Has anyone tried a Slackseat?

This showed up in my inbox via a marketing email (perhaps the only one I actually enjoy getting - from the Outdoor Equipment Company). Has anyone given it a go? Perhaps there's a similar option that has already been discussed which I missed.

I’ve not seen that one but a friend has one made from leather that he buckles through his open gunnel. I might try making one if I can solve the hook part.
Jim

The link below has a leather version for canoes with open gunwales.

Benson

Thanks for sharing that Benson, I had no idea who made it.
Jim

I have done many miles with a webbing/plastic buckle strap that did the same thing - kept the weight off my ankles and knees - and it was a good solution. Something wider and firmer would only be better, I suspect.
We used to call them 'trapper's seats' but I think there's an actual product that's taken that name.

$139 CAD!

Note the deficiencies pointed out in the one review on THIS SITE:

"Works really well. Wish I could make it tighter to lift me higher. After my knee surgery I can't flex fully so need my butt higher bit there's no strap left. I've had to adjust my stroke in prying for "J" since the hooks on the gunwhales interfere."

Examining the pictures, it appears that the strap on the straight-cut end is very short and nonadjustable. Thus, the seat seems to be usable only when you are scooted over to one side of the canoe, heeling. That is, you can't center the fabric seat on the straps.

Thanks all. I have an industrial sewing machine so could bang one out easily enough.

<reality check>
and by easily I mean drawing a plan, cutting pieces, sewing them together, realizing I made about 8 mistakes, unpicking, recutting, resewing, unpicking, resewing, and then taking a 2-month break before trying again.
</reality check>

It's the gunnel connection that would be important to sort. I don't like floppy / tangly things attached to the boat - particularly if they're close to my feet.

Hey fellow paddlers––I'm the guy behind SlackSeat. I just discovered this thread today and wanted to join the conversation (albeit late).

Thanks to @scratchypants for sharing the link to my website and starting the conversation.

I went through a pile of iterations before landing on the one pictured above. I took the finished product to a Canadian-style paddling event, and in a group of about 50 paddlers, I sold my first 10 units. Since then, I've been surprised at the response in sales both on SlackSeat.com and COEC.

I'm working on the next iteration. It's helpful to read contentions. Everyone has their own paddling style, and not all knees and ankles are created equal. Overall, the response from people who have used SlackSeat has been validating. I have a few customers asking when I'll have stock again so they can order for students taking their ORCKA Basic Solo course.

Okay, but is SlackSeat as good as it could be?

I spent some time this afternoon thinking about @Glenn MacGrady's comments above, and it got me fiddling with straps and drawing pictures and considering how I could provide a little more customization to deal with the current catch-22. I have some ideas, but here's the tension:

SlackSeat is designed for solo paddlers who want to lean when they paddle. To provide comfort when paddling with the canoe heeled over, the paddling side of the seat "wants" to be as close to the gunnel as possible. I enjoy heeling my 16' Swift Algonquin to the point of nearly taking a sip of water over the gunnel. SlackSeat works great for this, and I think it's going to work even better on my next iteration.

But what to do when you want to paddle with less of a heel and sit centred? In my Swift, I can sit centered on SlackSeat no problem––I've designed the seat to be wide enough to accommodate that shift for someone with my sized arse (I'm not sure of the exact measurements of my arse). Sure, the seat itself is still closer to the paddling side, but the paddler can sit centered. The trade-off? In a more narrow canoe, you run out of strap a little sooner than you would in a wider canoe.

I'm eager for the spring thaw and will shoot more videos and photos to show SlackSeat in action. For now, at the end of this video you can see me shift towards the centre of the canoe.

Looking forward to more discussions, and please feel free to drop me a line with any questions or suggestions!

Hi Cole & welcome. I don't kneel unless in whitewater and then I'm upright w/o weight on my ankles but it seems that, if both straps were adjustable, loosening one & tightening the other would allow the paddler to heel to either side or sit centered.

I'm curious what SlackSeat 2.0 will look like... I love the evolution of an idea.

Cole T Bennett said:

Hey fellow paddlers––I'm the guy behind SlackSeat.

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Cole, welcome to site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos, and to start threads, in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Also, because canoeing is a geographic sport, please add your location to the Account Details page in your profile, which will cause it to show under your avatar as a clickable map link. Many of the site's technical features are explained in Features: Help and How-To Running Thread. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.

Cole T Bennett said:

SlackSeat is designed for solo paddlers who want to lean when they paddle.

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That makes sense if the only market you're after is solo paddling a wide tandem canoe in a heeled posture, which is much more common in Canada than the USA.

Heeling a big honker tandem for Canadian "style paddling" is a wonderful recreational and performative day sport on calm waters, as is American "freestyle paddling" in dedicated solo canoes. However, it is not ideal when carrying a tripping load or when paddling in wind, waves or rapids, or when you want to use cross-bow strokes. Therefore, most serious canoe trippers paddle their canoes level, on the design waterline rather on than the b*st*rdized, asymmetrical, watermelon slice waterline of a heeled canoe, except when they heel to enhance axle turns, post turns and sideslips.

It just seems to me that your product could have more market appeal if you had a model that (1) could be centralized between the gunwales and (2) also could be adjusted in height for different depth canoes and different sized feet.

For folks who only want to kneel in a heeled position and don't care about centralization or a level canoe, a solid Welsh Plank can easily be constructed for that purpose. Here's a video of one from that Charles Burchill hyperlink:

Thanks, @Glenn MacGrady. I've updated my location as suggested.

