• Happy Birthday, Robert Wadlow (1918-40)! 8️⃣–1️⃣1️⃣

Lofting Canoe Molds from CanoeCraft tables

Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
1,099
Reaction score
805
Location
Bowmanville, Ontario
Lofting Canoe Molds from CanoeCraft tables

Preamble, Preamble ... I was going to use a BearMountain post I made, to answer a question here and it looks like the site is no longer functional. So I am posting the original from 2015 here to add to the DIY collection and have it available for reference.
Note: Corrections applied (20 Feb 2025) to converted values in
Adding Points from Table of Half-Breadths: Step 11&12, Step14&15 and step 17&18
Making the Stern Mold Drawing : Step 4&5



Preamble
It's winter, my garage isn't heated, I have a stripped Kipawa just waiting for fiberglass and it is currently -18C here .... what else is there to do, but plan my next canoe. I could just buy the plans (I will anyway), but that still wouldn't give me anything to do .... so I decided I would try and loft them from CanoeCraft (selected the Freedom 17).
(Note: The above was from 2014, I got sidetracked, Kipawa is completed and am finishing this in the winter of 2015)
This turned out to be a bit of a challenge, there didn't appear to be much in the forums but more questions on how to loft (likely my inability to search), most of the references I found were overkill for what I wanted, I did manage to find a few very helpful videos (notably from Jason Ekes, worth looking up). It has taken a few weeks (quite a few actually) to get enough information to feel confident enough to buy materials and make a few trials of what I thought I knew ... I will admit I wasted a few sheets of paper figuring out how to fix what I thought I knew.

My purpose here, is to share what I learned, on how to use the Lofting Tables for canoe building, which is pretty straight forward and not too complicated. It might be useful for a those folks trying to make sense of the tables, at the very least I have learned a new basic skill.

To be clear, I am not an expert, don't profess to have anything but a rudimentary grasp of the process and what you see here is my interpretation and application of what I have been able to learn and apply.


Materials Required
- grid paper at least 24" x 36" (Staples - Quartet® Graph Bond Flip Chart Easel Pad, 24" x 36", 50 Sheets ~$15)
- This paper is ruled in 1" squares
- straightedge, 36" with 1/16"divisions (Home Depot $9)
- large flat work surface
- fine tip heavy markers, pencils
- Canoecraft tables for Freedom 17 (there are 4... Heights, Half-Breadths, Bow Stem, Stern Stem)
- make sure to check for corrections, for the Freedom 17 there is just one ... Station 1, WL18 correct 0-10-0+ to 0-01-0+

Pic1.JPG

General Notes/Observations
When setting up the baseline (line everything is measured from), a bit of room is needed to elevate the molds higher than the sheer line.I am using 2", but this value is flexible, it just needs to be the same for all stations. If you want the stations to have a higher clearance (sheer to strongback), just increase this value to whatever you want.... just remember that this will also raise the top of the canoe and you have to reach and work there eventually.

One of the points of confusion I had, was the relationship of the "Table of Half-Breadths" (ToHB) and the "Table of Heights" (ToH).
What I have found is that they both describe the same shape, but from a different perspective. The halfbreadths are measured from the centreline out (waterline), while the heights are measured from the baseline down (butt).

Effectively, the mold can be made from either table or both. So ... to be clear, if you plot the "table of halfbreadths", you will get the correct shape and if you plot the "table of heights" you will get the correct shape. The data is not the same, and each set of points is different, but each describes the same shape.

I plotted all the points to get a better (more points) defined shape. Once you have plotted one complete mold, you will see that "Halfbreadths" gives more points near the sheer and "Heights" gives more points nearest the keel.

