Biggest gear challenge?

[Guest]

My longest running gear challenges in the past had been with gotta-try-it-on stuff like PFDs, shoes and clothing.

That “gotta-try-it-on” is actually more like gotta try it on and then wear it while paddling and camping. Some stuff that feels comfortable and functional in the store just doesn’t work as well when challenged in the field. But I think I’ve found what works for me in wearables.

My biggest continuing challenge is finding the perfect tent. I know I want a small two-man tent for solo use. And I know the features I want:

Two side doors with two vestibules, with fly doors designed not to drip in the tent and able to be easily restrained fully open for increases air flow and view.
Symmetrical, so there is no need to put specific pole ends into specific slots or hurriedly put the rainfly on backwards.
Dependably dry, and I’ll accept some extra weight in a more waterproof floor.
Dependable zippers. The lighter-weight the tent the more frail the zippers seem to be. I accept the weight there too.
Wind resistant, but without necessitating overly complex poles and guy lines.
Packable small. And packable smart; I wish more tents came with a duffel or burrito-style “stuff” bag that opens on top instead of an end bag.
Spidered poles, and clips. And no dang sleeves.
Webbing tensioners on the corners of the rainfly body to take up any slack from moisture sag.
A couple of pockets. More than a couple of tie-points inside the tent for stringing line or hanging light. And I’d like those interior ties to be something easy to thread a line through, not a teensy piece of flat webbing that requires dental instruments to get open.
And, lastly, large amounts of mesh wall. I’m a warm sleeper and use a mostly mesh tent all season long. I like the air circulation and more open view, especially when sleeping with the vestibules open or chanced leaving the rainfly off completely in areas without a heavy morning dew.

I’m tempted by third generation Hubba Hubba NX

http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/tents/experience-series/hubba-hubba-nx/product

My first generation HH is on its last legs and if I knew that the third gen had a beefier zipper and a better floor I’d opt for that, despite the feature description “Unified hub-and-pole system with color-coded clips” That color-coded business makes me think the tent/fly isn’t symmetrical, and color-blind me abhors that reference system.

Time to e-mail MSR for some specifics.

 

[Mihun09]

http://www.mec.ca/product/5027-703/mec-wanderer-2-tent/?f=10+50130+50831+50858

 

[Guest]

I’m tempted by third generation Hubba Hubba NX

http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/tents/experience-series/hubba-hubba-nx/product

My first generation HH is on its last legs and if I knew that the third gen had a beefier zipper and a better floor I’d opt for that, despite the feature description “Unified hub-and-pole system with color-coded clips” That color-coded business makes me think the tent/fly isn’t symmetrical, and color-blind me abhors that reference system.

Time to e-mail MSR for some specifics.

Just received a Hubba NX solo. A little bit different that the two person version but I set it up inside last night.

The instructions mention color codes, but mine, despite being asymmetric, is not color coded. On the solo version, it's pretty easy to figure out. The poles appear to be symmetric and the fly, despite being asymmetric, is easy to figure out because I only have one vestibule... just line that up with the door and it's good to go.

The poles are nice. Same as my BA but the brow pole is held to the main pole with a clip. This keeps it in the correct position and from getting lost. It seems like it will be sturdy enough, but if it breaks, I don't think it will really impede the function of the tent. BA doesn't use this feature, despite using the same DAC pole system. A little more robust perhaps, but not an issue in my mind.

The zipper seems no more or less robust than my BA. I like the door design, which is one reason I bought it. It is easy to open and you don't get caught on it going in and out. Not sure how much different the Hubba Hubba is?

The floor is definitely beefier than a BA tent. I bought a footprint as well, so I have no concerns here.

My only complaint so far is that it is slightly tight inside. It is only 30" wide and it seems to be actually narrower in the middle due to the way the floor tubs up. My mat fits but I like room for my arms. I decided it wasn't enough of an issue to give up on it, but I'd like an extra 10" of width on the head side. Anyway, you shouldn't have any issue with the two person version if you plan to use it solo. For two people it looks to be a bit on the tight side at only 50" wide.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Biggest gear challenge these days.. buying into electronica

I've had a SPOT since 2008. I am interested in the DeLorme Inreach with two way messaging. We are leaving our 13 year old dog with family and I hate to be out of touch in case..

