boat advice: solo canoe for 1-2 week river trips?

[Boreal Birch]

In September on a road/camping/fishing/bird hunting trip, I passed through Winona Minnesota one beautiful day. I have long admired their green steel coffee mugs, so thought I would just stop by and buy one. A lovely blonde woman who's name started with an A (I can recall her face, but have always been bad with remembering names) was happy to just sell me the mug. She asked if I had time for a tour of the plant. We walked over to where D (name thing again) was finishing up varnishing paddles. He gave me a wonderful tour, showed me all the steps in building and painting their paddles, and the folks that do the work. The paddles are beautiful works of art and I plan to buy a couple in the future. After see the paddle side of the place I was taken over to the canoe side where I got to see the Merrimack canoes being built. If I didn't already have a beautiful wood canvas canoe that Joe Seliga built for me years ago, I would put in a order for one of these great looking boats.
The steel cup is getting a work out while pecking away at the keys, it is a nice memento of some real nice people at Sanborn Canoe Co. Maybe BWCA66 can help me with the names of the crew?
BB

 

[BWCA66]

In September on a road/camping/fishing/bird hunting trip, I passed through Winona Minnesota one beautiful day. I have long admired their green steel coffee mugs, so thought I would just stop by and buy one. A lovely blonde woman who's name started with an A (I can recall her face, but have always been bad with remembering names) was happy to just sell me the mug. She asked if I had time for a tour of the plant. We walked over to where D (name thing again) was finishing up varnishing paddles. He gave me a wonderful tour, showed me all the steps in building and painting their paddles, and the folks that do the work. The paddles are beautiful works of art and I plan to buy a couple in the future. After see the paddle side of the place I was taken over to the canoe side where I got to see the Merrimack canoes being built. If I didn't already have a beautiful wood canvas canoe that Joe Seliga built for me years ago, I would put in a order for one of these great looking boats.
The steel cup is getting a work out while pecking away at the keys, it is a nice memento of some real nice people at Sanborn Canoe Co. Maybe BWCA66 can help me with the names of the crew?
BB

That would have been Abby working in the front and probably my nephew Todd who gave you the tour. My son handles the painted paddle side and my wife paints for him.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I think its great that the Baboosuc is being made again. I will tell that guy that won.. you see he had it on a trailer of boats and was sideswiped by an out of control semi.. All his boats including the Baboosuc were destroyed and he was upset that he was not able to get another from Merrimack.. this was a few years ago..

 

[Guest]

Magnus, lots of good advice and info in this thread.

As a sitter I agree with Charlie that round bottom canoes can feel twitchy uncomfortable for seated paddlers. If you are a habitual sitter taking broadside waves or making sharp eddy turns will require a wet learning experience.

Like Willie I have an OT Penobscot, soloized with an Ed’s Canoe Parts contour seat (and truss hangers, not those awful dowel things OT uses), positioned well aft of center. That is my big guy, big load go-to canoe for long trips, but like you I have a bad back and questionable knees, and the weight is enough that I don’t want to have to carry it further than truck to water.

I believe it was Charlie who once advised “If your back is getting stronger buy a plastic canoe, if not, buy composite”. I should have paid more attention to that dictum 20 years ago.

Some of the criteria depend on your packing style. I don’t portage much and tend so to pack gear heavy on solo trips; “two” person tent, full size camp chair, tarp and poles, blue barrel, some libations, etc. I have an MRC Freedom Solo (nee Guide), which I love for moving water daytrips, but packing gear for a multi-week trip in a 14 ½ foot hull would be an awfully tight squeeze or above gunwales load.

I also have a Wenonah Wilderness. It is no more maneuverable than the Penobscot and I would just as soon have the Penobscot’s extra foot of length. The Wilderness is the RX version and it oil cans a bit; if I had it to do over I’d buy that canoe in Tough-Weave.

As a Wenonah downriver tripper I am partial to the Rendezvous (15 feet 8 inches with 2 ½ inches of rocker), although again one of the composite versions is preferably to the Royalex model. The composite Rendezvous paddles substantially different than the RX version. One caveat with the Rendezvous; some people find the low chine-bubble tumblehome awkward. I would definitely put the Rendezvous in the difficult try-before-you-buy category.

There is more information about solo tripper canoe preferences on this eponymously titled thread, including a Glenn MacGrady list of models on page 3 that would largely suit my preferences.

