'new' Bell Morningstar

Well, prompted by some discussion here and elsewhere, in which it seems that the Morningstar has a small but devoted following as a soloizable tandem that might be a good combi boat for poling and paddling, I picked one up late last fall, a 2002 white gold. I had to tetris all the boats into the back of the garage to get the cars in for winter, but spring is here and it's time to drag the new-old gal out and see what she's made of.

If I keep her, I'll probably soloize her to reduce weight. I need to do some testing to find out where I'd want a single seat stationed. While the sliding seat is nice for tandem, that rear high bar is unfortunately placed if I want to paddle it backwards solo from the bow seat. Paddling from the center seat might require heeling the boat and paddling Canadian style, which doesn't work well when the 70lb dog is along for the ride. I might take all the seats out, put in some pine 1x2 stock 'thwarts' for temporary rigidity, and kneel on a stuffed dry-bag to figure out trim before choosing a final position. Maybe I'd even mount the sliding seat to be the solo seat, though I'm not sure I want the extra weight in there ultimately. But, might be nice to slide the seat out of the way while poling, providing a wider ranger of trims in moving water...

Meanwhile, I think she might need a little TLC. The woodwork I'm comfortable with, but I haven't delved into epoxy repairs on composite boats. I think she needs at least a little at the stem. The longer gap at one stem has already been epoxied and seems fine, but the two smaller chips at the other end likely need to be filled? On the interior, it seems like some of the epoxy has chipped or disintegrated with age? Or is that just how they were built back then? Should I worry about it? The edges of the fabric are exposed in a few places too....

Also, what experiences have folks had with white gold? Tough against abrasion? Scraping over rocks in moving water, lightly loaded? What impacts?

I had a Bell Northwoods. It was a great canoe.

Good looking canoe. Unfortunately I know nothing about how to repair those areas.
I look forward to hearing, with pictures of course, about outings and camping trips.
Roy

ppine said:

I had a Bell Northwoods. It was a great canoe.

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Was the Northwoods similar to the Morningstar? I don't think I know that model.

Tsuga8 said:

Or is that just how they were built back then?

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Well, that isn't the prettiest layup I've seen, that's for sure. But I've owned famous brand composite canoes where the interior epoxy layer has voids and one had a few places where the fabric edge was raised up. I sanded down the sharp edges and called it good. You could always run a bit of epoxy in the voids that look like the fabric is actually exposed to water, otherwise I don't worry about it.

The chip in the gel coat can be filled with epoxy after prepping it. Then I just painted over the epoxy with some "close enough" touch-up enamel.

I have an original Curtis Morningstar Northstar and really enjoy using it on swift water streams and exploring local ponds. It works OK paddled solo (better than I thought it would) but I have solo canoes that paddle so much better that I don't use the Morningstar Northstar for solo. For poling the Morningstar seems like it would work well but I have no experience with canoe poling.

Added: The Bell Morningstar is 6" shorter and more narrow than the Northstar so it might be a good boat for solo paddling.

Maybe it was a Northwind. A more recent model, 17 feet lots of rocker, Royalex, around 35 inch beam.

@tketcham thank you, very helpful! What epoxy would you recommend for the gel coat? Same for the inside? (I'll have to take a closer look to see if it really needs it inside.)

What type of layup is your Morningstar, and how has it help up in swiftwater streams? If I understand correctly, white gold has a layer of fiberglass on the outside and should theoretically be more abrasion resistant. I know it's not royalex, but being new to composite boats I don't have a sense of what they can handle in terms of swiftwater bumps and scrapes.

My bad, the Curtis tandem I have is the 16' Northstar; Kevlar with gel coat. I bought it used and it had minor scrapes and gouges and I haven't put much additional wear and tear other than bouncing down shallow sections now and then. It's not a rock bashing canoe but gel coat helps absorb the surface impacts.

For the occasional small repairs that I deal with I use West System's 105 epoxy that comes in little packets so I didn't end up with cans of epoxy than I couldn't use up in a reasonable amount of time. I also bought some release cloth that helps keep the epoxy blobs fairly smooth and level with the gel coat surface with minimal sanding.

Thanks again for the epoxy tips!

I'm not familiar with the Curtis Northstar. Of course an internet search mostly turned up old threads on this forum. Presuming it's a precursor to the Morningstar? The number of model names with fire, wind, and or star in the name across time and manufacturers (Curtis, Bell, Northstar, Placid Boatworks) is dizzying! I know there's a progression but not always easy to follow.

