Bad back and purchasing a new lightweight canoe

[TimJ]

Hey Tim,
I have a bad back too, throw in two junky shoulders. I didn’t catch your size, but part of your criteria should include the durability necessary for your paddling. UL Kevlar is fine if lakes are all you paddle, just get a boat that will hold you and your gear, and is sea worthy. If rocky rivers are on your list, you might consider the expedition Kevlar from Swift. I love my Prospector 14. At 41 lbs, it’s my heaviest canoe, but I can handle it. Kevlar’s also easy to repair.

My tripper is a Northstar Magic in UL Kevlar, but it may be a tad tippy for your taste. It handles me, my gear and dog for the trips you describe. Last winter while rehabbing my shoulder and back, I got a really light (29lb) Blacklite Phoenix. It was a mistake. I love the hull design, but it’s impractical or not ideal for all but a local reservoir backwater; too delicate for local streams, too responsive, low capacity for bigger water and tripping - but man is it easy to load and carry. I’ll either sell it or bash it up anyway.

So, I’d recommend a Kevlar boat, ultra light if you’re just doing lakes or larger streams, thicker Kevlar for other waters.

The Adirondack Canoe Company. Boreas is the model and comes in at 27 pounds. It's a 14' Carbon fiber canoe. But, it has 3 other hull material options with Kevlar being one of them. It's narrower than I'm used to so I will test paddle it and any other canoe I'd consider purchasing before I commit. I'm a flat water paddler and stick close to the shore. I don't take any unnecessary chances on large open water crossings.
Hmm. If you meant my physical size. I'm 5'9" 210 pounds.

 

[Black_Fly]

The Adirondack Canoe Company. Boreas is the model and comes in at 27 pounds. It's a 14' Carbon fiber canoe. But, it has 3 other hull material options with Kevlar being one of them. It's narrower than I'm used to so I will test paddle it and any other canoe I'd consider purchasing before I commit. I'm a flat water paddler and stick close to the shore. I don't take any unnecessary chances on large open water crossings.
Hmm. If you meant my physical size. I'm 5'9" 210 pounds.

Good idea to paddle. Give it a good go. If you fish, try casting and rebaiting, changing lures. Pull a fish in if you can. Elbow room and stability are important. Getting into a backpack, removing and stowing a shirt, lots of things you want to be comfortable doing.

14’ seems small. For lake use and camping, I’d go 2’ longer, and I weigh 175 at 5’9”. 15’ can work depending on the rocker and hull stability. If there’s and chance of wind and waves, I want to be in a well trimmed canoe of adequate length, not too high gunnels.

My first Kevlar canoe was a Wenonah Prism. It served me well. There’s a reason it’s the primary solo rental at Ely outfitters.

 

[M Clemens]

I'm new to this site and have a question for the experts here. I've owned traditional canoes in the past. My first was a Mad river fiberglass back in the 80's. I currently have an Old Town 146 Saranac. It's a bit heavy and too awkward for me to load on my vehicle anymore. I have had several back surgeries and want a lighter canoe. I'm looking at the Adirondack Canoe Company Boreas with the traditional seating position or the Hornbeck Classic 14 with their floor seating position. I do plan on testing paddling both boats out. I was wondering if the folks here could advise me whether one seating position over the other is more comfortable for someone with chronic back pain. My intended use would be 2-3 day fishing/camping trips with portages in the Adirondacks of upstate NY. Possibly with longer trips into Algonquin park again if my back holds out. Thanks for any advice you fine folks can offer.

Hey Tim, arthritis hit me a couple of years ago especially in the spine. For me, alternating between sitting and kneeling keeps me paddling, so I am limited to canoes with a hung seat now under 30 pounds. All my boats are outfitted the same, with Back-savers that help keep my spine aligned when seated. If you are looking for a solo in the 14 foot range, there are a plethora of models available. Many folks find the Boreas with a hung seat pretty tender, which you will be able to assess for yourself with a test paddle. I did not care for the scuff pad that they paint on the hull after it is out of the mold (hopefully that has changed). If your budget is in the $2000 range you might consider a used boat, as there are many that come up for sale during the season and you are located in a great part of the northeast for used canoes. If you take a day trip to Rochester, you can test paddle many solos at Oak Orchard Canoe, Bay Creek Paddling and Hemlock Canoe to get a feel for your preference and then keep a watch in the used market for a deal.

 

[scoutergriz]

All good points. I do tend to kneel about 40% of the time. I'll add a small exercise mat similar to the one Jason Irwin uses in his videos. I find the traditional seats kill my butt and translate to more back pain after a long time paddling. I'll like to see what your kneeling thwart looks like if you don't mind sharing a picture of yours.

it's in storage for the winter, but basically instead of being hung directly from the gunwales, it has a 3" drop that is angled at about 30° towards the seat, and was installed with me sitting on the seat with my legs at full extension so my leg muscles don't need to be used to hold me in place, I just lock my knees

 

[scoutergriz]

Hey Tim,
I have a bad back too, throw in two junky shoulders. I didn’t catch your size, but part of your criteria should include the durability necessary for your paddling. UL Kevlar is fine if lakes are all you paddle, just get a boat that will hold you and your gear, and is sea worthy. If rocky rivers are on your list, you might consider the expedition Kevlar from Swift. I love my Prospector 14. At 41 lbs, it’s my heaviest canoe, but I can handle it. Kevlar’s also easy to repair.

