Info on Chivelston, Harris & Harold Lakes outside Wabakimi?

Steve, sorry I didn't get around to responding to your PM.

On my Albany trip in 2016 I took the train to Savant Lake and then got a road shuttle to Harris Lake to start my trip. The first portage from Harris to Harold Lake was a bit overgrown but still easy to follow, My first camp was near the end of the portage, good clear spot there (a bit mucky at the put-in). I camped on a very small island at the north end of Handy Lake. From there to Savant Lake there were six portages, 1+35+45+116+130+47=374 metres total, quite overgrown and a bit hard to follow but I made it through those 6 ports plus about 5km on Savant Lake to a nice camp location on the east shore. It took me 6 hours to get from Handy to the camp on Savant Lake but I was doing 4 gear carries and a 5th for a boat drag (I had 50 days worth of supplies at that point)

The alternative starting point you are thinking about would be to go back along the tracks from the Savant Lake stop (maybe you can get off the train before the official stop?). I had a quick look from the road into Harold, all I saw was a small swampy pond that is the end of the little creek that comes up from the tracks. I would not recommend going that route.

There was a recent post by @jdeerfoot (https://www.canoetripping.net/threads/any-advice-on-8-10-day-wabakimi-route.129359/post-165938) that suggested the ports from Harold to Savant Lake were really overgrown, his group decided to base camp on Harold instead of going on to Savant Lake.

I am unsure how much the ports have actually deteriorated in 8 years, for me I just had a couple of issues where I went off the trail and had to backtrack a short distance.

For my trip I used the guy who was operating the "hotel" at the Savant Lake train stop, @jdeerfoot used somebody from the local rez, not sure the hotel is still active but in any event the the First Nations guy he used is probably a better option. The hotel guys was a bit "flaky".

I really lucked out on Savant Lake, 30km of totally calm water, if the prevailing winds are up then it could be pretty brutal. Savant Lake itself is pretty busy, float planes and motorboats but after that I really enjoyed the the trip all the way to Osnaburgh Lake, all the ports in that section were easy and clear.

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Thanks so much for the info! I did recall that John had abandoned the trip & fallen back to Harold. I'm considering buying a Silky Katana Boy and putting it to the test (and give a little back by clearing some ports). Maybe that's spending shuttle money on gear but...

Chivelston being a swamp is certainly less than ideal but the VIA train will stop anywhere along the track as long as I tell them the mile marker (and I think that's their phrasing even though it's in km) that I wish to depart.

I've got all winter to think & rethink my departure point... I really appreciate the input though.

If the ports haven't been cleared in 8 years, they will be mostly gone. To put it in perspective, the Marshall lake ports were cleared two years ago.

I agree with what memaquay said. Three years ago, part of my trip was south of the park boundary, along a rarely traveled route (Seseganaga Lake via Savoyard Lake and Fog Lake to Heathcote Lake). I knew that part of it had been cleared about 10 years before my visit. The portages were mostly gone. It was arduous, but an unforgettable experience.

Admin tangent: I love this! A member in Switzerland gives experienced advice to a member in the USA about portages in Canada.

I appreciate the input and also appreciated the fact of multi-national perspectives...

I might as well make this an all-out route planning thread as Don Elliot of Mattice Lake Outfitters got back to me this morning. He couldn't help much with Chivelston insight but the end of the route will need to change.

He tells me that logging in the area has completely obliterated the portage from Big lake to Little Caribou (a hazard of crown land tripping outside the provincial park boundaries). His recommended work-around is to head North out of D'Alton and portage into the North end of Caribou. I'd suspect that probably adds another day or so to the trip at the tail end.

Still unsure what to do about the start but I've got almost a year.

As memaquay points out, portages which have not been used/cleared in years will have grown in. Since the Wabakimi Project’s last organized trips were conducted in 2018, many of the routes we worked on are no longer passable. One of my favorite one week routes not far from Armstrong ON was cleared in June 2016 and when a friend and his daughter did the same route maybe 3 years later, they encountered difficulty in getting through.

On your proposed trip, at least the early portages of it have grown in. This was a route the Wabakimi Project cleared and documented about 15 years ago. It has probably received some use since then, but not much. If you have the Wabakimi Canoe Route Maps booklet, Volume 2, your route is detailed in it. I will get further info to you.

