Boat Insurance?

[Guest]

Part of my curiosity about currently manufactured decked canoes in Deerfly’s trip report stems from an insurance question. I recently transferred all of our insurance (5 vehicles and homeowners) to a local agent more convenient to meet with.

I had not sat down to actually discuss in detail “What is this fee?” and “What does it cover, for how much, where?” with an insurance agent in, well, ever. My bad. It was a very worthwhile hour spent in their offices.

There was some crazy stuff just on the auto insurance side; my policy, which I have had since 1972, included a “What’s-this-code” fee for Burial. Seriously, burial insurance if I die in a car accident? It was only a few dollars a year. For 46 freaking years.

Our 14 year old CR-V, originally my wife’s commuter car, had a code for “Roadside assistance & towing”. We run our vehicles to at least 250,00 miles and have always had a AAA family plan for all of our vehicles including the ancient, less dependable hoopties. I am not even sure how that got on the policy, but we sure as hell didn’t need it. Ever. For 14 years.

The open question in that sit down was about our boats. The homeowner’s policy would cover the loss of a boat (or boats) for a max of $1500. Not each, total. And provided it was somehow destroyed at home, and I believe while stored inside the house or attached garage.

One of our decked canoes had an MSRP of $880. In 1971. Using an inflation calculator that $880 in 1971 is $5575 in 2018, which seems about right to replace that hull. When we trip as a family we carry 4 boats on the van. There could easily be $10K in boats atop the van, away from the confines of the house.

I spent a day with old Buyers Guides, figuring out each MSRP in the year of manufacture, and then spent hours figuring out what an equivalent replacement hull would cost in 2018.

We have 16 boats. It was an eye opening exercise; I had at times pointed to the rack saying “There’s $10,000 worth of boats there”. Uh, no, actually there is twice that, even in original years-old retail cost. The replacement cost number was staggering.

Taking one non-decked canoe example, our Royalex Explorer cost $1149 in 1992. Mad River is now making the Explorer in T-formex. With an MSRP of $2199

I plan to sit down sometime this week with the insurance agent and look into a rider for the canoes and kayaks, even if I have to restrict that to just the year of manufacture cost, or the priciest and hardest to replace hulls.

Anyone have insurance on their boats? If so, what have you found?

BTW, the denoument to the car insurance changes. I did not reduce any of our sensible coverages, like $50 deductible comprehensive (for broken windshields), and actually increased one (at-fault personal injury, which oddly had the same limit for one person as for a car full of passengers). Three of the vehicles got refund checks for around $30. The 280,000 mile CR-V (the one with emergency towing, and $250 deductible Collision) got a check for $100.

Why the hell was I paying $502 a year for Collision, with a $250 deductible, for a vehicle worth $1000 tops?

 

[OCDave]

I hadn't considered insuring the boats beyond the limits of my homeowner's policy. Clearly, I need to look into this.

Thanks

 

[frozentripper]

My canoes would have to have added insurance since they're worth more than the $2000 in the homeowner's.

Just a quick comment about car insurance and getting value for the money... for a $1000, old and depreciated car, no matter what the actual condition actually is (the insurance cos don't care about actual condition, they go by age only and a very old car that's actually good & reliable may be worth almost nothing in their eyes)... anyway, as an example, for an old car with coverage costing $500 for comprehensive and $500 for collision, there isn't any value in that coverage since if repair costs more than $1000, the insurer won't pay out more than what the car's worth... $1000. After a bad accident, they'll simply pay $1000, which has already been paid for, so the net value of the coverage is zero, and less if deductible is worked in. Might be time to drop the comprehensive and collision with an older car... at least this is the story up here in Canada.

PS... there have been some reforms to the insurance regs brought on by the Ontario government recently that I haven't checked into so maybe something's changed, worth a look.

 

[Mihun09]

We were told the homeowners insurance covers sporting goods up to $3000. That would not replace the Kevlar Swift Mattawa we trip with let alone all the antique w/c canoes and strippers. That 3k would also have to cover all the camping equipment in the basement. We have not found much in the way of options so far.

 

[Guest]

We were told the homeowners insurance covers sporting goods up to $3000. That would not replace the Kevlar Swift Mattawa we trip with let alone all the antique w/c canoes and strippers. That 3k would also have to cover all the camping equipment in the basement. We have not found much in the way of options so far.

Karin, the “sporting goods” question also arose while I was explaining our lifestyle to the insurance agent. We do not have jewelry or a gun collection or furs (aside from my winter hat). We do not have expensive furniture or electronics. We do not have high-fashion clothing.

But 3K for “Sportings Good” will not come close to covering our gear, even aside from the boats.

We do have a lot of tech-wear clothing; neoprene, Mukluks, Gore-tex, quick dry/UV stuff in our closets. Add, not inconsiderably; paddles; PFDs, tents, tarps, sails, dry bags, food barrels, float bags, roof rack systems for all 5 cars. . . . .

. . . . . spray covers, storage covers, back bands, deck compasses, Pelican boxes, bilge pumps, map cases, stoves, poles, dromedaries, water filters, compression bags, rescue knives, throw ropes. . . . .