But I am locked into a contract paid till 2015. I refuse to pay for two things that do basically the same thing at the same time.

 

[Seeker]

Biggest gear challenge along the way has been all of it... too much of everything... too large a tent, too much clothing, heavy pack, numerous stuff sacks to keep it all sorted, and too much cooking gear. I fell into the ultralight swamp a few years ago, and got sucked into some of the 'gearhead' traps... "titanium is lighter than aluminum", "gossamer light raingear", "aluminum foil pot lid", etc... after a couple years of working my gear for a backpacking trip down from about 35lbs to about 12lbs (before food and water), I looked around at some things that weren't working out the way I wanted, and came up a bit, to about 15lbs. Like Robin, I am pretty happy with my gear, but it was a slow process... I don't buy MORE GEAR so much as replacements /subs, and keep tweaking things. This enables me to flex depending on season/temps.

For shelter, I'm pretty much set with my Hennessy Hammock, a down underquilt, and an OES McCat Standard tarp. I'm still playing with the suspension system after 10 years. My sleeping bag is a Western Mountaineering Caribou 35* bag, more than adequate for my climate. If I lived further North, I'd have bought a WM Alpinlite 20* bag.

For a cookset, I've gone from an MSR Blacklite to a Walmart greasepot to an MSR Titan Kettle to a couple 1.5-2qt aluminum kettles... one is a German Army mess kit. The other is commonly called a Mors Pot. They're about even as far as performance, though the Mors Pot will store my Koolaid jar bowl/food rehydrator/cozy inside it... If I'm going on a hard canoe trip, I take the Mors. If I'm on a wannagon-appropriate canoe trip, I take the German Mess Kit. I have several stoves, all for one reason or another. If I'm backpacking, I use an MSR Pocket Rocket. On canoe trips, I take an MSR Simmerlight, but prefer to cook over a fire. I often carry an alcohol stove as a backup on canoe trips. I seldom carry more than a lexan tablespoon for utensils. I have a Lexan 3-cup mug that I like for canoeing. If I'm backpacking I do without and use the lid from the Koolaid jar.

For a pack, I've gone from a 5-6-lb Kelty Trekker to either a GoLite Gust or ULA Conduit (about 20oz each). For canoe trips, I take the Gust. For backpacking, it's the Conduit. Sometimes, if the canoe trip is easy, I take the Conduit for gear and another canvas pack for food/kitchen.

For tools, a full sized bucksaw and 18" axe are worth their weight on a canoe trip. For backpacking, depending on the agenda, I will not take any at all, or I have a really light folding saw and light hatchet.

Clothing requires an adjustment in thinking... For most canoe trips (4-5 days, June-October, Adirondacks) I wear or carry 2 pairs of wool socks (daily wash), a cotton t-shirt (sleeping), a wool sweater or long underwear top, a pair of quick-dry nylon pants (rinse every couple days), a quick-dry nylon shirt, a synthetic T-shirt (daily wear, daily wash), a pair of longjohns, 2 pairs of underwear (daily wear, daily wash, but swap since cotton takes so long to dry... need to find some synthetics, and i'll just wear one pair), a fleece, my knit hat, my Tilley, and a pair of shoes. That's it, except in Sept/Oct, I add a pair of rubber boots since the water's friggin' cold then. It's not much. A lot of folks think they need more.

Raingear... I carry a poncho on most trips, since it's so versatile... On an easy canoe trip, I might sub out with a cagoule, since it has arms, and I probably have a large kitchen tarp along anyway.

I think that covers it.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

My biggest continuing challenge is finding the perfect tent. I know I want a small two-man tent for solo use. And I know the features I want:

Two side doors with two vestibules, with fly doors designed not to drip in the tent and able to be easily restrained fully open for increases air flow and view.
Symmetrical, so there is no need to put specific pole ends into specific slots or hurriedly put the rainfly on backwards.
Dependably dry, and I’ll accept some extra weight in a more waterproof floor.
Dependable zippers. The lighter-weight the tent the more frail the zippers seem to be. I accept the weight there too.
Wind resistant, but without necessitating overly complex poles and guy lines.
Packable small. And packable smart; I wish more tents came with a duffel or burrito-style “stuff” bag that opens on top instead of an end bag.
Spidered poles, and clips. And no dang sleeves.
Webbing tensioners on the corners of the rainfly body to take up any slack from moisture sag.
A couple of pockets. More than a couple of tie-points inside the tent for stringing line or hanging light. And I’d like those interior ties to be something easy to thread a line through, not a teensy piece of flat webbing that requires dental instruments to get open.
And, lastly, large amounts of mesh wall. I’m a warm sleeper and use a mostly mesh tent all season long. I like the air circulation and more open view, especially when sleeping with the vestibules open or chanced leaving the rainfly off completely in areas without a heavy morning dew.