Tsuga8 said:

I'm not familiar with the Curtis Northstar. Of course an internet search mostly turned up old threads on this forum. Presuming it's a precursor to the Morningstar? The number of model names with fire, wind, and or star in the name across time and manufacturers (Curtis, Bell, Northstar, Placid Boatworks) is dizzying! I know there's a progression but not always easy to follow.

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If I'm not mistaken, the Curtis Northstar was the predecessor to the Hemlock Eagle. Here's a link to the catalog page for it on Hemlock's site. It's 6" longer and a touch narrower than the Morningstar, and has symmetrical rocker. It sounds pretty comparable to a Mad River Explorer or Swift Prospector 16, but maybe a little faster and a little less maneuverable? (I haven't paddled one, but really want to.)

No idea what, if any relationship the Curtis Northstar might have with the Morningstar (or to Bell's own Northstar—now the Northstar Polaris—which is not the same as the Curtis!), other than that both were designed by David Yost.

Tsuga8 said:

The number of model names with fire, wind, and or star in the name across time and manufacturers (Curtis, Bell, Northstar, Placid Boatworks) is dizzying!

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It gets even more confusing now that Ted Bell's company is now called Northstar Canoes. When the company was called Bell Canoe Works they made a boat called the Northstar but with the new company name that hull was renamed "Polaris"

Alan

This discussion at BWCA.com provides some background...

Some history of Curtis/Bell/Hemlock tandems

Scroll down to read Charlie Wilson's reply.

IIRC, somewhere it’s been written something like this: Bell northwoods > cut down to make Northwind mold > cut down to make Morningstar mold > stretched out to make royalex northwind mold.

I’ve seen white gold layups be pretty durable to non abuse regular type uses. my Morningstar is set up to convert between tandem or combi. Great w kids or dogs and when not in a hurry. Or for someone new to solo who feels more comfortable in an Uber stable boat. I have a bunch of boats but have enjoyed and kept mine as a compact / stable / maneuverable option.

Good info and resources, thanks all!

I got out on the water in the boat for the first time yesterday, visiting a small lake/pond that feeds into a twisting marshy creek. I brought two single blades and a pole to test out, along with the 70lbs of wriggling furry ballast. There was a bit of wind yesterday, ranging from fully textured water to 1-2in waves building at the windward end. I was comparing to my Wenonah Heron (15ft royalex) and Millbrook Souhegan (15ft composite), in search of the 'ideal' multi-use poling/paddling boat. (There's no contest btwn a dedicated solo like my Phoenix.) The setting yesterday was a good example of the multi-use part - there are swamps here where sections are good for poling, and sections are deep enough to warrant a paddle.

I tried both center seat and the bow sliding seat, sat in backwards and slid up about halfway. Sliding the bow seat halfway was more centered than the stern seat in terms of trim, still enough room to get my legs in to kneel, and a narrower station than the center seat. This worked pretty well. As I usually kneel, I could have slid the seat even closer to its supporting thwart, but entrapment danger increases as you get closer to that thwart. The center seat obviously has improved trim but it's harder to get a nice vertical stroke near the boat's widest, engendering more required corrections while paddling. Heeling properly is hard with the dog in the boat - he doesn't sit still for long.

Overall the boat tracks really nicely, better than either the Heron or Souhegan. When I could keep the dog all the way at the other end, it pinned the forward end into the wind and worked pretty well. We were still quite susceptible to getting pushed sideways - the boat is quite deep and presents a pretty good wind target from the side, even with about 270lbs of person, dog, and gear. When the dog was right in front of me, for either seating position, the raised bow and subpar trim made us even more susceptible to wind and getting blow off course. In comparison to the Heron, I think the Morningstar glides and tracks better. But, it's been a while since I've paddled the Heron - I do should get that out again for a comparison closer in time.

I got the Souhegan as a poling boat, but I've learned it's really a pole racing slalom boat. It's a whitewater boat, highly rockered and snub-nosed and wanting to turn on a dime. (I cognitively new this when getting it, and I did test paddle it, but with time those properties have become more and more apparent.) It's pros are lighter weight (more like 40lbs than 50), tough exterior made for rocky rivers, and maneuverability. But on flatwater it STINKS. Sure you can make it go straight with corrective strokes, but it's not much fun and you're not getting anywhere fast. What really bothers me, though, is that it turns so well, I can actually turn the boat while recovering a swept pole stroke with the pole in the air. Just extending the pole laterally in the air and sweeping sideways will turn the boat. Now, perhaps one shouldn't be aerially returning sweep strokes with a pole fully extended? I certainly need to work on my poling technique across the board, no question there. But there are times when it seems like two consecutive sweep strokes are needed, and I don't want to center the pole on the boat just to reextend it again for another sweep. In moving water, recovery time is of the essence. So how does the Morningstar compare for poling?

