Hand Layup or Vacuum

PaddleTime · 2025-01-20T18:05:21-0500

Hey guys,

Curious what your thoughts would be on theoretically the same canoe - all Kevlar, foam core, epoxy - constructed via a hand layup compared to one of the vacuum processes. In two canoes very close in design otherwise would there be significant advantages or disadvantages in one build technique compared to the other (after it’s built)? Thanks!

Boatman53 · 2025-01-20T19:39:11-0500

I believe the vacuum method gives a better cloth to resin ratio and hence I bit lighter weight in the end. But for one or two boats the setup is quite an investment.
Jim

Blukanu · 2025-01-21T06:53:04-0500

Isn’t vacuum also for anaerobic cured resins?

M Clemens · 2025-01-21T07:23:49-0500

It has been my experience that those builders that still layup by hand experience a wide variation in weight (some only publish an 'average' weight but are typically over spec). They also sometimes exhibit things like wrinkles and thread pulls from working the resin into the cloth. All cosmetic, yes, but when compared to the more consistent process of infusion like Swift and Placid, it's hard not to notice the difference when you are investing the funds a high-end boat commands.

PaddleTime · 2025-01-21T07:59:14-0500

Thanks, I can see the vacuum process offering more consistency on specifications and looks, although I have heard you can possibly remove more excess resin by hand thus lowering the weight?

Would one method offer more durability and longevity compared to the other?

Punkinhead · 2025-01-21T08:28:55-0500

I'd like to understand the different vacuum methods. When I looked at Swift and Northstar canoes side by side at an outfitter the difference was stark. The Swifts were perfectly smooth and flawless. The Northstars varied from boat to boat but they all had ugly folds in the interior. One Northstar Firebird had so many folds the factory should have been embarrassed to offer it for sale. I know they don't effect utility, but they were pretty awful looking.

M Clemens · 2025-01-21T08:33:10-0500

PaddleTime said:
Thanks, I can see the vacuum process offering more consistency on specifications and looks, although I have heard you can possibly remove more excess resin by hand thus lowering the weight?

Would one method offer more durability and longevity compared to the other?

It would be hard to prove without data, but from a former Quality/Reliability Engineer, I believe that a controlled, repeatable process translates into a better product overall.

M Clemens · 2025-01-21T08:44:27-0500

Punkinhead said:
I'd like to understand the different vacuum methods. When I looked at Swift and Northstar canoes side by side at an outfitter the difference was stark. The Swifts were perfectly smooth and flawless. The Northstars varied from boat to boat but they all had ugly folds in the interior. One Northstar Firebird had so many folds the factory should have been embarrassed to offer it for sale. I know they don't effect utility, but they were pretty awful looking.

Lotsa videos on You-Tube, Wenonah and Swift describing bag and infusion methods. I have several issues with Northstar that seem to invite heavy blowback from their fans (especially the transverse mold seam on the solos), but the cosmetics belie other design choices that I disagree with.

Seeker · 2025-01-21T20:12:11-0500

I have a hand-laid canoe and love it. Any blemishes remind me of the intensely personal relationship between the product and the maker... seems more like a unique sculpture vs a mass-cast bronze reproduction. 22lbs, with real wood trim, is light enough for me.

Others may prefer otherwise, and that's ok too... the important thing is that we get out and paddle.

Hand Layup or Vacuum

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