Just to hit the extremes here, I knew a guy that carried a 5' Broadsword while hiking in the Whites Mtns of NH. He'd whip it out for his summit pictures.
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Carrying a gun when canoe traveling just because
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
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I've only ever carried a gun when I was actually hunting something, and that was many years ago. People carrying guns for protection generally make me nervous whether or not they're on my team. I live and play in grizzly country here in Montana and before that when I was growing up in Alaska. I've never been in a situation that made me wish I had a gun for protection. I've heard plenty of second hand bear encounter stories, but no first hand stories that convince me a gun made or could have made any difference. I think there are probably a very small number of specific situations where a gun could make a difference, but only in the hands of a professional, either well trained law enforcement or military. I carry bear spray now, when I remember to bring it, but that too would require a significant amount of practice to be able to effectively use it. As the saying goes, "you pack for your fears".
During the Yukon River 1000 mile canoe races, we see many bears ( both black and griz) and moose. We were told to be more afraid of the danger from moose than from bears. The question was asked if a firearm could be carried during the race. Well, yes, even though the hurdles and dobatacles of paperwork of legal transpsort across canada and US states were a great painful obstacle. But the kicker rule was, that if an animal was killed out of season, the law stated that it had to be carried to the nearest official law enforcement office from the incident kill site. Nevermind that the nearest might be located a hundred miles supstrream against a constant 6mph river current. End of story. The ladies on my team carried a couple of cans of bear spray and kept them close at our campsites, and put up a rope with bells around their tent perimeter, especially when we camped in locations where we saw recent tracks at our siite.
I have never carried a rifle or shotgun unless I was hunting, I don't any handguns anymore but I did camp with two guys in the ADK who carried. I didn't know them that well but I don't think we even talked that much about them having the weapons along, I respected their right to carry and that was it.
One time, camped at that beautiful spot along the Cedar River just before it enters Cedar River Flow, just me and my twin sons (maybe 8 years old), a guy paddled by dressed like a game warden with a pistol on his hip attached to an official looking black leather duty belt. He saluted us with his right hand tipping his green baseball cap, looking good in his green pants and shirt, my sons waved back. I could be wrong, but I think this fella was playing the roll.
I always brought BB guns when the kids came along, great fun and a good way to reinforce gun saftey at that early age.
One time, camped at that beautiful spot along the Cedar River just before it enters Cedar River Flow, just me and my twin sons (maybe 8 years old), a guy paddled by dressed like a game warden with a pistol on his hip attached to an official looking black leather duty belt. He saluted us with his right hand tipping his green baseball cap, looking good in his green pants and shirt, my sons waved back. I could be wrong, but I think this fella was playing the roll.
I always brought BB guns when the kids came along, great fun and a good way to reinforce gun saftey at that early age.
I think it is highly unlikely that I will ever have to use a gun for protection. It is also very unlikely that my house will burn down but I still carry insurance.
Spray and bangers may be enough insurance for some people and for some trips.
Spray and bangers may be enough insurance for some people and for some trips.
I don't have that either.
I'm not throwing rocks at anyone who does carry firearms for protection of any sort. I'm comfortable not carrying in the places I travel but there are places where I wouldn't be.
Alan
I used to hunt, but have never felt the need to carry while paddling, which I've done in the southeast, northeast, and Midwest US. When I worked in backcountry Yellowstone we got bear training and carried bear spray. Training focused on bear behavior, good camp craft and making noise to avoid surprising a bear or moose in thick cover. Spray was a last resort. I've used that bear training knowledge whenever I'm in the backcountry, or front country, where I've seen the majority of my bears. Whether it's bears or gators, the ones in the front country scare me more - more likely to be habituated and fed. In the backcountry they tend to slip away quietly in my experience.
Personally, I'll take common sense over a gun at least in the lower 48. Plus, guns and bullets are heavy! I'd rather take more food and booze for the campfire!
Personally, I'll take common sense over a gun at least in the lower 48. Plus, guns and bullets are heavy! I'd rather take more food and booze for the campfire!
A lot might depend on where you are from that affects your perception on wheather or not to carry. Living in Anchorage for over 30 years and seeing newspaper articles about nearby bear attacks every year probably had an effect on me. In addition to that I've run into more people that have had problems and close calls with bears up there than I would have in Pa.