He tells me that logging in the area has completely obliterated the portage from Big lake to Little Caribou (a hazard of crown land tripping outside the provincial park boundaries).

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Interesting, I'll have to check my maps. I wonder when the port was cut. If it is in the Nipigon plan and was cut recently, there might be grounds for a complaint, as I had thought that surrounding plans had adopted my guidelines for the Kenogami plan, with 70 metre buffers on each side of in-between lake ports.

If ya want, I can get some pictures for you but not for about a year.

Watching this as we’re planning our own wabikimi trip (perhaps not until 2025z

Update on the info search:

Laurence Mills of wabakimimaps.com has confirmed that the portages around Big Lake have been obliterated by logging so I'll have to reroute the end of the trip North and access Caribou Lake from D'Alton or MacDonald Lakes (one long portage or many short ones). He also offers maps customized to your route and I'll be ordering one from him shortly. $35 seems like a great deal and I'm looking forward to seeing how his maps compare to others.

Paddle Planner tells me that I'll need Friends of Wabakimi maps # 1,2,3 & 5 so I'll get those also. Somewhat to compare, somewhat to have in case I need to alter the route in the bush and somewhat to drool over all winter.

I decided to bite the bullet and just pay Bruce Hyer whatever he asked for but, when I contacted him, he said (rather tersely) that he doesn't sell his maps, they are only for clients that use his outfitting service and that he was "already over-booked" for that time period. Oh well, he didn't have any information on the Chivelston end of the route any way but I was looking forward to seeing if there was much difference between his maps and the other 2 sets.

One person who probably can help with the Western end of the route is Jonah Belmore. He was recommended by @jdeerfoot and by Peter Albinger as he provides shuttles for many paddlers looking to launch from the Savant Lake area. Jonah is part of the Saugeen First Nation and tells me that Chivelston should have enough water to use as an access. He's headed out of town for a few weeks but, when he gets back, he'll take a walk / ride down the tracks and get me a mile marker so I know where to ask the Canadian VIA train to stop.

He says there is a snowmobile train from Chivelston to Harris but there is supposedly a large tree across at least one of the portages before I'd reach Savant. In an almost careless way, he mentioned that maybe he'd take a chainsaw up there this winter and cut that out. Seemed like a great guy, assured me that, even though it might be tough, I'd be able to get through to Savant and that 3 days was plenty of time to do so.

Starting to seem like that end of the trip will, indeed, start right off of the tracks at Chivelston Lake.

Gamma, thanks for the update. I was wondering what you found out about coming off the railroad. Stick with Jonah, he will likely be a great source of info - he is a very helpful guy. I wouldn’t read too much into what Bruce told you (or how he seemed to sound). His medical condition has impaired his voice. I am a little surprised about his maps, he certainly made much use of the Wabakimi Project map books he bought from the project.

I was wondering what you found out about coming off the railroad.

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So far, not all that much, really. It seems that the VIA train will stop anywhere along the route if you give them the mile marker (in kilometers?) but @CanoeDaddy tells me to schedule early as they've begun tightening the restrictions and possibly limiting the number of boats per train. Most likely due to larger numbers of people in the bush, I suppose. I need to call them in person to schedule that so I'll wait until I get the coordinates, call them and see if I can schedule & buy a ticket in one call.

The advice to book your train reservation early (especially the boat/gear in the baggage car) is probably a good idea. We last did this in 2017, probably 4-5 months before the trip. And I do remember the baggage car was quite full when we boarded in Armstrong headed for Allenwater Bridge.

I have long heard the CN would like to concentrate on freight and forget about passenger service, but the First Nations people who depend on rail service have enough influence to keep it going.

I'm slowly gathering information about the start of this trip & I'm becoming more optimistic that it will be feasible.

@CanoeDaddy sent me the mileage table from the Friends of Wabakimi website and the fact that they have mileage listed for Chivelston Lake (76.5 miles from Armstrong) is encouraging. Although not a popular place to start, at least it seems like it's viable.


I then called VIA rail to verify rates &`was very pleased that the rail fare from Armstrong to Chivelston is $20 and there's a $100 fee for the canoe so the whole shuttle will only cost $120 (I was expecting it to be $150+).

Note: They did recommend booking the tickets as soon as I set a date since August can get quite busy with others using the train to access the park and canoe space is limited.

