(Another) help me find a new solo canoe

[yellowcanoe]

Well, visited Hornbeck today. 3 1/2 hours each way, and first half was in a blizzard with white outs. On April 22.

Started with a new tricks 14. Quickly figured out it would never be for me. Far too little initial stability. Never felt comfortable for one stroke i n a couple of laps around the pond.

Then tried a classic 14. At least I stayed dry, or didn't get wetter. Tried my packs, and found I'd have to change one completely.
Ultimately I concluded pack style canoes are not for me. I just fit better and feel comfortable on a bench seat. So the search continues.

Hornbeck and the people seem wonderful. Great and valuable experience.

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Water time water time.. Hornbecks have the most primary stability among any solo canoe. You need at least an hour to judge a new boat. That said keep up your search but if you sit on a bench seat you are inherently less stable with a raised center of gravity.
Pack canoes are deckless kayaks and are renown for their stability in waves. You can get used to a new way of entry in time and the uneasy feeling will go away.. There are few flatbottomed solo canoes.. The picture of Marc heeling his solo an Illusion, is not a pic of a flat bottom boat as someone said it is but illustrates secondary stability..
What works in the Adirondacks works in the BWCA.

 

[billconner]

Or I can just learn to turn my Tranq and save a lot of $ and keep my current gear.

I did find the Esquif Echo and Swift Prospector much more stable, both bench seats. Not at all comfortable sitting with legs straight.

 

[gumpus]

I bet that Tranq will turn if you use a bow wedge but there are no guarantees about you staying in the boat.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I bet that Tranq will turn if you use a bow wedge but there are no guarantees about you staying in the boat.

It doesn't been there and tried it even heeled to the outside. Went about 60 degrees but not like my WildFire where the same maneuver turns 180 or more.. So while it may turn enough for tripping purposes I would go insane on the Oswegatchie with that boat. ( got lots of 170 degree turns). Plus in a tripping situation who wants to heel a hull to the rail?

 

[dschult2]

I'll say it again. Swift Prospector 14 with adjustable height seat pod and either carbon foot bar or kayak foot braces. You won't regret it regardless of price

 

[billconner]

The Swift Prospector 14 was first on my list after test paddling 4 or 5 at Paddlefest. May have to return to it. Loaded with wish list options - everything carbon - it was around $5500. (Do I get carbon credits?). I should try their Keewaydin 15 again.

I liked the Nighthawk Canoes Columba, but probably not much different than my Tranq. .

Thank you all for your input!

 

[Mason]

Man, you're all over the board! Trying to decide between the 16' Columba and a 14' Prospector??? And you want a durable (T Formex?), maneuverable river boat that doesn't weigh much? Good luck with your inner demons. Now maybe if they made adjustable boats......

 

[billconner]

I think I pointed out why the Columba is wrong other than as a replacement for my Tranq, which I'll still prefer and use for flatwater like Q and Bdub and wide rivers that don't meander much. And the Echo was nice to paddle but too heavy. 13' seems unsuitable for me and gear, so 14' with moderate - 1 to 1 1/2" - rocker, and under 35 pounds, under 30 if possible. The tranq is only 28" wide but probably will be 30 to 32". Not after speed. Bench seat. I could try a Hemlock Peregrine, but could be a little skittish for me.

So my thoughts wander but think they lead to a pretty narrow group of canoes. Perhaps a career of building design and construction where projects lasted from 3 to 10+ years allows me to take time. (And just this minute received a request to do one more project - renovation of one I did in 1989.)

 

[gumpus]

After reading the whole story again I agree that the Swift Prospector 14 is for you. For sure that Columba makes no sense. Prospector 14 is stable and turns nicely with just a gentle lean. It has less rocker than most Prospectors which helps the stability. It's not as good of a lake boat as a Kee15 but you already have a lake boat. Prospector 14 efficient load range goes up to 400 pounds so it can easily handle your load. 41 pounds in Expedition Kevlar with aluminum trim and "only" $2895 US. You do need the carbon foot brace. If you want to spend a little money to save some weight get the carbon gunwales....34 pounds or maybe 35ish with foot brace. You don't want the carbon tech package because it's expensive and not as strong and you'll be OK with a 35 pound boat.

Let us know if you have any other questions.

 

[billconner]

Why do I want the foot braces? And is it the Kayak Footbrace or the Carbon Footbar you are recommending? And website says only available with carbon trim, not aluminium, at least that's how I read it.

Only sorry "Canada Package" is not available with the expedition layup. . Very spiffy.

I'm coming to similar conclusion.

 

[dschult2]

Why do I want the foot braces? And is it the Kayak Footbrace or the Carbon Footbar you are recommending? And website says only available with carbon trim, not aluminium, at least that's how I read it.

Only sorry "Canada Package" is not available with the expedition layup. . Very spiffy.

I'm coming to similar conclusion.