Making a Mold Drawing

Initial Page Setup

1. Lay the easel on the flat surface, long ways perpendicular to yourself
2. Pick the station number you want to make, I suggest a middle section to start with
- from CanoeCraft, I will use the Freedom 17 Station 13, as an example
3. From the bottom, measure up 2" on the left and right edges and put a dot
- Draw a line through the dots (full width) , I used a marker, but a pencil will work as well
- Label this line as "B" for Baseline
4. Measure to the middle of the sheet, locate the vertical line closest to centre
- draw a line (full vertical) and label "C" for centre
5. Starting where the baseline and centerline intersect, make and label hash marks, every 2", along the Baseline
6. Repeat the hash marking along the center line starting at the intersect

This is a pic of what it should look like. This was done on a table top, I found it easiest to work with the base nearest me, later I worked on an easel and found it easier to work from the top down ... both ways work just fine

PIC2.JPG

Adding the Sheer Line
7. From the "Table of Heights", Station 13, locate the value for "Sheer"
- these values are organized as feet-inches-eigths with a plus sign indicating 1/16"
- historically I read that measuring rulers only went as fine as eighths, so the "+" indicated "and a bit" which was 1/16"
- in this case it is 0-06-2+ ,so 0 feet + 6 inches + 2/8" + 1/16", which summed up is 6 5/16"
8. From the baseline, measure up 6 5/16" on the left side, make a dot and repeat on the right side
- distance left and right doesn't matter, generally closer to the edge is easier
- use the ruler to draw a line full width through the dots, label it as "Sheer"
9. One other value for Station 13 is taken from here and that is the "Profile", this is the height of the mold along the centreline
- in the ToHs locate the "Profile" line (bottom), the value for Station 13 is 1-07-6+ or 19 13/16"
10. Measure from the Baseline along the centreline, 19 13/16" and make a hash mark. make a notation that this is the profile
- this will be the maximum height of this mold.

Should look like this now, this pic doesn't show the "Profile" point, it will show up in a later picture ...

PIC3.JPG

Adding Points from Table of Half-Breadths
- The first point will be the sheer line, we have drawn in where the sheer occurs horizontally, we will now add where it stops
11. Looking at the ToHB under Station 13, using the value for "Sheer", we find 0-10-2+, this is 10 5/16" (0 feet plus 10" plus 2/8 plus 1/16")
12. From the Centreline, measure right along the "Sheer" we established earlier (step 8) and make a mark at 10 5/16"
13. Repeat step 10 going left

- The column down the left side of the table is labeled as "WL" (waterline) and gives horizontal values from the centreline at 2" intervals
- looking up the value of station 13 at WL2, yields a blank space, which makes sense, because the sheer is located at 6 5/16", so there is no canoe at that location

14. WL8 is the first value in the ToHB (for ST 13) and it is 0-10-2+ ... so this is 0' plus 10" plus 2/8" plus 1/16 ... or 10 5/16"
15. Using the horizontal gridline at the centreline 8" mark (WL8), measure 10 5/16" left and make a mark, repeat for the right side
16. Repeat this process for WL10 through WL18

Should look like this now, I mark WL points with a circle with a horizontal line, this makes it easier to check points later that don't seem right

PIC4.JPG

Adding points from the Table of Heights
- The ToHs values are measured from the baseline markers, vertically and are called the Butt measure
17. Looking up the Butt 2" value we find it is 1-07-4+ or 19 9/16"
18. From the right hand 2" hash marker, on the baseline, measure vertically along 19 9/16" and make a mark
19. Repeat from the left hand 2" hash mark
19. Repeat for the Butt values at 4 and 6"
20. You can add all the Butt points, but I found that usually only a few points are needed to fill in points near the keel
21. If you intend to add a waterline marker on your actual molds, this is the time to add the line to the mold, for the Freedom 17, this is at WL 16". This will be a line on the graph paper, so measure along and make a hash line at 16" and label it as the Waterline
22. Repeat this process for all the station molds.

This pic includes the new points, waterline and the profile mark that was missing from the previous pic, I also mark each point with a circle and vertical line, again, just to be able to identify where the point came from in case it needs to be checked. You can make half molds and mirror to make the whole mold or you can chose to make the whole mold. I have chosen to make the whole mold, largely to support how I intend to transfer the shape to the actual wood molds (covered as we amble along).

pic5.JPG

The next bit is how to handle the Bow and Stern molds, this turned out to be interesting ... read that as I wasted a lot of paper.