My tripper is a Northstar Magic in UL Kevlar, but it may be a tad tippy for your taste. It handles me, my gear and dog for the trips you describe. Last winter while rehabbing my shoulder and back, I got a really light (29lb) Blacklite Phoenix. It was a mistake. I love the hull design, but it’s impractical or not ideal for all but a local reservoir backwater; too delicate for local streams, too responsive, low capacity for bigger water and tripping - but man is it easy to load and carry. I’ll either sell it or bash it up anyway.

So, I’d recommend a Kevlar boat, ultra light if you’re just doing lakes or larger streams, thicker Kevlar for other waters.

I've used UL kevlar Swift Kippawas (-40lb) extensively for my personal boat as well as my teaching fleet for over 20 years in Northern Ontario granite country, and found them more than capable for it- the fact that the have more flex in their layup where it counts helps as does strategic use of reinforcing layers in the stems and football, in fact they perform better than the old expedition layups did (+55lb) because they flex a little under a hard hit and absorb the forces, rather than the rigid expedition models that invariably cracked instead of flexing. we even ran them on the French and the Moon rivers which are notorious for wrecking canoes in their hard rock swifts and class 2/3's where the razor sharp rocks can do in weaker boats in minutes.

 

[scoutergriz]

Owen Pond was one of my favorite portages and fishing trips with my canoe in the lake placid area. It is a hard trail going up non stop all the way to the pond. I'm not sure I could even make that trail with a ultra weight canoe now. When I was much younger we spent a lot of time at Putnam Pond and hiked out from there to Barrymill pond, Rock Pond , Clear pond and Grizzly ocean. I stopped portaging/canoe trips for the past 15 years as I have had multiple back surgeries. I only purchased my OT 146 Saranac for the Schoharie reservoir. Once washed and on the reservoir the boat can't be moved without going through the whole process every time you remove it from the launch area. I hit a mid life crisis and had the need for speed so my last vehicle was a Ford Mustang. I traded that in for the Bronco a week ago. So, a new canoe is in my near future. I'll start with small ponds around my area until I get the feel for it and venture out from there. I'd like to take a trip to Algonquin park again for brook trout fishing. Maybe next summer.

you can make your life easier by picking up one of those small 1/2gal hand-held pump sprayers and keeping it filled with a 10% bleach solution- just pull the boat up on shore (not on the grass, you'll kill it) spray it down inside, flip it over, and spray down the outside. Now stop for a coffee and let it dry some before picking it up (unless you like wearing white). Any CO coming by can easily smell the bleach and knows your boat has been "sanitized "

 

[TimJ]

Thanks for all the great suggestions folks. As M Clemens mentioned I might be better off waiting until the spring and looking at used canoes in my price range or saving a bit more for a better canoe. I'll still try the Boreas out for a base line of a narrower style canoe. The Swift Keewadin seems like it would be a better fit for my needs. If necessary I may need to increase my budget. It's been a few years since I've looked at purchasing a new canoe. I know I'm going to be in the $2,500 plus range for what I want. That might limit me to a good used canoe and I'm fine with that.

@scoutergriz, when entering any of the NYC watersheds we need to use a certified wash station to register our boats and after they are washed a sticker is placed on the canoe or boat so law enforcement can identify it has been cleaned and registered for that body of water.

 

[stripperguy]

Hmmm,
Since you mentioned a budget of $2,500 or so, have you considered building your own boat?
For that budget, you could build at least two canoes, and possibly a third, depending on materials.
There’s quite a few of us that could mentor you, virtually, or possibly IRL.
Just something to mull over.

 

[TimJ]

Hmmm,
Since you mentioned a budget of $2,500 or so, have you considered building your own boat?
For that budget, you could build at least two canoes, and possibly a third, depending on materials.
There’s quite a few of us that could mentor you, virtually, or possibly IRL.
Just something to mull over.

I do appreciate the offer. But, that would be a little more than I'd like to tackle. I did start making a traditional beaver tail paddle today. I purchased this book and made the patterns. I also roughed out the pieces for a laminated version in Ash and Walnut as they were the best choices of wood I have on hand.

 

[snapper]

@TimJ - After reading your height & weight, I'm pretty much in your ballpark; although I tip the scales closer to 215. For what it's worth, I was able to pick up a used Hemlock Canoe "Peregrine" and have been very happy with the purchase. I can fish out of it and it's essentially my trip boat at this point. It's also the one solo I have that my dog can join me in so that's an added bonus. While you may have already honed in on a potential canoe, I'd suggest you check the Hemlock website to see what they may have in their used sale section.

That's all for now. Take care, good luck in selecting your canoe and until next time...be well.

snapper

PS - Hemlock has a smaller version of the "Peregrine" called the "Kestrel" so you have options with that company.