I've been very pleased with my Nemo Losi 3P, which has won many awards and meets just about all of your criteria. I also got the custom footprint, (innie) pawprint, and huge gear loft. With the 12-pocket wall and gear loft, the storage and hanging space is massive. Because of the near-vertical walls facilitated by the two brow ridge poles, it's the most capacious tent for it's footprint I've seen, and quite light for all that space. The vestibules can be opened half way or rolled all the way to the tent. One downside, as with all highly mesh tents, it may not be good for blowing dust desert camping.

The Losi 2P is smaller and lighter, but I like space and the extra pound or so didn't matter to me for canoe camping.

 

[Guest]

My first generation HH is on its last legs and if I knew that the third gen had a beefier zipper and a better floor I’d opt for that, despite the feature description “Unified hub-and-pole system with color-coded clips” That color-coded business makes me think the tent/fly isn’t symmetrical, and color-blind me abhors that reference system.
.

I played with the tent some more. It is color coded, but it's apparent on the solo version without looking at the color code which way the fly goes.

I decided the solo version is too tight. Going to return for the Hubba Hubba. Only a pound more and the same packed size - and I know I won't go nuts!

The Hubba Hubba is technically symmetrical* i.e. it is a mirror image about it's center plane. The problem is, that if you rotate a mirror imaged object, it won't be same on the other side. The fly definitely has a direction. The inner doors and the fly doors both open on the same end (if they were opposite, then it wouldn't matter the orientation of the fly). Kind of stupid that they designed it this way - it could have easily been a foolproof setup. I think if you pay attention to the orientation of the doors and not the color coded tethers, you should be able to always put it up correctly.

One thing I did play with with the solo version was the 'fast and light setup'. I'd rather sleep in the mesh to keep the bugs out, but for a quick rain shelter to wait out a storm, this is what I'd use. I can pop this sucker up quicker than I can set up my tarp - it takes all of about 2 min to get the footprint and the fly attached to the single pole system. I'd also use to cook under in camp if it was raining. The tent portion can be added without taking it all down so one could switch from shelter mode to sleep mode fairly easily.

I'm really impressed with these tents. I love the way the whole vesti rolls up out of the way. The vents are nice too.

*It is symmetrical lengthwise, not widthwise. If it were both, it would not have a specific fly orientation.

 

[Odyssey]

A few years ago, someone in our family thought it'd be fun and rewarding to send round a set of questions found in some kind of personal growth touchy feely type quiz. Maybe it was to get to know each other better, and to bare our souls. I goofed off instead and posted joke answers, just for a giggle. I likely inadvertently revealed some personal foibles without even realizing. Anyway, I steered well clear of the question regarding the greatest fear or dread a person might have. I didn't want to bare my soul that much. Our son # 1 answered : ineptitude. He dreaded feeling inept. Apparently he's wrestled with this demon his whole life. When I read his response I knew we shared this same weight on our shoulders. (We both fight the same dark cloud I'd rather not talk about.) It's not a matter of being perfect, nor being the best at something. The crushing feeling of total and inept failure is humiliating, and confidence destroying. It's funny, because he's one of the most capable young men anywhere. He just doesn't feel it. Where I'm going with this is, this fear of failure affects what and how I do things, and even the gear I choose for canoe camping. Simple and efficient, uncomplicated but effective, works best for me. Not only for the trip, but also for my own peace of mind. Tarps that don't tear, tents that don't leak, knots that don't loosen, packs that don't fail...aaah, that f word. Fail. Accidents are part of life. Mistakes are human. No problem, but my failures to me, feel soul destroying. I tell my kids that failure is a process, not a final result. A momentary stop on a journey, not a destination. Don't give up, but learn from mistakes on our way to success. Easy to say, but hard to remember. When the little things go wrong on a trip, a seam leaks, I slip on a paddle stroke, I burn the bannock, that danged black cloud sitting on my shoulders gets heavier. Humiliation pushes away any sunshiny feelings, and self doubt looms over me. Those moments are fewer and further between as the trips add up and the years fly by. Learning from others like you all here, equip me with knowledge to kick that demon up the arse, and out of our canoe trips. Small successes boost self confidence, not in a "look at me!" way, but in a " I can do this" way. Those are adding up over the years.
I genuinely hope none of you know what I'm talking about. If anyone does, well, you're not alone. The laid back and supportive nature of folks around here, non combative and uncompetitive, helps to keep canoeing people heading out there, and encourages non-canoers (new word, I just made it up, sorry spell check) to pick up a paddle and try. Sloshy slipping shoes, dribbling leaky seams, a heavy as lead canoe, and smoky sputtering fires should bring determined grins to faces, not pained grimaces.
Sorry for the this wordy blabber. That's enough of my bared soul for awhile. The sun is out, and I think I'll get out to chase away any dark clouds. Later I'll go through our cluttered gear to think about our first trip, still many weeks away. No sense in taking any chances. I've got some seams to seal and stuff to sort out. There'll be no room for that dreaded f word on our next canoe trip.
Brad