Making a Bow or Stern Mold Drawing
These actually took the most "figuring" to execute properly and I did consume a few (quite a few) sheets getting it right.
Some things to note:
- the Bow and Stern tables are to the outside of the inner stem ... that is 3/4" more than we want
- you can't just subtract 3/4" from the measurements, as they are following a radius, so it won't be that simple
- there is more than 1 way to accomplish this, I will present the one I used
- the bow and stern assemblies work with 2 regular mold stations (0 & 1 for Bow, 15 & 16 for Stern), this is for the Freedom 17 and may vary for other models
- These directions will assume you have made a couple of Mold drawing and some of the plotting detail will be dropped
- For this section I have moved to the workshop and setup an easel, so I will be working from the top down

Making the Stern Mold Drawing
1. Draw the baseline 2" from the top of the sheet
2. Draw the Waterline 2" from the right side of the page (not the centre this time)
3. Mark in and label the 2" hash lines from were the lines intersect
- the Waterline is were Station 15 is located in relation to the stern, they will butt together on the strongback (eventually)
- Station 16 will be located 12" to the left of the Waterline (or Station 15)
4. Lookup the Profile value for Station 15 from the ToHs (1-07-2+ or 19 5/16")
5. Mark a dash on the waterline at 19 5/16" ... this marks the top of Station 15
6. Measure up 3/4" from the profile Hash you just made and make another hash and label it as Stern profile point, this is the profile mark (max height) for the stern (the inner stem will be on the stern mold and mold plus stem must match the ST 15 Profile)
7. Lookup the sheerline value (ToHs) for station 15 (0-04-6 or 4 3/4"), mark this on the waterline and label it as Station 15 Sheer
8. Measure over 12" from the waterline and make a dashed vertical line from the baseline down about 10" and label it Station 16
9. Lookup Sheerline line value (ToHs) for station 16 (0-03-5 or 3 5/8"), measure down the station 16 line and make a hash mark at 3 5/8" and label as Station 16 sheerline
10. Place a straightedge on the sheer marks for Station 15 & 16, draw a dashed line from the waterline to about the 20" line on the baseline, this is the sheerline for the stern mold
11. Locate the table of "Distance from Station 15 to aft edge of inside stern stem"
12. First point, WL 2" is 1-05-2+ or 17 5/16", measure left and place a dot
13. Repeat for WL4 through WL18

Your drawing should look something like this at this point, minus the second set of circled dots. The fainter dots to the left of the circles are plotted from the table, the circled dots are corrected for the 3/4" of the inner stern stem ( I didn't have a progressive picture without both sets).

Pic6.JPG

Now we need to correct for the presence of the inner stem.
- requires a 3/4" batten, about 8-10" long ... but exactly 3/4" wide
- for the example, I am using a set of points on the section where the stern bends, as it demonstrates the method best
14. Locate the dots for WL 14 and WL 16, align the left upper corner of the batten with the WL14 dot, align the batten edge with the WL16 dot
15. The right upper corner is now the exact corrected location for the WL14 dot, mark it and circle it
16. Repeat this process to relocate each dot location, when you get to WL18, use the Profile mark (the -3/4" one) on the waterline, as the second alignment dot

I think this pic makes it pretty clear

pic7.JPG

17. Repeat this for the Bow, only change is to move the waterline to the left hand side of the page and use stations 0 & 1 of course

This is what the Bow drawing looks like

pic8.JPG

This gets all the station molds, Bow and Stern molds drawn. I will post more when I start actually making the molds with these drawings.
 
Last edited:
Let's hope this site will be around for a long time.

Amen. That will require increased participation and generosity from members in all future fund drives, plus someone with vigor and available time to become administrator when I quit after the next fund drive in November 2026.

Now, back to the technicalities of lofting canoe molds.
 
Cruiser:

I also "lofted" from table of offsets, but I created a spreadsheet to convert it to X-Y coordinates that put them in the proper order. Used CAD software to create a smooth spline, then exported a CAM file to use on the CNC router. I simply created one template, then made a copy for each station. Enter the data from the table of offsets, and it creates the data table to take directly into the CAD software. Worked great.