I don’t think insurance companies are used to dealing with paddle-holics, but I don’t see how we are any different from stamp collectors, gun collectors, Sable-clad fashionistas, or even the guy with a couple classic, restored Chris-Craft in his garage.

I will post what I discover (with State Farm), hopefully sometime this week. I am hoping that our “gear collection” will be covered under the limits of our homeowner’s policy, but I know the boats will need a rider, if that proves affordable.

I have no idea what “affordable” means; in frugal Scots terms less than $100 a year to insure all of the boats everywhere, at home and away, might be worthwhile. Or maybe I just insure the costliest to replace hulls.

I am not thinking this rider would cover “I screwed up and pinned the canoe around a rock” scenarios, but that last “away” part is especially important to me. If we have four of the decked canoes, locked to the van outside a motel room and they are stolen, or wrecked in an accident, that’s easily $10,000 on the racks. Even with the usual two boats on the truck I have 5K on the racks, and a $1500 cap is not going to replace even one of them.

 

[yellowcanoe]

It's something to look into. We have 12 boats and an unfinished 111 year old canoe( seems neither of us here is keen on really restoring it). The boats are all old save one.. Don't know if insuring is worth it. Have to look into it as we have always self insured if possible.. The insurance companies are there to make money for them..not me.
We have USAA and have had them for 50 years. So far our auto insurance for two cars is about 600 a year total with full coverage. We get a sizeable senior discount and as we are stockholder as all members are we get a dividend of about 700 a year. After all the math it works out to $600.
But I would hate to have a claim.. Two years our furnace froze up and the damage from burst pipes. was $10,000. Claims do go on your record and I don't want to lose those benefits because something happened to a boat.

 

[Guest]

It's something to look into. We have 12 boats and an unfinished 111 year old canoe( seems neither of us here is keen on really restoring it). The boats are all old save one.

Boat and Gear Insurance follow-up soon. I have an appointment on Monday to discuss all of the above concerns with my new (same company), nearby insurance agent. I sent them a detailed list of every boat, and a list of related gear.

I will have a lot of questions, luckily the new agent is fun, funny and willing to take the time. She had to call in a meeting with a specialist to figure out coverage for a Paddle-holic’s boat and gear collection.

I may be there for some time. Some questions for that follow-up meeting:

Are (whichever of the boats I elect to insure) covered by the year of manufacture MSRP, or by the replacement cost? I do not need to insure the inexpensive polyethylene boats, or the stuff I might find used on Craigslist, and may need to pick and choose what to insure from there.

If I have a rider on boats what exactly is covered under “Sporting Goods”? Including some definition, deductible and limits.

Where/how is stuff covered? I am less concerned about loss at home than loss while traveling. And I’m not thinking “Geepers, I screwed up and wrapped the boat in a rapid” coverage, but if I am in an accident and manage to destroy 10K of boats on the roof racks, or if some cretin makes off two decked canoes from the roof racks outside a diner, what’s covered?

Egads, what about the collection of shop tools. Or, perhaps almost as costly to replace, shop stock supplies (glass, kevlar, Dynel, peel ply, epoxy, stainless steel, outfitting bits and pieces). General homeowner’s coverage, with what limits and deductabiles?

Crikey, what about the book shelves? Not so much the who-cares paperback novel and non-fiction collection; we have a near ceiling height book shelf filled with Natural History field guides and State-by-State paddling guides, some author autographed. Quick count, there are 200+ field and paddling guides in that bookcase. Is there a library limit?

Lastly, I really (really) need to at least walk thought the house with the digital camera and photograph every dang thing; every wall, every closet, every storage shelf, every piece of DIY stick-built solid wood furniture. That is something I have been telling myself, and something DougD has been telling me, ever since his house burned down and he found himself trying to identify piles of ashes and globs of melted plastic.

I’m sure glad I didn’t already do that photo-inventory, and put the photos on the now vanished Community Webshots site. Or the held-for-ransom Photobucket site. Or future Ficker, Imageur etc possible disappearances. Maybe the insurance companies should host their own reliable/accessible archival photo hosting for secure off-site inventory storage.

Seriously, remodeled the kitchen or built an addition? Snap some digital photos and upload them to your insurance company’s homeowner inventory. That would not be rocket science on either end.

 

[Guest]

What I found regarding homeowners, sporting goods and canoe/kayak insurance.

Our basic homeowners policy seems adequate to replace the house and most of our possessions, but not the boats and/or gear.

There is a long list of stuff (fine arts, furs, stamp/gun/coin/etc collections, golf equipment, even “Chain Saws” and “Hobbyist Hand Tools”) that might require a separate rider. That long list includes “Sporting Goods”, which includes canoes, kayaks, paddles, spray covers, etc. And camping gear.

Our limit on Sporting Goods was $1500.

To purchase a Sporting Goods rider, covering the boats and gear, I didn’t have to identify every paddle and PFD, tent or tarp, but the more information provided about each canoe the better. I provided them a detailed list of each boat including make, model, length, material, HIN, retail price at time of purchase (gawd bless the collection of old Buyers Guides) and replacement cost.