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...cussion/53014-​solo-tripper-canoe-preferences

I am too cheap to buy a new canoe, and the list of used canoes that are not unicorns on a mid-Atlantic region Craigslist fitting my bill as design solo, soloizable tandem or bow backwards boat is relatively short. In Royalex the ubiquitous Penobscot or (less common) a Dagger Reflection 15 with “center” seat, in composite a Rendezvous or an adapted MRC Explorer or Malecite probably make the most used appearances.

BTW, I am fond of paddling in eastern NC. The State does a nice job with Wildlife Boating Access points and with their paddler oriented State parks; Merchants Mill Pond, Lumber River, Hammocks Beach and etc. For blackwater swamp day tripping the middle and lower sections of the Black and South rivers are hard to beat. I’ve done most of the South excepting the very top end, and all of the non-tidal Black.

If you do not yet have a copy Paul Ferguson’s “Paddling Eastern North Carolina”, covering 2600 miles of NC rivers, that guidebook is a godsend.

 

[Guest]

I'm close to your size, 6' 235#'s and I paddle a Wenonah Wilderness in Royalex. Generally I trip scratchy rivers that are sometimes "quick" (max class II) and it handles well even with food and gear in excess of 75#'s. I'm a sitter and after 2 trips, lowered the seat. I'm seriously considering moving the seat sternward 3 or 4". It's not a speed demon but with a doubleblade. I can generally keep up.

The seat placement in the RX Wilderness leaves a lot to be desired, at least for bigger guys.

I have a Wilderness in RX and the seat is too far forward for me. Kneeling is out of the question; I’d trim looking like I had taken a torpedo in the bow. Even day tripping I need to gear trim the hull lighter in the bow and sit fully back on the seat, pressed against that too-close stern thwart.

I think Wenonah may have screwed up the seat placement on the first (couple?) year of RX Wilderness. The OEM seat placement on the slightly longer composite version seems better, but even there it would be better further back for endomorph bodies.

IIRC Mr. Durness test paddled a hearty selection of solo trippers and opted for a composite Wilderness with the seat custom placed in the factory.

I’d move the seat in our Wilderness 3 or 4 inches back as you mentioned, but the OEM Wilderness fits my tall slender son like a tailored suit.

I knew it; size does matter! Or at least girth.

 

[Grandpa Paddler]

Mike,
You mentioned that your Wilderness RX oil cans. I've not had that problem with mine. Now my Adirondack RX, on the other hand, has a horrific flex even with a heavy load. Any suggestions?
Jon

 

[Magnus919]

Magnus, lots of good advice and info in this thread.

I agree.

I believe it was Charlie who once advised “If your back is getting stronger buy a plastic canoe, if not, buy composite”. I should have paid more attention to that dictum 20 years ago.

One of my takeaways, and not a surprise so much as a validation of what I suspected, I need to bring up my budget for the next boat. I've got a nice motorcycle that doesn't get much use anymore (though it's carried me all over the southeastern US in the past) and its resale value is somewhere in the neighborhood of almost two nice composite boats. Plus I've been putting money away for buying a boat (and continue to every paycheck) which has me solidly in "almost any plastic Old Town boat" budget right now, but it's growing nicely. So I think I'll skip the new plastic boat and work on things coming together for a nice composite boat.

I suspect what might happen is that Old Town Camper gets refitted as a solo boat. I've heard rumors that it is fine on Class I/II rivers, which seems counter-intuitive but costs me nothing but potentially wounded pride to test out. If it works out, a 16' Royalex boat should be able to carry 1-2 weeks worth of solo tripping gear.

Some of the criteria depend on your packing style. I don’t portage much and tend so to pack gear heavy on solo trips; “two” person tent, full size camp chair, tarp and poles, blue barrel, some libations, etc. I have an MRC Freedom Solo (nee Guide), which I love for moving water daytrips, but packing gear for a multi-week trip in a 14 ½ foot hull would be an awfully tight squeeze or above gunwales load.

Right now I've got a Hennessy Hammock but for longer trips I might look out for more comfortable options. Have you seen the Tentsile tent hammocks? They are rather big but the upshot is you can stack them, so a mesh hammock hanging inches below the sleeping hammock can be used for layout out wet gear to dry... or can be sandwiched right against the underside of the sleeping hammock for layering insulation up on cold nights. I do worry that our woods here are too dense for a Tentsile style system to work.