Foot braces are nice if you are using a double bladed paddle, even in the upper seat height position, which I do quite often. But if you don't [lan on using a double blade at all you wouldn't need them, nor the seat pod for that matter. But my way of thinking is your spending a good amount of money anyway so you might as well get it them because you never know what you want to do in the future. Personal preference on what one you would want. Footbar lets you put your feet in different positions kayak braces let you put more gear in front of you or a dog perhaps. Pretty sure you can call Swift and tell them what you want and they will build to order and even ship it to you (not free though). I think it was an extra $300 for me in Michigan. Probably a little cheaper where your at though. Worth it. Great company to work with.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Footbars are back savers for sitting on a seat paddlers. They allow you to counter the force forward that a strong paddle stroke puts on your body. Matters not if it is single or double blade. Canted seats serve much the same function. Kayak foot pegs are placed low to allow sit on the bottom paddlers with either single or double blade.

 

[billconner]

I use a double blade in my Tranq most of the time and haven't missed them. Didn't use them in the Hornbecks. Hmmm...

 

[Guest]

Why do I want the foot braces? And is it the Kayak Footbrace or the Carbon Footbar you are recommending?

I use a double blade in my Tranq most of the time and haven't missed them. Didn't use them in the Hornbecks. Hmmm...

I’ll second (third, fourth) the recommendation to have and use a footbrace. We have an adjustable foot brace in every boat, all but one open canoe has the bar style.

For the bracing optimization when seated paddling, efficiency, comfort and relief of core muscle overuse I want a foot brace in every canoe. But you do you.

Back to the Find a New Canoe recommendations I’m with Zac, dschult2 and Gumpus, a 14’ to 15’ solo seated Prospector seems a likely choice.

 

[Alan Gage]

Another foot brace fan. Wouldn't be without it. Any time I paddle a canoe without one I'm constantly trying to find a comfortable position for my feet/legs. Not only comfort but it's hard to paddle hard without something to brace my feet on and it greatly adds to stability.

While I can see getting by without a brace with a raised seat I can't imagine trying to sit on the floor of a pack canoe with no brace. Actually I can imagine because I've done it and it's anything but comfortable.

Alan

 

[billconner]

Swift's foot brace is US$300. Yikes.

Arranging a test paddle at a US dealer. Might try Kee 14 if they have one.

I thought someone said aluminum trim over carbon, but carbon saves 7 pounds! 41 in slum and 34 in carbon (fits my backpacking rule of $100/pound - replacing gear for lighter)

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[Guest]

Another foot brace fan. Wouldn't be without it. Any time I paddle a canoe without one I'm constantly trying to find a comfortable position for my feet/legs. Not only comfort but it's hard to paddle hard without something to brace my feet on and it greatly adds to stability.

Alan, the same. When I test paddle friend’s canoes without a foot brace the closest feeling I can equate is starting to drive the truck or van without a wearing a seat belt . An instant feeling Something is missin?. What do I do with my feet?

Since I do not often drop to my knees I like using a low, flexible back band (Surf to Summit) in conjunction with a foot brace bar. With those oppositional forces I feel well locked into the canoe in most any conditions.

If a foot brace didn’t come with the canoe I’d add one of these, with the bar sized for the hull:

https://www.rutabagashop.com/products/tandem-footbraces

And one of these:

https://www.surftosummit.com/collect...ance-back-band

Those two things and some minicel padding and I can comfortably stay in the canoe all day long, and the back band can be swapped around and clipped into other canoes.

 

[billconner]

Never had a seat back either. Never bothered me, even on a 6 to 8 hr paddle day. Tried one once or twice and didn't like it.

My legs are either feet flat on hull (most), legs crossed at ankles and heels almost under seat, or legs out stretched straight (least).

 

[gumpus]

Hey Bill. I just assumed that if you're not a kneeler then you'd want the carbon foot brace to help hold you in place and give you something to push against. I've always been a kneeler so I don't really know...I recently bought a used Magic as my first sitting boat since I have one knee that hurts when kneeling for extended periods but in the Magic I can brace my toes against the front thwart. It seems to help me to have something to brace against.

I would never recommend anything kayak related like kayak foot braces. ?

I took a Prospector 14 for a good long test paddle and when kneeling it seemed to almost resist being leaned way over but I remember it turned well with just a gentle lean so seems great for a sitting paddler (stable and cooperative).

I'm not sure of the options they offer with every lay-up but they were ready to sell me a carbon foot brace for my Shearwater before I sold it so I'd be surprised if they wouldn't sell you a foot brace on an Expedition Kevlar lay-up.

It does seem pretty amazing (to me at least) that you can get a solo with 400 pound "efficient" capacity in an expedition lay-up that weighs 34 pounds (without footbrace).

Best wishes with your search.

 

[gumpus]

Well if you don't need a foot brace you can skip it. You could always add one later...Wenonah makes a good design that can be glued or riveted in for under $100.

Everyone is different but the Kee14 didn't excite me at all when I tried it but I do like the 15. Pic shows my Guide Fusion Kee15 after pulling over the tree that some schmuck dropped to block a local river.