 

[Guest]

Wow! I was away working for a few days and come back to find a lot to read on this thread!

Thanks Mihun09 for picking up my slack on the tent cot picture.

Those Baffin Amazon shoes are very intriguing. Seems like a great design for drying the shoe relatively quick.

yellowcanoe,
You said this, "There are items I rue the passing of like the original OR compression dry bags." Which dry bags are you referring to? Do you have a picture? Are they not made any more?

 

[Odyssey]

Okay, I don't know how I missed that tent cot thing. I must've been away. It's an interesting idea, but gosh it's heavy, 56 lbs. I won't criticize anyone who chooses to try it. Once upon a time, we tripped with cast iron fry pans. Two of them. Can you believe it?! I carried them, she cooked on them. One time, I briefly fell under the Tupperware spell. I think my wife came home from one of those parties, and I used them for food storage for the very next trip. Standing next to the campfire with now empty containers, the silly notion of hauling home empty plastic boxes sunk home. I just had to laugh.
Not quite in the same thread of thought or topic, I very recently tried something new (to us). Along the lines of a Mike M truck outfitting idea, I bought an inflatable mattress for my minivan. The built in air pump works well from the dash outlet, and inflates/deflates in 60 sec. Awkwardly timed put-ins and take-outs mean we can sleep in quick comfort, without pitching a tent; especially in foul weather.

Thanks Gavia, you are deeply insightful, and very clearly experienced in helping with these matters. "Letting go" has more meaning than I will ever say. I will say yes, it has brought profound peace.
Thanks friend

 

[yellowcanoe]

No Title

Forester and overnight... Trouble is you have to rearrange everything.. and its tight unless you are five two. at least the seats fold flat. I have had to put stuff outside and hope it didn't walk as I slept. So I offer these.

 

[Guest]

My parents had a VW bus camper for a short while when I was young. It was horrible. Broke down constantly and it could barely pull it's own weight.

Stick with the Forester and buy a good tent!

 

[Guest]

The Hubba Hubba is technically symmetrical* i.e. it is a mirror image about it's center plane. The problem is, that if you rotate a mirror imaged object, it won't be same on the other side. The fly definitely has a direction. The inner doors and the fly doors both open on the same end (if they were opposite, then it wouldn't matter the orientation of the fly). Kind of stupid that they designed it this way - it could have easily been a foolproof setup. I think if you pay attention to the orientation of the doors and not the color coded tethers, you should be able to always put it up correctly.

*It is symmetrical lengthwise, not widthwise. If it were both, it would not have a specific fly orientation.

I think (at least I hope) that you will find that is not the case with the Hubba Hubba. It wasn’t so on my first generation HH. The tent body was symmetrical and the fly orientation did not matter. Doing away with that symmetry on the HH would have been a really bad design change, and I trust MSR not to do something that lessens the ease of set up and functionality of the tent.

I can see the rational for making the more slender solo Hubba tent body wider at the “top” for more shoulder room.

I think you’ll be pleased with the HH NX. I use a large sleeping pad and still have 6” of room on either side.