Yes, a Welsh plank aims at solving the same problem and for the same kind of paddling.

I think you're right about the wider market opportunity with those two points above. I wasn't joking––I think I have a solution for the first one, I just need to put it together.

I'll see your video of Burchill paddling with a Welsh Plank and raise you one of him paddling with a SlackSeat!

Also, it's worth watching just to see what he can do in a Grumman.

@Cole T Bennett Welcome, and I for one am interested in what you come up with.
I build my own skin-on-frames and largely refuse to install seats in them because trimming is trickier with a fixed seat. I've messed around with a variety of webbing/buckle/plank butt supports, but the sticking point was always getting bored before I put the effort into making metal hooks for the gunwales. My unicorn was always a trapper's seat / lumbar pack that could be popped out of the boat and buckled around the waist.

I'm interested in seeing slackseat 2.0 too. I bought a used 15' Bell Starfire set up for solo and I'd like to be able to use it tandem occasionally but don't want to add 2 more permanent seats.

Two historical artifacts shown below. I used the Nashwaak Solo Strap as a kneeling thwart in a Bluewater Tripper 17. It worked quite well overall...a bit finicky to adjust but once adjusted you sit on two lengths of 2" webbing and it was pretty comfy. Although the gunwale attachments are secure they may scar wood, and they may only work on thinner gunwales. I doubt I'll use it again. It's also for kneeling so not useful for a guest that sits. The other one is a seat that was offered by a small shop in Canada called Canoe Accessories. I haven't used it enough to comment but I'll try it on the Starfire.

Both of the seats pull the gunwales inward a bit (a good inch on each side) from the paddler's weight. Not a big deal but not an ideal feeling and makes adjustments a bit more tedious.

I keep wondering about using a regular canoe seat and just hanging it off the gunwales similar to the Spring Creek design but in wood.


It's a fun design challenge.

Thanks for sharing those other solutions @gumpus. I discovered the Nashwaak Solo Strap after I was well on my way to the current version of SlackSeat. The Solo Strap is very close to the first version I came up with: two brackets and a 2" strap between them. But I found that approach transferred the pain from my ankles to my arse, so I started to work on the seat portion of the design.

Sitting on SlackSeat definitely causes inward pressure on the hull, so I recommend using it up close to the yoke or thwart to counteract that effect.


Here are some more pics of the last version. I don't personally sit on SlackSeat with both feet in front of me, but I do stretch out one leg at a time to stay comfortable. In my boat, with it cinched taut, the seat is at a similar height to the standard canoe seat behind it.

The challenge with using SlackSeat as a replacement to a permanent canoe seat is that you're hanging it in a much more narrow place on the canoe.

Cole T Bennett said:

The challenge with using SlackSeat as a replacement to a permanent canoe seat is that you're hanging it in a much more narrow place on the canoe.

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I'm unsure how that creates a challenge, can you elaborate? You'd be shortening the strap, so it would seem you'd be fine as long as the distance between gunwales was the length of the seat plus whatever allowance for the cam buckle. Is it knee/leg space that becomes the issue?

A slotted plank run on a webbing strap between gunwales will produce downward pressure instead of the inward pressure produced by

MyKneesHurt said:

I'm unsure how that creates a challenge, can you elaborate? You'd be shortening the strap, so it would seem you'd be fine as long as the distance between gunwales was the length of the seat plus whatever allowance for the cam buckle. Is it knee/leg space that becomes the issue?

A slotted plank run on a webbing strap between gunwales will produce downward pressure instead of the inward pressure produced by

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SlackSeat is designed so the paddler can either lean heavily to one side or sit more centred in the canoe. To allow for this, the seat portion needs to strike a balance between being wide enough to seat the average paddler but not so wide that you can't cinch it up to a comfortable height. And it needs to do this in canoes of varying widths. The centre of the canoe is the widest point, and is where SlackSeat is designed to be used. The further from the center you place it, the less slack you have to cinch it to a comfortable height.

We're going to "buy" (shorten) 1 or 2 of inches from the length in the next iteration by creating tighter webbing loops (the straps that fasten the seat to the gunnel grips), but as is mentioned above, it needs to be done with consideration for different approaches to paddling; I'm exploring how to do this without launching two separate products––this is a pretty niche market

Cole T Bennett said:

We're going to "buy" (shorten) 1 or 2 of inches from the length in the next iteration by creating tighter webbing loops (the straps that fasten the seat to the gunnel grips), but as is mentioned above, it needs to be done with consideration for different approaches to paddling; I'm exploring how to do this without launching two separate products––this is a pretty niche market

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It surely is a niche market and I can understand the desire to have only one model. I sort of envision a fabric seat surface that can slide left or right along one or two gunwale straps, and that those gunwale straps can be tightened or loosened with buckles to lower or raise the seat. Not sure exactly how that would be implemented.

Here for any ideas they may give are two removable, hanging seats that have been marketed for wood/canvas (or any) canoes with slotted gunwales. The first is the leather Saddle Seat from Azland Traditions, which is still on the market. The second is a padded canvas model that used to be sold by Stewart River Boatworks but no longer is.

I purchased one in February at the Toronto Outdoor Adventure show. I got it form the Canadian Outdoor Equipment booth. I will report back once I try it out. I have plans to be a dealer if I like it. Thanks Dustin

NoelCanoeDad said:

I purchased one in February at the Toronto Outdoor Adventure show. I got it form the Canadian Outdoor Equipment booth. I will report back once I try it out. I have plans to be a dealer if I like it. Thanks Dustin

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I’m glad you were able to get one while you were up here Dustin!