There is more information about solo tripper canoe preferences on this eponymously titled thread, including a Glenn MacGrady list of models on page 3 that would largely suit my preferences.

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...cussion/53014-​solo-tripper-canoe-preferences

My next stop after this thread.

I am too cheap to buy a new canoe, and the list of used canoes that are not unicorns on a mid-Atlantic region Craigslist fitting my bill as design solo, soloizable tandem or bow backwards boat is relatively short. In Royalex the ubiquitous Penobscot or (less common) a Dagger Reflection 15 with “center” seat, in composite a Rendezvous or an adapted MRC Explorer or Malecite probably make the most used appearances.

The Craigslist finds near me have left me uninspired. But they are largely a reflection, I think, of the poor network of canoe dealers in this region.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/search/boa?query=canoe&hasPic=1

BTW, I am fond of paddling in eastern NC. The State does a nice job with Wildlife Boating Access points and with their paddler oriented State parks; Merchants Mill Pond, Lumber River, Hammocks Beach and etc. For blackwater swamp day tripping the middle and lower sections of the Black and South rivers are hard to beat. I’ve done most of the South excepting the very top end, and all of the non-tidal Black.

I did some work on a motion picture a couple of years ago along the Black River. Same location where parts of Sleepy Hollow are filmed (if you're familiar with the show, the cabin that Ichabod Crane squats in is on the Black River). Same location as the movie "The Conjuring". What an absolutely gorgeous place. I didn't want to leave. This was near the Three Sisters. I need to find my way back there, preferably not when the insects are swarming.

A quick day paddle that I'm very fond of is Robertson Millpond Preserve in Wendell. It's a cypress blackwater swamp but without the gators. The park is set up well for paddling and not much else. You're going to want to keep a shallow draft back in there. Some of the locals say the fishing there is really good. It's also great for bird watching.

If you do not yet have a copy Paul Ferguson’s “Paddling Eastern North Carolina”, covering 2600 miles of NC rivers, that guidebook is a godsend.

Got it.

 

[Uncle_Skwid]

And don't rule out shorter! Though again, so much depends upon the red wheelbarrow and the white chickens...

And but so take what I say with fistfuls of salt. I'm still young enough next to these old geezers (mid-forties) to enjoy canoe-tripping on both flat and white, so I currently take trips out of a 13' RX boat with sweet rocker and a pretty red sheen. We're naming her, for our upcoming trip: The Red Boat. Most important of all consideration when purchasing the love of your life is the color. Don't ever buy a yellow boat. Period. Yellow boats are like semi-colons, and point out relationships that don't need to be pointed out. Use a period! I want to scream whenever I see a boat painted yellow. We'll reserve yellow boats for sit-on-tops. And green? No way. Not unless it's an Old Town. They OWN green. In fact, if it ain't green it ain't Old Town. If you ever stumble across that pink Dagger Encore, buy it without hesitation and spare NO expense.

But so I love me some good ole USA southeastern rivers, rocks and all. (Though I am typically full of gear and flailing madly to avoid the rocks.)

I was forced down from a 14' RX earlier this fall when it was stolen. The stolen boat was a blue boat, so it was no surprise to me when Trump won. I also fill up lots of room with two 48" yellow airbags (yellow is okay for air bag use), use a 27" foam bulkhead (a recent addition as I've always been a pedestal/strap kind of dude), and still have roughly 13,000 cubic inches to spare. (For reference: two of the large NRS Bill's Bags will fit fore and aft of my bulkhead.) I'm also learning that the air bags keep me from over extending the weight, though I am squeezing in a Westwater Watershed on my upcoming 3-week trip, primarily to store all the crap for Park Service Regulations. (Dry bags are blue and red, but be careful matching them: better to cross-current the colors so you get that sort of electric buzz as you sit between them.)

So but then with the trend toward lighter and lighter fabrics and gear, hippies can now get out longer and longer with less and less space. Working to pay for said gear notwithstanding. And but so thus far I paddle flasty boats designed for tandem paddlers so's I can expend the weight of the second paddler in my lightweight personal effects, weighing, I can assure you, less than a lightweight person. The one time I briefly tried a paddling partner she jumped out of the boat and I never saw her again.

Go figure and good luck!

 

[Guest]

One of my takeaways, and not a surprise so much as a validation of what I suspected, I need to bring up my budget for the next boat.
I think I'll skip the new plastic boat and work on things coming together for a nice composite boat.