Thanks for the idea on what to do with winter blues. I just got a load of Baltic Birch. Maybe I'll cut station forms....
 
Thank you Cruiser for explaining that. I've looked at the lofting measurements in Canoecraft several times, and struggled a little trying to figure it out.
You're a wealth of information. Thank you.
 
Adding Points from Table of Half-Breadths

Adding points from the Table of Heights

Making a Bow or Stern Mold Drawing

Making the Stern Mold Drawing
Hi Cruiser.
This is great! I have almost finished plotting out all the points for the Freedom 17 (I'm doing it digitally). My table of offsets comes from Canoecraft Twelfth printing 2019.
I've found one point that seem to be off in the Table of Half-Breaths. Just wanted to check if you ran in to it as well.
Station 1, WL 18" - table says 0-10-0+ but to my understanding it should say 0-01-0+ (1 1/16")
Station 0, Sheer - table says 0-01-2. It's a small adjustment but I think 0-01-1+ makes more sense and takes away the kink.

When reading the table of offsets, the + sign is confusing at times. Especially after crunching through a whole table of offsets for hours. I struggled with 0-01-1+ which is 1 3/16"
I also struggled with any line that ended with 0+, which of course simply means 1/16".1000009303.jpg
 
Last edited:
Hi Cruiser.
This is great! I have almost finished plotting out all the points for the Freedom 17 (I'm doing it digitally). My table of offsets comes from Canoecraft Twelfth printing 2019.
I've found one point that seem to be off in the Table of Half-Breaths. Just wanted to check if you ran in to it as well.
Station 1, WL 18" - table says 0-10-0+ but to my understanding it should say 0-01-0+ (1 1/16")
Station 0, Sheer - table says 0-01-2. It's a small adjustment but I think 0-01-1+ makes more sense and takes away the kink.

When reading the table of offsets, the + sign is confusing at times. Especially after crunching through a whole table of offsets for hours. I struggled with 0-01-1+ which is 1 3/16"
I also struggled with any line that ended with 0+, which of course simply means 1/16".View attachment 145570
Yup, I mentioned that Station 1 correction value specifically under the Materials Required Section, didn't find that Station 0 correction, but I believe those corrections are likely dependent on the version of CC that you have.

The struggle with that nomenclature, while historically interesting, can be a pita to work with for sure. Just so we are on the same page ... the presented process while generally viable for other lofting tables, was to specifically to address lofting from the CanoeCraft Tables, which does use the "+" for 1/16". The book provides the tables for people to build and I didn't really find much information to walk me through the process .... so I did a walk through.

On my last project I made up my own lofting tables and I certainly didn't have any "+" signs ... but I did still use that general format for the build table.

Brian
 
Yup, I mentioned that Station 1 correction value specifically under the Materials Required Section, didn't find that Station 0 correction, but I believe those corrections are likely dependent on the version of CC that you have.

The struggle with that nomenclature, while historically interesting, can be a pita to work with for sure. Just so we are on the same page ... the presented process while generally viable for other lofting tables, was to specifically to address lofting from the CanoeCraft Tables, which does use the "+" for 1/16". The book provides the tables for people to build and I didn't really find much information to walk me through the process .... so I did a walk through.

On my last project I made up my own lofting tables and I certainly didn't have any "+" signs ... but I did still use that general format for the build table.

Brian
Hi.
Oh I didn't see that you had also found the Station 1 correction. But that's good. Twice confirmed then.
The station 0 correction that I did is just a small adjustment. Pretty obvious once you get the rest of the points for that station down on paper and eye it. The sheer point is pretty close to the WL 2" point, but the sheer steps out, making an abrupt flare in the uppermost 1" of the hull side. Again, it's pretty obvious once you see it so shouldn't be a big deal for anyone when trying to loft and build this.

