Carrying a gun when canoe traveling just because

[Blukanu]

I’d feel extremely naked and vulnerable if I don’t have some sort of firearm on me. Usually carry a 40 cal service pistol. If anything it can make a loud bang to scare something off. You don’t always have to use it in a lethal way against unwanted critters.

My biggest security concern is of the two legged variety. Maybe I watched Deliverence too much, but in the semi remote area I camp running across people doing illegal activities is a possibility. Meth labs, pot farms, poaching, etc. Who knows what they’ll do to not have witnesses.

Not just hypothetical as there’s been documented cases of things like this happening. One that comes to mind is a father and young son deer hunting on public land a few years ago. They encountered a man in camouflage (deer season you must wear blaze orange). The guy shot at them with a pistol. The father/son dove for cover and returned fire and the guy ran off. Never heard if the authorities figured out who or what that was all about.

 

[Black_Fly]

I’d feel extremely naked and vulnerable if I don’t have some sort of firearm on me. Usually carry a 40 cal service pistol. If anything it can make a loud bang to scare something off. You don’t always have to use it in a lethal way against unwanted critters.

My biggest security concern is of the two legged variety. Maybe I watched Deliverence too much, but in the semi remote area I camp running across people doing illegal activities is a possibility. Meth labs, pot farms, poaching, etc. Who knows what they’ll do to not have witnesses.

Not just hypothetical as there’s been documented cases of things like this happening. One that comes to mind is a father and young son deer hunting on public land a few years ago. They encountered a man in camouflage (deer season you must wear blaze orange). The guy shot at them with a pistol. The father/son dove for cover and returned fire and the guy ran off. Never heard if the authorities figured out who or what that was all about.

Yeah, there have been people taking pot shots at camps in BWCA. Two guys saw my wife and I land on Frost lake 15 years ago. They showed up before we could get the canoes unloaded, said they wanted to check out the campsite for future trips. I was unarmed so I picked up my axe and waited for one to look around (the other guy stayed on the beach). I told them we needed yo set up camp now. So they left. It may have been just ignorant rudeness, but I’m glad I had the axe.

 

[evernole]

With all the upset in the world, crowds in the backcountry, I’m considering carrying this summer. Just a lot of yahoos about. More people you see the more likely there’s a sociopath in the mix.

I agree. It's better to have a defensive tool and not need it, than to need it and not have it for whatever events (natural or manmade) may unfold.

 

[Foxyotter]

I know folks who carry guns while paddling and hiking. They often don't have a compass, rain gear, or wear a PFD. Which are all much more likely to save your life or loved one then a gun. Over the last 35 ish years I have played and worked in forest I have never needed or wanted a weapon. Granted I have not traveled extensively in grizzly country or polar bear territory where it seems warranted and logical. The two legged predators very rarely travel in the wilderness and given all the data on risk vs benefit of carrying a weapon it appears illogical to carry firearms for peace of mind. The weight of a 40 Cal pistol with no ammo and no holster or case weighs almost 2 lbs. A 10 round magazine adds approximately another 1/4 lb plus holster and or case. I have spent a lot of money to reduce my gear weight by three pounds and unless logic and data illustrate that carrying a weapon in the back-county is safer then not I will leave my weapons at home. A table, tarp or bug netting would be higher on my list then a pistol.

Though the way things are going with every Dick and Jane carrying a weapon and almost zero training required and unreasonable fear of strangers being the biggest motivator it might soon be logical to carry a weapon in the USA. I have watch people with Concealed Carry permits not know how to load a revolver even attempting to put rounds in backwards. When I grew up people respected guns and there was a safety culture around owning and using a weapon. Now there seems to be a paranoid and angry culture around guns in the USA that is completely detached from reality. The industry has sold a ton of guns and made a ton of money.

 

[PaddlingPitt]

The wilderness paddling that Kathleen and I have pursued has always been in northern landscapes frequented by grizzlies, or polar bears or numerous black bears. Mostly grizzlies and blacks. We carry a .308 lever action with 180 grain cartridges. Have never fired it in defense. On two occasions we have scared off black bears in our camp with bear bangers. We only very rarely see other people on our wilderness canoe trips. If i thought I would need protection from other people on a canoe trip, i would not paddle in that area. We go wilderness canoeing for peace and relaxation.

 

[Foxyotter]

Yeah, there have been people taking pot shots at camps in BWCA. Two guys saw my wife and I land on Frost lake 15 years ago. They showed up before we could get the canoes unloaded, said they wanted to check out the campsite for future trips. I was unarmed so I picked up my axe and waited for one to look around (the other guy stayed on the beach). I told them we needed yo set up camp now. So they left. It may have been just ignorant rudeness, but I’m glad I had the axe.