If you want to go to NY with a handgun, forget about it. It is hard enough for residents to get a pistol permit. Impossible for non-residents. Except maybe if you are wealthy, politically connected, and you pay off the right people.
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YC, I haven’t yet needed one. Been glad I had one a couple times, and wished I had a couple other times.
I have the training, but not the “keeping in practice”. I grew up with guns, reloading equipment and shot every weekend. I was lousy with a pistol, decent with a rifle and, I’ll say it, pretty dang good wing shooting with a shot gun.
It has been 10+ years since I shot even semi-regularly, and I’m now probably out-of-practice lousy at all three. Still, the safety lessons are muscle memory ingrained; it would take a Major Award for me to shoot my eye out ;-)
Seriously, I think it comes down to comfort level, which comes with experience, or at least instruction; just buying a gun and keeping it in the nightstand (tent, truck, camper, etc ) without learning range safety and handling, under a bit of supervised practice, is not a good idea. In that sense it is a commitment.
That stuff is teachable even to an old dog. A State Hunter Safety course is usually low cost or even free. Even if you don’t hunt, understanding what’s legal and what’s not has merit.
https://www.maine.gov/ifw/programs-...ms/safety-courses/firearms-hunter-safety.html
I don’t know about the “On-line” version, something Instructor led hands-on seems a more valuable experience.
Kinda like taking a (motor) boat safety class even if you are a paddler. Know thy enemy; joking of course, but learning everyone’s rules of the watery road can’t hurt. Just one more knowledge arrow in your quiver. Or round in your clip.
I have the training, but not the “keeping in practice”. I grew up with guns, reloading equipment and shot every weekend. I was lousy with a pistol, decent with a rifle and, I’ll say it, pretty dang good wing shooting with a shot gun.
It has been 10+ years since I shot even semi-regularly, and I’m now probably out-of-practice lousy at all three. Still, the safety lessons are muscle memory ingrained; it would take a Major Award for me to shoot my eye out ;-)
Seriously, I think it comes down to comfort level, which comes with experience, or at least instruction; just buying a gun and keeping it in the nightstand (tent, truck, camper, etc ) without learning range safety and handling, under a bit of supervised practice, is not a good idea. In that sense it is a commitment.
That stuff is teachable even to an old dog. A State Hunter Safety course is usually low cost or even free. Even if you don’t hunt, understanding what’s legal and what’s not has merit.
https://www.maine.gov/ifw/programs-...ms/safety-courses/firearms-hunter-safety.html
I don’t know about the “On-line” version, something Instructor led hands-on seems a more valuable experience.
Kinda like taking a (motor) boat safety class even if you are a paddler. Know thy enemy; joking of course, but learning everyone’s rules of the watery road can’t hurt. Just one more knowledge arrow in your quiver. Or round in your clip.
What did he do with the Broadsword?
Training - Of course training is important. I assume a formal training course is a prerequisite for getting a handgun permit in most states. It is in Connecticut. No training course was needed for me to register a shotgun, but just a background check.
Handgun permits in NYS - A case was argued in the United States Supreme Court last month regarding the restrictiveness of New York State's carry law for handguns. The result won't be announced until June, but most legal analysts are predicting the Supreme Court will rule in favor of striking down many of the restrictions.
Handgun permits in NYS - A case was argued in the United States Supreme Court last month regarding the restrictiveness of New York State's carry law for handguns. The result won't be announced until June, but most legal analysts are predicting the Supreme Court will rule in favor of striking down many of the restrictions.
My first feelings that I might want a side arm was after I started to sleep in the covered bed of my pickup truck in remote locations. If there is going to be trouble at my tailgate I am pretty defenseless, and without a retreat option.
The confusing mixture of differing state/municipal laws regulating firearms led me to opt out of gun ownership and instead try to sleep where I’m less likely to find trouble at my tailgate
The confusing mixture of differing state/municipal laws regulating firearms led me to opt out of gun ownership and instead try to sleep where I’m less likely to find trouble at my tailgate
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I have carried firearms of varying types at work, in my vehicle and occasionally on canoe trips. With age and the availability of bear spray I haven't taken a firearm remote camping in years.