 

[TimJ]

@TimJ - After reading your height & weight, I'm pretty much in your ballpark; although I tip the scales closer to 215. For what it's worth, I was able to pick up a used Hemlock Canoe "Peregrine" and have been very happy with the purchase. I can fish out of it and it's essentially my trip boat at this point. It's also the one solo I have that my dog can join me in so that's an added bonus. While you may have already honed in on a potential canoe, I'd suggest you check the Hemlock website to see what they may have in their used sale section.

That's all for now. Take care, good luck in selecting your canoe and until next time...be well.

snapper

PS - Hemlock has a smaller version of the "Peregrine" called the "Kestrel" so you have options with that company.

Thanks for your input @snapper. I have looked at Hemlock Canoes, both models you mentioned. If the right used canoe comes along they would be on my short list. I love the area you're from. I used to ride my motorcycle out that way on day trips. No destination, just head in a general direction and turn back after 4-5 hours.
Thanks again and happy paddling.

 

[Cruiser]

Thanks for all the great suggestions folks. As M Clemens mentioned I might be better off waiting until the spring and looking at used canoes in my price range or saving a bit more for a better canoe. I'll still try the Boreas out for a base line of a narrower style canoe. The Swift Keewadin seems like it would be a better fit for my needs. If necessary I may need to increase my budget. It's been a few years since I've looked at purchasing a new canoe. I know I'm going to be in the $2,500 plus range for what I want. That might limit me to a good used canoe and I'm fine with that.

@scoutergriz, when entering any of the NYC watersheds we need to use a certified wash station to register our boats and after they are washed a sticker is placed on the canoe or boat so law enforcement can identify it has been cleaned and registered for that body of water.View attachment 144090

The KeeWadin series are a great performance line IMO ... the 14' Pack is very light and paddles well, I find it a bit too small for my gear for a week out in the bush. The 15 solo is about perfect for my uses, several folks in my group use them, love.

 

[TimJ]

The KeeWadin series are a great performance line IMO ... the 14' Pack is very light and paddles well, I find it a bit too small for my gear for a week out in the bush. The 15 solo is about perfect for my uses, several folks in my group use them, love.

Thanks for your input @Cruiser. If money were no object. I would go test paddle and pick up a new Swift canoe today. It appears they are the best built canoe I've looked at so far. With any luck I'll find a great used one.

 

[Cruiser]

Thanks for your input @Cruiser. If money were no object. I would go test paddle and pick up a new Swift canoe today. It appears they are the best built canoe I've looked at so far. With any luck I'll find a great used one.

I have been building my own so long that I was shocked at the cost and rental fees TBH. I like the Keywadin series enough, that took the lines off a K pack 14 and have built a 15' version, with a 17' imminent ..... I wish you luck on your hunt

 

[TimJ]

I have been building my own so long that I was shocked at the cost and rental fees TBH. I like the Keywadin series enough, that took the lines off a K pack 14 and have built a 15' version, with a 17' imminent ..... I wish you luck on your hunt

The cost surprised me too. Other than the OT Sanranac. My last boat was a "V" hull fishing boat. It was a 14" Sea Nymph with a 15hp Suzuki outboard and trailer. It was used. But, that only cost $2300.00

 

[TimJ]

Here's a look at my Ash and Walnut laminated Beaver tail paddle. I put a coat of linseed oil on. I'll allow the boiled linseed oil a few weeks to cure. Then I'll apply 4 coats of Spar Varnish on it.

 

[TimJ]

Here's the Maple and Cherry with a coat of linseed oil.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I'm new to this site

Tim, I'm late to this thread but would like to welcome you to site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos, and to start threads, in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Many of the site's technical features are explained in Features: Help and How-To Running Thread. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.

In my experience, private sellers of used canoes are more desperate to sell in the fall and early winter than they are in late winter and spring, so you may get your best prices at that time if you find something you like.

Please consider breaking out your paddle making project and pictures as a separate thread in our DIY forum. That will make it more visible to future searchers and researchers interested in finding paddle making information and ideas.

 

[TimJ]

Tim, I'm late to this thread but would like to welcome you to site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos, and to start threads, in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Many of the site's technical features are explained in Features: Help and How-To Running Thread. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.

In my experience, private sellers of used canoes are more desperate to sell in the fall and early winter than they are in late winter and spring, so you may get your best prices at that time if you find something you like.

Please consider breaking out your paddle making project and pictures as a separate thread in our DIY forum. That will make it more visible to future searchers and researchers interested in finding paddle making information and ideas.

Thank you @Glenn MacGrady. I've been looking for used canoes I'd be interested in with a 200 mile radius. Nothing of interest is showing up. I saw the DIY forum and that others posted threads there. I wasn't sure what thread to post my photo's in or if I should create another paddle making thread. I may have missed a shared paddle making thread if there was one in that forum section. I'll keep this thread focused on the original thread title now.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I wasn't sure what thread to post my photo's in or if I should create another paddle making thread.

I suggest creating your own thread with text and pictures about your paddle making project.