I have not visited BWCA because there are 150,000 plus people that visit there every year. From my understanding there was one instance involving 6 people around 15 years ago and no one was shot. I could have missed others. Those seem like really good odds to me. Most deaths in the BWCA every year are for medical emergency's followed by drownings. I would venture to guess that it is more logical and more likly to save someones life if we carried a defibrillator then a pistol. Granted a Definb weighs around 5-7 pounds and takes up more space. I know I worry a lot more about some of my paddle companions haveing a heart attack or stroke in the back country then getting shot by some yahoo.

 

[evernole]

I know folks who carry guns while paddling and hiking. They often don't have a compass, rain gear, or wear a PFD. Which are all much more likely to save your life or loved one then a gun. Over the last 35 ish years I have played and worked in forest I have never needed or wanted a weapon. Granted I have not traveled extensively in grizzly country or polar bear territory where it seems warranted and logical. The two legged predators very rarely travel in the wilderness and given all the data on risk vs benefit of carrying a weapon it appears illogical to carry firearms for peace of mind. The weight of a 40 Cal pistol with no ammo and no holster or case weighs almost 2 lbs. A 10 round magazine adds approximately another 1/4 lb plus holster and or case. I have spent a lot of money to reduce my gear weight by three pounds and unless logic and data illustrate that carrying a weapon in the back-county is safer then not I will leave my weapons at home. A table, tarp or bug netting would be higher on my list then a pistol.

Though the way things are going with every Dick and Jane carrying a weapon and almost zero training required and unreasonable fear of strangers being the biggest motivator it might soon be logical to carry a weapon in the USA. I have watch people with Concealed Carry permits not know how to load a revolver even attempting to put rounds in backwards. When I grew up people respected guns and there was a safety culture around owning and using a weapon. Now there seems to be a paranoid and angry culture around guns in the USA that is completely detached from reality. The industry has sold a ton of guns and made a ton of money.

Carrying an extra 2 lbs doesn't bother me. I really never consider weight much when loading my gear (except to make sure the canoe is not at an unsafe weight), knowing I most likely will need to plan for additional weight on the return leg of my trips. Heck my rifle weighs 8 1/2 lbs, my treestand weighs 28 lbs, plus camping stuff (axe, hammock, sleeping bag, food/water etc.) who knows maybe 40lbs or 50lbs. If the canoe hunting/camping trip is successful, I'll have an extra 100-200lb in the canoe on the return trip anyway. Being a retired Navy Sailor, I always wear my PFD when on the water in any watercraft, I have a compass and a GPS mounted to the canoe as well as a backup of each in my backpack (along with my Amateur Radios), I carry rain gear and a quite extensive first aid / trauma kit. Most of my canoeing relates to hunting/fishing/camping. During hunting season it's totally devoted to hunting. When it's not hunting season (which is most weeks) it's relaxing trips of canoe camping and fishing while often scouting for the next hunting season. I have a MRC Explorer 16 Royalex , for 37 years she's always handled the weight fine. I'm doing seasonal maintenance this month, refinishing her wood gunwales, and giving her a new coat of paint. Endless weeks canoeing, camping and enjoying nature, either solo, or with my wife, children and grandchildren, is my very satisfying retirement plan.

 

[Gamma1214]

I would venture to guess that it is more logical and more likly to save someones life if we carried a defibrillator then a pistol.

I'll agree that that's an accurate statement. I'm not sure I'd want the extra weight (which is the primary reason I leave the guns at home) but I was actually surprised by how inexpensive an AED is.

(I wonder if one of my power banks could recharge it in the field?)

 

[yellowcanoe]

I have not visited BWCA because there are 150,000 plus people that visit there every year. From my understanding there was one instance involving 6 people around 15 years ago and no one was shot. I could have missed others. Those seem like really good odds to me. Most deaths in the BWCA every year are for medical emergency's followed by drownings. I would venture to guess that it is more logical and more likly to save someones life if we carried a defibrillator then a pistol. Granted a Definb weighs around 5-7 pounds and takes up more space. I know I worry a lot more about some of my paddle companions haveing a heart attack or stroke in the back country then getting shot by some yahoo.