I bought my first generation HH at a discount when MSR came out with the second generation. Now that they have come out with the third gen HH NX for 2014 I’ll keep an eye on REI Outlet and other discounter sites and see if I can pick up a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] generation HH on sale.

 

[Guest]

I think (at least I hope) that you will find that is not the case with the Hubba Hubba. It wasn’t so on my first generation HH. The tent body was symmetrical and the fly orientation did not matter. Doing away with that symmetry on the HH would have been a really bad design change, and I trust MSR not to do something that lessens the ease of set up and functionality of the tent.

I can see the rational for making the more slender solo Hubba tent body wider at the “top” for more shoulder room.

I think you’ll be pleased with the HH NX. I use a large sleeping pad and still have 6” of room on either side.

I bought my first generation HH at a discount when MSR came out with the second generation. Now that they have come out with the third gen HH NX for 2014 I’ll keep an eye on REI Outlet and other discounter sites and see if I can pick up a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] generation HH on sale.

I still see the 2nd gen for sale - haven't looked at the price though.

I'm pretty sure they made it directional, not sure why? I'll have it on Thursday so I'll know for sure then. Then off to the Adirondacks for a week to test it out.

The fly orientation doesn't bother me. All my tents have had to be orientated.

 

[memaquay]

Since there has been some wandering thoughts on this thread, I think I'll stick my paddle in…..(cue up Bob Seger "Like a Rock" to get full effect) When i first started serious canoe tripping, in my early 30's, I had nothing for gear. I had a good canoe, that I had built, but not much else. Canadian tire 40 dollar tent that I threw a blue tarp over every night, cheap old air mattress, really cheap old chinese canvas bags, a single propane burner i bought at the grocery store, the list of budget equipment goes on and on. I had no quick dry cloths, used to go to the Salvation army and buy old dress pants for trips. My sleeping bag was a Canadian Tire special too. Carried way more booze than food. But there was a small group of us who got out every summer, and cleared ports and did some very serious trips. We paddled through stuff that would probably keep me on shore now, and at that time I was able to portage massive loads. Life was good, we were having the best times, all the trips were memorable and major topics for discussion whenever we got together.

Now I have a hard time finding anyone who will trip, other than my one stalwart buddy who accompanies me with the school trips. I think that naive joy of pushing it to the max every day with very little concern has been lost. Problem is I still want to do it, but if i do, it's not enjoyable, and I suffer like a beat dog for pushing it. I often think i could get it back if I get better gear, certainly on the canoe side. If I had one of those 30 pound feathers, ah, dare to dream………

 

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure they made it directional, not sure why? I'll have it on Thursday so I'll know for sure then. Then off to the Adirondacks for a week to test it out.

The fly orientation doesn't bother me. All my tents have had to be orientated.

When you get the HH NX please let me know about the fly symmetry and direction set up.

Being color blind the color coded pole and slot thing doesn’t work well for me.

And even if I get the fly oriented correctly I sometimes discover that what I had intended as the head of the bed ends up being the foot for various unforeseen reasons.

 

[Guest]

Since there has been some wandering thoughts on this thread, I think I'll stick my paddle in…..(cue up Bob Seger "Like a Rock" to get full effect) When i first started serious canoe tripping, in my early 30's, I had nothing for gear. I had a good canoe, that I had built, but not much else. Canadian tire 40 dollar tent that I threw a blue tarp over every night, cheap old air mattress, really cheap old chinese canvas bags, a single propane burner i bought at the grocery store, the list of budget equipment goes on and on. I had no quick dry cloths, used to go to the Salvation army and buy old dress pants for trips. My sleeping bag was a Canadian Tire special too. Carried way more booze than food. But there was a small group of us who got out every summer, and cleared ports and did some very serious trips. We paddled through stuff that would probably keep me on shore now, and at that time I was able to portage massive loads. Life was good, we were having the best times, all the trips were memorable and major topics for discussion whenever we got together.

Now I have a hard time finding anyone who will trip, other than my one stalwart buddy who accompanies me with the school trips. I think that naive joy of pushing it to the max every day with very little concern has been lost. Problem is I still want to do it, but if i do, it's not enjoyable, and I suffer like a beat dog for pushing it. I often think i could get it back if I get better gear, certainly on the canoe side. If I had one of those 30 pound feathers, ah, dare to dream………

Perfect soundtrack for that little tale... Ha!