In addition, @recped sent me some awesome trip notes from when he did an Albany River trip and started at Harris Lake. His account of the portages between Harris & Velos (where our paths separate) didn't make them sound impassable and encourages me that I might be able to find them myself.

John (@jdeerfoot) had indicated that his group had run across David & Leah Jackson during their aborted Harold Lake to Savant Lake mission. He thought they might have come thru Chivelston so I reached out to David via email. He says that he believes Chivelston was clearcut so it might be a mess but then went on to say that they found the portages between Handy Lake & Savant to be in decent shape and saw no boot prints.

This is a bit of a concern because it was a very experienced group that got turned around and, if they couldn't find the portages, I'm unsure that I'll be able to either. The good news, of course, is that the portages still exist and were passable... (assuming that I can find them).

Finally, John also directed me to Ken Babincek who provided some great information, especially on the conclusion of the route. It seems that the portages around D'Alton and Big Lake are largely theoretical and exiting via D'Alton would prove very difficult because the Big River isn't big at all until it reaches Reef and Shoal Lakes.

His recommended exit is north from Upper Pawshowconk Lake via Linklater Creek up to Linklater Lake and then west and south to Kellar Bay and out via Caribou Lake.

So far, every person that I've contacted has been outstanding and many have provided far more detail than I had hoped for.

I'll keep updating this thread every month or so in case anyone else is interested but I'm pretty sure I'll try it with the Chivelston start and the Kellar Bay exit proposed by Ken. That should put the whole trip at 402km (250 miles) so, in order to do it is 3 weeks, I'll need to cover 134km (83 miles) per week.

Which seems pretty reasonable from the couch.

Gamma1214 said:

That should put the whole trip at 402km (250 miles) so, in order to do it is 3 weeks, I'll need to cover 134km (83 miles) per week.

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My last big trip, if I remember right, was about 500 miles and I did it in 6 weeks.

Much will depend on weather and how much time is spent hunting for and traveling portages. I had a lot of bad weather and spent a lot of days in camp. I also had some days where I spent many hours searching for and traveling non-existent portages. I didn't take any "rest days" but there were some days with nice weather and open country where I only paddled half days and spent the other half exploring by foot.

On the days I can travel I like paddling long days. There were days of no portages and big water where I covered 30 miles but, as I remember, I was more likely to cover 15-20 miles on a day with good travel but there were also days under 10 miles.

If you're able to paddle on 16 of your 21 days you would need to average 15.6 miles/day. I think it's doable but ambitious depending on your traveling style and how long you like your days to be.

Alan

My usual formula for routes like that is to assume that the portages are completely gone, no matter what anyone else says. An important part of a trip like that is to examine all possible ways to re-route if needed.

An important part of a trip like that is to examine all possible ways to re-route if needed.

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Carrying the inReach, I should be able to contact Jonah Belmore for shuttle extraction to the West of the park or Clem Quenville when I reach the crown lands to the East. I'll carry maps for all areas between me and the Ranger so I can shortcut the route if needed and, worst case scenario, I think I can contact Don Elliot at Mattice Lake Outfitters to see what lake(s) near me he can land in.

Honestly, I'll have to be pretty hard-up to open the wallet that far but extraction by float plane IS always an option.

FWIW, David Jackson felt that I could complete the route in 3 weeks with no problem but, then again, I think he's much younger and, as I recall, Andy from Tuscarora Outfitters said my BWCA route was easily do-able in 6 days (it took me 10). It also took me 10 days to do the Steel River loop and, while I was faster on the Marshall Lake loop, that pace was mostly due to bug avoidance.

I'll definitely have options in mind to shorten the route, I'll be taking a good saw and (as recped suggested) probably a pair for pruning loppers


I'm wondering if I should check backpacking forums to see what loppers the ultralight hikers use.

Im not trying to be a Debbie Downer, just throwing my devalued Canadian two cents in, but...... David Jackson and his partner are, well, hard-core. They accomplish things that would have most of us mewling like baby kittens in a snow storm after the first day, lol.
I was thinking, another really interesting route up there would be to start at the Ogoki Bridge, go up to the reservoir, get into the white lake area to see Wendells digs, the back over to Cliff Lake to check out the petrographs, then down the river to the tracks and take the train back to Nakina for your vehicle. Ramblin Boy has a good trip report for parts of that route.