Are you aware a defibrillator has one job ?
To produce cardiac standstill
In a healthy heart spontaneous organized pulse producing might happen
but usually cardiac drugs administered intravenously are needed for the heart attack victim
So beam the paramedic down Scotty
In 8 minutes or less

 

[Cheeseandbeans]

I imagine one could shock some shirtless unsuspecting gun wielding madman if you were fast enough…

 

[Gamma1214]

I imagine one could shock some shirtless unsuspecting gun wielding madman if you were fast enough…

"hold still while I put these on you..." Nah, probably better to just use a taser. (They're a lot lighter too)

 

[memaquay]

Ask A Bear: Do Tasers Stop Bears?

Our resident bruin expert answers all in our 'Ask A Bear' column.

www.backpacker.com

 

[Foxyotter]

Are you aware a defibrillator has one job ?
To produce cardiac standstill
In a healthy heart spontaneous organized pulse producing might happen
but usually cardiac drugs administered intravenously are needed for the heart attack victim
So beam the paramedic down Scotty
In 8 minutes or less

I realize your the Paramedic and I could be wrong but and AED will not typically be effective if you have flat lined/ Asystole /Carrdiac standstill. Now if you are in V-Fib or A-Tach and AED should be helpful. For cardiac stimulating drugs ya just need a little cocaine or meth. Those are carried in all our first aid kits and recreational kits right?

 

[Cheeseandbeans]

Only Vfib and Vtach are shockable. You can have a pulse and be in Vtach too. An AED reads the rhythm and prompts you to shock if appropriate.

 

[Foxyotter]

I agree. It's better to have a defensive tool and not need it, than to need it and not have it for whatever events (natural or manmade) may unfold.

Under this rationale I could carry a lot more stuff, maybe throw in some body armor, a set of screw dives, and few box wrenches and maybe a helmet at least for the drive to the BWCA. I could even throw in a Mike Mcrea fix it kit. All at times could be helpful and possibly life saving. I always try to figure what are my most likely risks on any given trip and how do I prevent, prepare or avoid such risks. What are the potential risk or draw backs to carrying said items. Not just guns or bear spray etc. Looking at statistics for BWCA I personally see carrying a gun, bear spray and bangers as unnecessary weight that add more risk to my self, travel companions and environment then the odds of needing such tools. Not saying there aren't situations that warrant those tools but the BWCA does not seem like one. Now if ones risk tolerance is high but can't sleep because of fear and having a gun or bear spray helps you sleep at night then the risk of poor sleep and the out fall from that could lead one to make different choices. I sleep like a baby.

The risk of carrying a gun is very real. Choosing to take on additional risk to carry a weapon in the back country and knowing when and how to use the weapon is a complicated and challenging task. People who train their whole career and are require to carry a weapon for a job fail spectacularly and regularly so if one chooses that risk they should know what they are risking.

 

[memaquay]

For cardiac stimulating drugs ya just need a little cocaine or meth. Those are carried in all our first aid kits and recreational kits right?

Lol, you would fit right in with the Geraldton crew. Seriously though, we have so many meth heads now, canoeing is the only way to get away from them, unless they have already stolen your canoe, or paddles, or vehicle.

 

[pblanc]

Only Vfib and Vtach are shockable. You can have a pulse and be in Vtach too. An AED reads the rhythm and prompts you to shock if appropriate.

It has been found that not all AEDs will recommend defibrillation for monomorphic ventricular tachycardia, especially if the electrical rate is 150 bpm or less.

Torsade de Pointes is a type of ventricular tachycardia that not all AEDs will recommend defibrillation for.

 

[yellowcanoe]

The point is anAED is one bit of a toolkit not the entire kit
You wouldn't expect to finish your trip if you had a flat tire and had a jack but no spare would you?

 

[LanceR]

Hey folks, can we re-read the first post in this thread and get this back on track, please? The main question was whether you ever carried a gun and you feelings related to that. Please let the off track other things drop and stick to the topic.

Thanks,

Lance

 

[Foxyotter]

Hey folks, can we re-read the first post in this thread and get this back on track, please? The main question was whether you ever carried a gun and you feelings related to that. Please let the off track other things drop and stick to the topic.

Thanks,

Lance

In relation to all threads on this forum I would say we barely strayed off topic, especially 8 pages deep. Threads like this should have a little humor and side tracks. We are still basically on topic of paddling and guns. The additional information about AEDs came about as a response to my premise that an AED vs gun and which is more likly to save a life while out tripping or canoeing. Off course it is never a simple and concise scenario easily distiled to one answer. The note on cardiac stimulants was more tongue in cheek. I still appreciate your sediment Lance.