Even aside from insurance purposes that was a valuable exercise. Somewhere I have (or had) a list of each boat and HIN. That list was 10 years out of date, and I couldn’t find it in any case.

Unlike the basic $1500 on the Homeowners policy, which covered the boats only at home and (I think) when stored inside, that rider covers them while travelling, if damaged in a crash, stolen from the roof racks or boatnapped in the middle of the night from the beach. Not sure about if I wrap it around a rock, let’s not find out.

I took a bunch of boats off the list for insurance; two poly boats that I could easily replace Craigslist used, three tandems that I need to sell, one old glass hull, etc.

The pricy or hard to replace stuff, all of the kevlar boats, all of the RX solos and all of the decked canoes, got insured. The rate was based on the original retail cost but covered them for replacement. I added 2K in coverage for the other Sporting Goods; since I don’t usually take all 37 paddles or 9 tents on a trip that should be sufficient.

In 40 years I have only had one canoe stolen, and one trashed beyond repair by vandals. And some gear stolen here and there. But the annual cost was less than I spend on beer in a sober month.

YMMV. It may have helped that we have been with the same insurance company, for everything, for 46 years, and had almost no claims. Every time the insurance rep looked at our score or rating she would exclaim “Man, you have a really high score”.

If you have a lot of boats, or even just a few expensive/hard to replace boats, it may be worth looking into your coverage. The up-to-date list of make/model/HIN is a no brainer (see “missing and 10 years out of date”).

 

[Alan Gage]

I don't like insurance and try to avoid it when possible. At one time I thought about paying extra so that all my boats could be covered in full but decided the odds of something actually happening were slim and that boats were not difficult or expensive (in the grand scheme of things) to replace.

Alan

 

[stripperguy]

A bunch of years ago I built a 19 ft sailboat really high performance
a coworker suggested I should insure it since materials alone were about $6,000
before I could insure it I had to file for a hull ID number
after i had an inspection and was issued a HIN I tried to get some sort of insurance for the boat
insurance company said I needed an appraisal so I paid for a professional appraisal
boat was valued at $18,000
that’s about the point that I dropped the ball...

 

[Guest]

I don't like insurance and try to avoid it when possible. At one time I thought about paying extra so that all my boats could be covered in full but decided the odds of something actually happening were slim and that boats were not difficult or expensive (in the grand scheme of things) to replace.

I try to avoid insurance as well, but you can’t drive or buy a home here without having insurance. Even without the Sporting Good question I had knocked close to $200 a year off the various car insurance policies without sacrificing anything of value.

As a skilled and practiced canoe builder you have some advantages. You could build another one, improved and better than the last, at will.

My shop lacks the molds and ovens to replicate one of the Royalex boats, and the cost of a new T-formex canoe was surprising. $2200 for a T-formex Mad River Explorer? Seriously?

I suppose I could build my own decked canoe or kevlar composite tripper. BWAHAHA, that’s never gonna happen!

If nothing else it provided the impetus (still unrealized) to sell off a couple of the never used tandems and maybe one of the poly boats. Selling one of those unused boats would pay the insurance on the rest for the next decade.

 

[OCDave]

I just purchased a personal articles policy covering my boats and bikes. Not only were the limits of my home owner's policy woefully inadequate, any non-weather-related claim would cause me to loose discounts that take years to re-qualify for. Approximately $300 annually gets me coverage for about $9000 of stuff.

Thanks Mike for bringing this to my attention.

 

[lowangle al]

I just purchased a personal articles policy covering my boats and bikes. Not only were the limits of my home owner's policy woefully inadequate, any non-weather-related claim would cause me to loose discounts that take years to re-qualify for. Approximately $300 annually gets me coverage for about $9000 of stuff.

Thanks Mike for bringing this to my attention.

I thought it would be cheaper Dave, but then I don't know what it covers. If a branch fell out of a tree and landed on your w/c canoe would it cover the repair?

I gave my insurance agent a paddling lesson, solo in my OT Yankee. As far as insuring the boats goes he said that because I have nothing else of value in the house it would be well below the maximum allowed for personal property. I do like the idea of a separate rider though, and may need one someday.

 

[OCDave]

I thought it would be cheaper Dave, but then I don't know what it covers. If a branch fell out of a tree and landed on your w/c canoe would it cover the repair?

I gave my insurance agent a paddling lesson, solo in my OT Yankee. As far as insuring the boats goes he said that because I have nothing else of value in the house it would be well below the maximum allowed for personal property. I do like the idea of a separate rider though, and may need one someday.

There were 3 issues favoring the separate policy
> Limits of what home owner's policy would pay would not replace any of the boats
> Homeowner's insurance has a large deductible
> Filing a claim against my home owner's policy would cost me a 20% discount on my annual premium

As far as the cost of the premium; I included 3 fairly nice bikes. Bikes have wheels and are prone to mysteriously roll away. Insuring the bikes added significantly to the premium.