Equipment directly impacts the success and enjoyment of my activities and evaluating the function and use is interesting and important to me. Safety related equipment such as firearms present additional legal and psychological considerations.
My position:
I believe in the rule of law and make an effort to understand and comply.
Use of deadly force has considerable psychological consequences that need to be thoroughly understood and considered before a split second decision is required.
Vaccines, life jackets, seat belts, storm shelters or firearms in and of themselves may have little practical value in the actual moment of need however the psychological peace of mind that they may provide is valuable and worth consideration.
John
It sounds like I broke the law taking a handgun into the Adirondaks. I would have been good with bear spray but it was 60 bucks a can and I couldn't do it.
I carry a large-bore rifle on remote, multi-week Alaska and Canada trips for grizzly and polar bear protection (and everyone has bear spray). (For those who think I should carry a shotgun, well, I don't have one, and I do have a Marlin 45-70 with hot loads.) The following incident perfectly describes a situation I don't want to get in. Losing a canoe up there would suck. https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/saved-by-garmin/couple-escapes-grizzly-bear/. And then there is the incident the year before we did an almost identical trip https://isthmus.com/news/cover-story/face-to-face-with-a-polar-bear/.
I've tripped and lived all over Canada and seen multiple Black or brown bears and never once felt the need for a gun. Even the guy in my profile pic couldn't get away fast enough after I yelled and threw a handful of gravel. I prefer to be proactive and chase them away as soon as they come near, rather than reactive and wait until I have no options.
It all depends on your experience. One of the members of this board lost a friend due to a bear attack even though the victim was bear savvy. I don't think he ever never carries.
in the days long before SPOT and personal PLB devices, I would go solo deep into the Adirondacks a few times a year. Having grown up with many guns in the house owned by my father, and at first going into the woods with him before I was old enough to hunt with a gun I learned gun safety at an early age. So my father encouraged me to get my NYS pistol permit by taking a course from a friend and co-worker of his. He cautioned me to not ever put "for personal safety" as a reason on my permit application. So Dad gave me a 380auto to carry, not for protection, but rather as an emeregency noise maker when I traveled to remote places in case I needed to signal for help. I carried it on several trips, but the darn thing, along with rounds enoughto last for several 3 shot sequences adds a lot of weight to my otherwise lightweight pack. As my experience grew in general outdoor safety and navigation grew, I felt less need to carry for signaling. So although I still have that gun (as well as several others), I no longer carry on my wilderness trips. Of course when I travel with and train wilderness guides for scouts, carrying is forbidden by policy anyway. For myself, I find it difficult to keep the practiced edge now in recent years, since ammunition is almost impossible to find at any of the usual vendors.
I similarly taught my son gun safety and firearm respect at an early age in the same way that my dad taught me. When he was at USAFA, he competed in intercollegiate shooting and ended up with an overall personal third place standing in national competion. Living in Texas now, he does not have the severe restrictions that I have in NY and he is passing the teaching on to his own children.
Which reminds me... does anyone remember when rural high schools (such as mine through the late 60's) had rifle clubs and shooting ranges on school property? Teams woud travel (on school busses with their equipment) and compete with other regional schools in the same way as was done with any other school athletic sport. Those days a long long gone.
I similarly taught my son gun safety and firearm respect at an early age in the same way that my dad taught me. When he was at USAFA, he competed in intercollegiate shooting and ended up with an overall personal third place standing in national competion. Living in Texas now, he does not have the severe restrictions that I have in NY and he is passing the teaching on to his own children.
Which reminds me... does anyone remember when rural high schools (such as mine through the late 60's) had rifle clubs and shooting ranges on school property? Teams woud travel (on school busses with their equipment) and compete with other regional schools in the same way as was done with any other school athletic sport. Those days a long long gone.
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I'm not worried about black bears. Chasing away grizzly or polar bears has its limitations. And once those limitations have been exceeded, and a bear is destroying your canoe and you're 200+ miles from the nearest community, and probably further from any evacuation resource, as referenced in my original post, what do you do? I've lived throughout grizzly country (Wyoming, Montana and Alaska) for 25 years, and don't carry a firearm as my primary defense. The only time I've been charged (by a grizzly in Alaska) I had no physical defenses, and we both went home safely. Chasing it away, which you prefer, was not an option, and would have likely resulted in a different outcome.
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