Reminds me a lot of my first winter backpacking trip... my first backpacking trip actually was in winter!

I was horribly unprepared - but I was 14 or 15? and my parents didn't have much money so I scraped up what I could. I bought an old, off brand pack from a friend who had upgraded. I had some maybe 40deg sleeping bag that my parents used for car camping that weighed a ton and barely fit into my new pack. I didn't have any wool or synthetic long underwear. No stove, no headlamp, and crapty Sorel boots (sorry, but those things aren't very good). I did happen to have a space blanket though, and that probably saved my arse.

I went out with some friends who were more prepared than me and I froze my arse off. It sucked, but I liked it.

Started going more and more (with a better sleeping bag though). I can't remember what I replaced that turd I had with, but I must have found something better - I know I bought a real good 0° bag eventually, but that was down the road.

So anyway I started amassing gear. Essentials first - sleeping pad, bag, clothing. Then I bought my own stove, water filter, etc. Eventually I wound up with a 4 man tent which I used to carry - God that thing was heavy!

What I had wasn't the lightest or the best, but it did the trick. I got around pretty good with it.

When my wife started to get interested in canoe camping is when I decided it was time to start investing in new gear. My old wore out stuff from HS wasn't going to meet both our needs... and I soon found out the simpler, lighter and easier my gear was to use, the more she wanted to go and the easier it was for me. I was, of course, the one fussing with most of the stuff.

We went car camping over the Holiday and met my sister. She didn't have much so we brought her a tent and sleeping bags, etc. We also brought a two burner stove, my portable Weber grill, and a canopy. Oh and we brought two canoes and all our paddles. Christ on a cracker I didn't think we were going to fit it all! But hey, we had gear for everyone!

My wife used to prefer car camping. Now after that she mentioned how much she appreciates just throwing a couple packs in the car, the canoe on the rack, and heading off for a few days.

Sometimes good gear just makes your life simpler. Sometimes it is for comfort. I strive for those two. The simpler it is, the more likely I'm going to keep using it, the more comfortable it is, the more days I'm going to spend out.

​Light is good, but it isn't everything IMO. I try to keep from killing myself on our excursions - I have to remember it is a vacation afterall, and I should relax. So slowing down a bit isn't the end of the world - I'm a go, go, go guy... luckily my wife is slow, slow, slow - so it balances me out a bit.

 

[stripperguy]

Wow, Soggy, I bet you didn't expect such a wide range of responses, deep and otherwise!!
In reading some of the responses, I have become somewhat retrospective...I'm at a physical age where most guys (and gals) are trapped by their lounge chairs. I happen to be blessed and cursed with a body and mind that has thus far held up well to a wide variety of punishment.
But, I recently question how much longer I can continue the types of trips and activities that I enjoy so much. Most of my adult life I've had to compromise and slow down to everyone else's pace...maybe that has kept me intact. I do see a time when I won't be capable of 5 mile carries and day long paddlewhacks.
And what then?? Am I defined by who and what I was at an earlier age?? Or can I accept a decline in challenge and slow down even more??
If I expect to continue, I suppose I'll have to compromise some more.

 

[Guest]

Light is good, but it isn't everything IMO..

Light is good. Light but still durable and functional is better.

I’'m reminded of the BA Copper Spur 1-man tent a friend brought on a multi-week trip. That tent had been on a single 4-week trip in the past and this time out the zippers failed on the first night.

We hit an REI on the road to replace it and, when told the reason for return, the (quite knowledgeable) sales person immediately responded “"Oh, yeah, you have to treat those Copper Spurs like fine china”".

Beyond the one month use zipper failure the design was badly flawed – the end-entrance rainfly door was guaranteed to drip water into the tent when opened. I’'m not trying to diss Big Agnes; I like some of their stuff.

I’'m curious what the mm water proof measurement is for the Hubba Hubba NX or previous iteration.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Interesting. While I love gear shops my HH is gen1. It's got a couple of split pole sections and mended screen but it works. No need to upgrade to newest I don't like all the mesh and the bundle of poles for spring and fall use. The poles are a big cold ice cube and not mitten friendly. OTOH you can't lose them. Ice had HH since 2006 or seven. I save all my old gear and have finished my diversion into synthetic sleeping bags. Now back to using a 1960s Gerry that was idle some years. Ferry is here