In poling the Morningstar yesterday I was quite pleased with its performance. It felt very stable when standing, even with the dog moving around unpredictably as he so often does in reaction to plopping turtles and the like. It tracked well and was not susceptible to turning during air-borne sweep recoveries with the pole fully extended, in contrast to the Souhegan. What remains to be seen is Morningstar performance in rocky moving water, both in terms of tracking/turning balance, and in terms of white-gold scraping over the occassional rock. I must admit the latter has me nervous, despite helpful reassurances on this thread. I have no doubt the Morningstar has enough stability for moving water poling though.

I suspect that the Heron and Morningstar will be the redundant pair here. The Heron is wide and wind-driven when soloed, and oil-cans to beat the devil. But that oil-canning is a boon in my book when sliding over swamp logs and creek rocks. I suspect both boats are pretty equal in terms of getting blown when solo, but I'm guessing the Morningstar tracks better and moves faster between its finer lines and more rigid hull. I'll have to do more testing with both. I also want to weight both and see which is actually lighter, factoring in seat weights. Whichever I keep I should really soloize properly to drop the weight a few pounds. More to come!

I keep royalex for the shallow days and anticipated rocky stuff. My ‘89 dagger reflection 15 is redundant to the Morningstar in ballpark hull specs but it weighs 65+lbs and oil cans a bit. but nothing like the handful of wenonah royalex boats I’ve paddled.

kona said:

but nothing like the handful of wenonah royalex boats I’ve paddled.

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Indeed, the Heron is terrible for oil canning. But, it's also about the lightest royalex tandem I've seen at ~50lbs. Everything's a trade-off.

I have a Morningstar in the same layup as Tsuga8's and I also have been thinking of putting a center seat to use it as a solo. It's asymmetrical design make me hesitant to paddle reversing the canoe. I'm not sure where or how to determine where to place a center seat? I'm tall 6'8" so reach is probably not a problem, but I do want to be able to trim the canoe and putting some weight in the bow is an option I guess. Please offer suggestions.

Mine is convertible.

Photo shows both options installed when I brought it back from the factory with new rails. Measurements were taken from the old rails, installed as stock at bell in 1998.

Measurements: front screws of center seat drops are 5” back from center of the carry thwart. I think you could move it back another 1-2” since you’re so tall.

Want to tandem with space, drop out the center seat. Want to solo or combi/3, install the center seat and drop the carry thwart. I don’t ever have both options installed, as shown in photo.

Hope this is clearer than mud and helpful. Feel free to pm if you want more info.

BobMills said:

I have a Morningstar in the same layup as Tsuga8's and I also have been thinking of putting a center seat to use it as a solo. It's asymmetrical design make me hesitant to paddle reversing the canoe. I'm not sure where or how to determine where to place a center seat? I'm tall 6'8" so reach is probably not a problem, but I do want to be able to trim the canoe and putting some weight in the bow is an option I guess. Please offer suggestions.

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On my solo boats I like the front of the seat about 6" back from the centre point, for me it means when kneeling my knees are just about at the centre point.

Sadly mine hasn't gotten much use this year. Still too scared to take it on my rocky poling creek to see what happens to the gel coat. I really do scrape a lot of rocks while poling - the creek is often borderline too shallow.

Mine has the solo seat in front of the stern seat, pretty far back from the center yoke so both can be installed at all times, unlike kona's. So, perhaps the solo seat is a bit far back for ideal trim with an empty boat? I haven't actually paddled it empty much, so I can't remember.

Since it's upside-down on the racks, measuring is a big awkward, but it looks like the distance is about 16-1/4 inches from the front of the stern seat to the back edge of the solo seat, as measured along the keel line. I tucked the measuring tape into the inside of the end cap and measured about 74-1/2 inches to the front edge of the solo seat, again along the keel line. The seats and end cap are all at different heights, so there's surely some fudge factor but hopefully that helps. I can send pics if that helps too.

I'd also recommend trying the bow seat backwards. Sure, it wasn't designed for that, but depending on your uses and needs, might save you some trouble and some weight.