for greater paddling flexibility. I liked your suggestion, yellowcanoe, of both paddlers paddling on the windward side in a strong wind. Canoe being blown over a paddle probably brings capsize. I might try that, but don't tell my mentors in BC!

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

Unless the boat is "moving" relative to the current a stationery stroke will do nothing.

This means that the paddle has to be in the back flow of the eddy. Not a problem if you are trying to get into an onside (bow) eddy but on the off side the canoe really has to be a long way in before a bow pry would have any effect. It's likely that the majority of the turning would have already been initiated by the friction on the hull.

I see a lot of paddlers stick the blade in too soon and the force of the current on the blade just helps push the way down river and they end up entering the eddy too far down instead of right up by the obstruction.

Also note it should be the hull that is leaning not the paddler. A bit of lean is OK but really you should try to keep your head between the gunwales.

How old is that manual?

 

[PaddlingPitt]

Yes, the boat has to be moving faster than the current, which it usually is. When approaching an eddy, we are powering hard. Even descending a rapid we are normally putting in forward strokes. And yes, it takes a while to know when to plant the pry when entering an eddy. All I can say is that the stanionay pry has served us well.

My manual is old. 1999. I am not in BC anymore, so can't comment on more recent versions.

 

[Abenakiregion]

It becomes somewhat counter intuitive to stick a paddle blade down and hold it in the rock gardens I usually find myself in.

 

[PaddlingPitt]

A little bit of an aside here. A year ago we adopted a rescue Siberian husky (Shadow). He vocalizes a lot, but does not bark. He constantly chases/hunts squirrels, chipmunks, shrews and voles. Never barks at them, and doesn't even warn them with any kind of vocalization. We have read that huskys do not bark.

About 20 minutes ago we heard animated barking out in his yard. Must be an intruder dog, we thought. We ran out to see Shadow barking furiously, and jumping at the end of his line. A little investigation revealed a skunk hiding in the three-sided septic tank cover. Interesting that Shadow recognized the skunk as a different kind of small animal, and wanted it to leave his yard.

 

[yellowcanoe]

ah the stationary bow pry with boat heel. its a nifty way to approach a boulder garden blocking your way to the portage in flat water.
i use it all the time solo or tandem but not in moving water.
The reason is it has no immmediate back up brace
In FreeStyle it's termed a wedge
Beginning paddlers call it an ejection move as often they find themselves in the water doing a fish count

Getting the angle right is key. too perpendicular and out you go

 

[goonstroke]

It's cool that there are enough different ways to move a canoe that there's room for regional dialects. I learned in the east, and I love a good cross draw, especially from a decisive bow paddler. No need for conversation, the stroke tells you where the rock is.

I'm not in the bow very often but next time I am I think I'll work on my face plant stationary pry, assuming the water is warm.

Here's the back of a t-shirt from the local (Maine) canoe racing club.

 

[Prospector16]

One only needs to watch a young teenaged Paul Mason in Path of the Paddle to see that the Cross Bow Draw is one of the most amazing strokes there is. It is honestly one of the most beautiful and elegant things I have ever seen in a canoe. I can't do it yet myself - my 50-something body with about 30 extra pounds does not twist in that way. This alone is a reason for me to aspire to lose 15 or 20 lbs.

On a canoe trip with Scouts in summer of 2017 I saw one of the other Scout leaders do it several times - again one of the most amazingly beautiful things I have seen in a canoe.

Sorry I cannot really debate the actual technical aspects of the stroke since I cannot actually do it yet, but I sure am jealous of those who can!

 

[PaddlingPitt]

No doubt that the tandem cross bow draw is an impressive stroke. That does not mean, however, that a stationary pry can not be (equally?) effective. I am enjoying this post. So far, though, no likes. I think I will pour another glass of wine to drown my sorrows.

By the way, I really like this site. It seems so social and down to earth. It's fun!

 

[lowangle al]

I do the cross bow draw quite a bit, mostly from the stern seat with a long paddle.

 

[scoutergriz]

Way back in the early days of WW (60's) we called that stationary pry a "post" because it was precisely that- like driving a post into the water, with the resulting wet exit or broken paddle if it caught! While the pry is essentially a static move, the cross bow is more of a dynamic move and allows far superior control because you are controlling the forces, not the river, and have the ability to change those forces instantly with a simple change of pitch or angle. With the pry, the pitch is fixed and angle of attack is limited by proximity of the gunwale.
While the post CAN prevent a flip or move a canoe sharply away from an obstacle in certain situations (forces in the same direction), a crossbow, can deal with forces in all directions and is a much more controllable move in moving water

 

[Alan Gage]

I rarely get to paddle tandem and when I do it's usually in the stern. But I love it when I get to paddle bow if for no other reason than to use the cross bow draw.

I learned it when I was into racing for a few years. Amazing how those teams can spin an 18.5' tippy boat with no rocker around a bouy.

Alan

 

[PaddlingPitt]

This has all been very interesting for me. Please know that I am neither defending the approach of Stationary Prys in BC, nor criticizing the tandem Cross Bow Draw. Most of the active posters on this site did not learn canoeing in BC. I assumed you would be proponents of the Cross Bow Draw. I wanted to hear your response. I certainly accept the usefulness of the tandem Cross Bow Draw. The Stationary Pry has also served me well throughout my paddling life. In truth, though, it is Kathleen who has mastered the stroke much better than I have. In her hands, the stroke has never let us down.

I have been going through older topics to see what has been discussed previously. There is one topic that I have not noticed. If for no reason other than heated controversy, what is the general attitude about taking firearms on wilderness canoe trips? Shot gun or rifle? Do firearms make one safer or more vulnerable? I am thinking here of bears, not the Deliverance kind of canoe tripping. Has this been discussed before?





This topic occasionally came up at RCABC instructor meetings, but the most vocal and influential people never wavered.

 

[PaddlingPitt]

I am having trouble editing my previous post. The last sentence got misplaced. It was the topic of prys vs cross bow draws that occasionally came up ar RCABC meetings, not firearms!

 

[yellowcanoe]

Oh for me the unskilled in firearms no I would be insane to carry.. I can shoot myself in the face with bear spray.

Scouter Griz the post you describe is not the post we use in the ACA these days.. Post in ACA curriculum is a turn toward your paddle side with the boat edged on the outside of a turn.. Got that name cause its like a kid hanging on to a post when the boat spins around the paddle. Its a hoot of fun.. And not a good eddy turn.