Reading the + sign can be awkward and it is kind of old school (just like the whole imperial system is lol). I converted the whole table to millimeters with four decimal points as I was lofting. But what's best is probably just what you are used to.
 
Last edited:
Cruiser:

I also "lofted" from table of offsets, but I created a spreadsheet to convert it to X-Y coordinates that put them in the proper order. Used CAD software to create a smooth spline, then exported a CAM file to use on the CNC router. I simply created one template, then made a copy for each station. Enter the data from the table of offsets, and it creates the data table to take directly into the CAD software. Worked great.

Thanks for the idea on what to do with winter blues. I just got a load of Baltic Birch. Maybe I'll cut station forms....
Hi Kliff.
Could you explain how you went about this in more detail?
 
Here's the spreadsheet I created: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ouid=108370353382058499704&rtpof=true&sd=true

It works best for me if I download it as an excel spreasheet, not a Google Sheet.

Feel free to use it. I've included all of the sheets I created for a Prospector 16 from CanoeCraft. Not sure of the edition, I don't have it with me at work. To use the spreadsheet, you really only need the first three sheets: "Temporary Points Only Export", "Read Me First", Station Template.

-Temp points: When importing data from spreadsheet into CAD, it usually wants the data in the first sheet, with X-Y coordinates only. Some software wants X & Y labeled. Some wants measurement units specified. If you get an error, try adding these to the first sheet. For each station, when I imported the points into CAD, I would copy the points from the sheet titled "Station # ordered

-Read Me First: Some instructions on using the workbook

-Station Template: I keep this sheet password protected, just so I don't accidentally change it. The password is in the yellow instruction box.

One issue I ran into on the first set of forms I made which was this set, I used CAD software to create a "Spline" from the points. In CAD terminology, a spline is a fair curve, that connects the points. I created the spline from Shear-Left to Shear Right. This caused the spline to round the profile area slightly. After cutting the stations I realized this. Luckily, the result was bigger than it should be at the profile area. I was able to easily sand to where it should be.

For the second set, I created a spline from shear to profile. I then "mirrored" this spline along the Y-axis to create the other half.

In both cases, I drew a horizontal line to close the bottom of the shape. I added a rectangle below the horizontal line that was the width of my strongback, and used the Y-coordinate for the shear point. This gave all of my stations the proper stand-off from the stong back.

Here's cutting one of the stations:

IMG_1974.jpeg


Here are the stations stacked (you can see the profile area is rounded more than it should be):IMG_1979.jpeg

Here are the forms set up:

IMG_2008.jpeg

The holes on the stem forms I also programmed into the CNC. You could just as easily cut them by hand, but I was already running the CNC. I also use 5/8" Baltic Birch, which is AWESOME for forms. I get about a trailer load a year free. I wouldn't buy it for canoe forms, unless I was planning to make a bunch of the same hull.

Hope this helps.
 
Oh, and regarding getting confused on the formatting of numbers from table of offsets. I consider myself pretty good at math, can easily interpret them in my head, and convert them to decimals. That being said, given the quantity of numbers being manipulated, and the "cost" of an error, I found myself getting "data drunk". I created myself a cheat sheet.

Using the example 1-05-6+ This means 1 foot 5 inches and 6 eigths plus a sixteenth (1'-5 13/16" = 17.8125 inches)

My cheat sheet was from 0+ to 7+. I'd convert feet to inches, add the whole inches, then look at my cheat sheet for the decimal. I'd share a picture of my cheat sheet, but I don't have one.
 
Here's the spreadsheet I created: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ouid=108370353382058499704&rtpof=true&sd=true

It works best for me if I download it as an excel spreasheet, not a Google Sheet.

Feel free to use it. I've included all of the sheets I created for a Prospector 16 from CanoeCraft. Not sure of the edition, I don't have it with me at work. To use the spreadsheet, you really only need the first three sheets: "Temporary Points Only Export", "Read Me First", Station Template.
Thank you for that explanation! I think I will try your method if only I can wrap my head around what you are doing. That link you posted can't be the coordinates for a whole canoe since it's only 18 rows in two columns. If I understand it right those are the coordinates for only one station? Maybe you posted the wrong link?