Good plan. You can be paddling (and carrying) a well made composite canoe for the next 20 years. Or wishing you had bought one for the sake of your back and knees.

I suspect what might happen is that Old Town Camper gets refitted as a solo boat. I've heard rumors that it is fine on Class I/II rivers, which seems counter-intuitive but costs me nothing but potentially wounded pride to test out. If it works out, a 16' Royalex boat should be able to carry 1-2 weeks worth of solo tripping gear.

It will carry that and more. I paddled a Camper for a decade +; first bow backwards with a kid up front, then aimed the right way with a grown-larger kid up front, then (briefly) backwards as a dad support solo. I never center-seat soloized it, but it was a decent (if slow and flat bottomed) kid and gear hauler. The Camper, paddled bow backwards, would at least give you some inking of the hull length you might best desire for toting an under gunwale multi-week gear load.

The Craigslist finds near me have left me uninspired. But they are largely a reflection, I think, of the poor network of canoe dealers in this region.

Same here, although I search a couple hundred miles out in every direction. Being mid-Atlantic we are not in the canoe-country of our more fortunate New England brothers. But unicorns do occasionally (and briefly) pop up. I have not seen many Canadian made or west coast canoes, but Old Towns, Mad Rivers, Wenonahs and old Daggers make occasional appearances.

I did some work on a motion picture a couple of years ago along the Black River. Same location where parts of Sleepy Hollow are filmed (if you're familiar with the show, the cabin that Ichabod Crane squats in is on the Black River). Same location as the movie "The Conjuring". What an absolutely gorgeous place. I didn't want to leave. This was near the Three Sisters. I need to find my way back there, preferably not when the insects are swarming.

Was that movie Rambling Rose? Filmed at the house on river left at Beattys Bridge on the Black, above the Three Sisters section?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambling_Rose_(film)

I am in or out at Beattys Bridge a couple times a year. The section above Beattys, putting in at the Wildlife Boating Access at Ivanhoe, is a dependably unstrainered 7.6 mile run and one of my favorite sections of the Black. Poke up the confluence with the South half way down, and explore the long dead end oxbow slough a half mile before Beattys (just before a fancy bankside dock with no house visible, where the river makes a hard right turn towards Beattys Bridge

There are some awesome ancient cypress snags at the back end of that slough, an artesian spring seeping out on river left, and a NC rare fern bank owned by the Nature Conservancy.

It is worth taking a full day to explore that 7 mile section, especially probing up the myriad old oxbows cuts and sloughs. Better in many ways than the more popular Three Sisters section downriver from Beattys.

 

[Magnus919]

Almost ashamed to say it, but the film was Blue Mountain State: Rise of Thadland. I was part of the team that blew blew stuff up at the finale, if you've seen the film (I've not).

If you look at the DVD cover for The Conjuring you can get a good view of the house (which is a real home that people live in) and a creepy tree (composite thing planted there just for filming).

 

[Guest]

And don't rule out shorter! Though again, so much depends upon the red wheelbarrow and the white chickens...

And but so take what I say with fistfuls of salt. I'm still young enough next to these old geezers (mid-forties) to enjoy canoe-tripping on both flat and white, so I currently take trips out of a 13' RX boat with sweet rocker and a pretty red sheen. We're naming her, for our upcoming trip: The Red Boat. Most important of all consideration when purchasing the love of your life is the color. Don't ever buy a yellow boat. Period. Yellow boats are like semi-colons, and point out relationships that don't need to be pointed out. Use a period! I want to scream whenever I see a boat painted yellow. We'll reserve yellow boats for sit-on-tops. And green? No way. Not unless it's an Old Town. They OWN green. In fact, if it ain't green it ain't Old Town. If you ever stumble across that pink Dagger Encore, buy it without hesitation and spare NO expense.

dang Skwid, obscure William Carlos Williams references and all.

You, I think, are more a whitewater paddler and tripper than many, or most, as shown in your canoe preferences. The moniker “Red Boat” shows an understatement of creativity, but canoes need a trip or three to acquire an episodically name.

I agree about yellow boats; great color for a plastic SOT, not so much for canoes. Blue, purple and jesusfreaking PINK seem garish in camp or on bankside.