So your workflow looked something like this then, let me know if I'm getting it thus far:
You first take your Canoecraft book with the table of offsets for the canoe you want to loft. You then convert all those numbers numbers in fraction into decimal numbers and place them into a Excel Spreadsheet according to a certain formula to get them in the correct order. This is then imported in to AutoCAD or other CAD software which automatically throws out the points where they should be. You then trace the points with a Spline curve and try to hit the points as well as possible (or do you automate this process too with a "curve through points" function?) You then mirror that curve to get both sides of the boat. Lastly add the rectangular part from the sheer down to the strongback. That pretty much it?

I have found this video that touches on how to handle the numbers in excel to bring them into Cad or Delftship.
 
Last edited:
Yes, the first sheet that shows when you open the link is only temporary data that gets exported to CAD. I'm most familiar with AutoDesk Inventor for CAD, but I've used several other programs. All of the programs I have used have a spline tool. It connects the imported points with a spline, or fair curve.

You should also see a graph (actually it's a scatter plot) on each sheet titled "Station # Ordered". These are rather distorted, and don't show the true shape of the station. Not even close. It is useful just to verify the points are ordered correctly before exporting. After I have verified they are correct, I copy the X & Y coordinates starting at shear, up to and including profile, and paste them into "Temporary Points".

When I import, it will automatically look at the first sheet, and grab these points. If it's helpful, I can shoot a video some time in the next couple days. Unless you're using AutoDesk Inventor, the video won't be of much use.

On the prospector, I plotted two stations very similar to the way Cruiser explained (rather masterfully). I laid the Hand plotted curve over the CAD curve for comparison. In both cases, SPOT ON, with very minor deviation that I believe is more likely to be error in the hand drawn plot. The forms worked great, and the first canoe does nice circles to the left, so I made one in reverse that does circles to the right.
 
I laid the Hand plotted curve over the CAD curve for comparison. In both cases, SPOT ON, with very minor deviation that I believe is more likely to be error in the hand drawn plot. The forms worked great, and the first canoe does nice circles to the left, so I made one in reverse that does circles to the right.
The reason I ask what method you use to make your curves is that I'm not getting good results when automating this. Simply put, a fair curve will not fit through the points from the table of offsets. Playing around with different degree curves and/or chord settings can make it better but it will always be obviously wonky when all points are intersected by the curve. Here is a comparison between manual method and automated. This is station #10 on the Freedom 17 (from Canoecraft 12th printing). Manual method will create a smooth curve but will have to omit some points. The automated curve is obviously wonky but it hits all the points.


St10man.JPGSt10auto.JPG
 
Last edited:
LOL Jim! You're not helping.

It looks to me like your points aren't in the proper order. My suggestion, look at two sheets in the spreadsheet I shared: Station #, and Station # ordered. The sheet labeled "ordered", I had to manually rearrange a few of the points so they would be in a logical order along the curve. You can't just leave them in sequence of Waterline ascending (4-6-8-10-etc) followed by Butt Decending (16-14-12-etc).

CAD connects the points in the order you give them. If X-values aren't listed in a linear fashion (starts at a big number and progresses towards zero without backing up) you will end up with crazy curves. It's not that hard, once you get the hang of it.

Focus on the X-values only. Do they continue in sequence, without backing up? Either start at a big negative number (left shear) and progress towards zero (profile), or start at a big positive number (right shear) and progress towards zero (profile).

For example, my Prospector Station 0 Butt 16 had to be moved between WL 20 & WL 22, or the X-value would have changed direction. Likewise, Butt 14 & 12 had to be moved between WL 22 & 24

Hope that makes sense.
 
Thestripper:

One BIG question: Are you going to cut the forms using a CNC router or laser where you need a CAD file? If you're ultimately going to cut them by hand, I'd plot them manually the way Cruiser explained. I created the spreadsheet, because I was ultimately cutting them with a CNC router. The actual cut time was 3-4 minutes, depending on station.
 
Back
Top