Old Town green is a soothing canoe color (John Deere green not so much), but other manufacturers green doesn’t always like looking at an under-ripe lime. Despite the vibrancy I like red canoes as well, unless they have composite faded to a Barney pink.

To the OP’s composite tripper canoe search, were I ordering a new canoe I would want a two tone hull; maybe green or red above the waterline and white below. White hides the inevitable hull scrapes and scratches, and the color line is handy for Plimsoll and trim check.

 

[Magnus919]

No Title

I stopped on the way home today to see if there were any boats at the outdoors shop worth considering...

 

[yellowcanoe]

No Title

Real men paddle mauve boats. See Charlie Wilson's elegant Nakoma
A friend of mine has a dark chocolate upper spray painted to merge foggily with milk chocolate on the bottom.
You too can look like a pumpkin.. Squash with green trim See below.
( the beauty of canvas or dacron is you can change colors as quick as changing underwear)

Now as to the pejorative comment re yellow canoes. Aside from the fall there is not much but green in the boreal forest. Yellow anything sticks out if you need rescue from the air.
No that is not why I got yellow. In 1993 all sea kayaks of a serious nature ( there were no SOT's) came from Britain and all were yellow save my Orange (uglee) Prijon Seayak. Its no accident that when I got the Heron in `1993 it was yellow. Of course I did not refuse it because of yellow cause it came at a deep discount. My Raven is eek turquoise but I got it new after it sat at the dealer for four years.. At half off of course.

Yellow is a feature color at Swift this upcoming year.

I prefer the nuances of purple. My grandson didnt' mind it wasn't a Manly Color. There are four purple canoes around...all different shades

David Yost's RapidFire is a color many want but none will get. Its Brick.. or more accurately.. rust. There is the Orange of Harold Deal's Shaman.. Similar to the Orange of some Curtis DragonFlies.

O goodness the possibilites.

Paul Meyer( Colden) is tempting me with an apple green Nomad.. Apple.. garden of eden sin.. no snake.

A friend of mine who loves merlot has a canoe painted...merlot. An instructor friend has a flat black canoe that he can write on with chalk for basic canoe classes ( parts of the canoe...bow and stern.. and erase)

red and green so mundane. There are many reds. and many greens...

Rainbow canoe? I do know of one painted all the colors of a prism.

And in conclusion wardrobe matters. You must coordinate with your campsite sign

​http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/littleredcanoe/LaV77andBarronCanyonAug08018.jpg

 

[yellowcanoe]

No Title

Extensive well funded scientific research( called trial and error and we gotta grey gel here) re scuff patches says a light grey or beige works better than white.. this WildFire is a red variant..with a battle ship grey scuff patch

Any way Merry Christmas Fashionista Colorists. I bet if Santa dumped a puke green canoe for free under the tree you'd take it!

 

[Magnus919]

No Title

Any way Merry Christmas Fashionista Colorists. I bet if Santa dumped a puke green canoe for free under the tree you'd take it!

 

[Grandpa Paddler]

Almost bought a Plymouth Satellite in that awwwful green. Bought a forest green 'Cuda instead. Twas the right choice sure enough!!!

 

[sweeper]

Just talked with my cousin today who said he bought a parcel of land on the pond that was the headwaters of the Neuse River and thought I had heard of that river somewhere recently.

 

[Guest]

My lovely wife named my apple green swift Keewayden solo "Granny Smith"
Turtle

 

[Boreal Birch]

So, BWCA66, you were the guy in the back room with the full face mask working on the canoes. I can now say that I got to see one of the forum members in the flesh. You do make a wonderfully beautiful canoe. Nice area to live in also, loved that bluff and gully country up and down stream both sides of the mighty Mississippi. If I were ever to leave Alaska and move back to MN I would think long and hard about the greater Winona area.
BB

 

[Magnus919]

Just talked with my cousin today who said he bought a parcel of land on the pond that was the headwaters of the Neuse River and thought I had heard of that river somewhere recently.

The "pond" is Falls Lake, which is where most of us in these parts get our drinking water from. The playboaters love shredding just below the dam there every time the Army Corps of Engineers releases water. Beautiful area. Most of it is protected as a park so the shoreline isn't developed like most other lakes of this size. But there are a few boat ramps for power boaters, and a protected finger of the lake (Beaverdam Lake) which is open only to human-powered vessels. Beaverdam Lake is where I've seen some bald eagles nesting. And, of course, beavers.