Canoes & Dogs...

[FartherWest]

Hi Everyone,

It been years since my dog passed away and he was so amazing that I just couldn't get another one right away. Now, I think its time to have another adventure buddy.... so my question goes out to those of you who routinely take you four legged friend in the canoe....

At what age did you introduce your dog/puppy to the canoe and the tent?

And - what kind of water will you take the dog in - class i, ii, lakes only?

Were there any behavioral benchmarks that you had in mind before you took each step?

Thanks in advance for the ideas and please post pictures if you have them.

Cheers!
Kathy

 

[Jim Dodd]

Every dog will have their own personality !
I really miss my old Rat Terrier. I couldn't leave my place with a canoe on the truck, without her !

She was good in a canoe, but loved to run the bank ! She also loved to harass wildlife ! A dog, not to big and with good Manners would be the qualifications I'd require !

Alan's Sadie is near Perfect ! Oh except if a Skunk shows up ! Ha ! You will have to ask Alan about Sadie's Recent encounter !

 

[gumpus]

Hi FW. This is a topic close to my heart. I waited some time too after our black lab passed away. She was the only dog allowed on Great Lakes Paddlers club events and regulars on the Huron river knew her by name.

I used same approach for two dogs. Never force them...just be enthusiastic. Make first paddle a short happy event. Both of mine were around a year old when they started paddling...maybe a bit less. I had a short leash on them in the very beginning so I could give them a firm correction if they got too fidgety/active...and the only extra command they needed to learn was "settle down". I always have mini milkbone treats in my pocket, they are only 2 or 3 calories each. If I accidentally splash the dog or whack it with my paddle when switching sides, they get a treat. I make them lay down when approaching something dangerous or in big wind or waves...so they learn to expect to be told to lay down in rough stuff. They both learned "get in the boat" quickly since it's a lot like "get in the car" (and even more fun). I found that both dogs took to the canoe quickly and were surprisingly calm for young dogs...they seem more than happy to follow a few easy rules if they get to go paddling. Secure footing is important and you can see how I use 2 t-shaped kneeling pads to make sure we are both on solid footing.

You our can easily fit a 60-70 pound dog in your Merlin II. The lab was heavier but shorter than the coonhound so she could lay sideways in the boat but the coonhound is tall so she has to lay lengthwise (or sit) in a Merlin II.

 

[Alan Gage]

I'd say start them as soon as possible. In my opinion they should have a designated spot in the boat and stay there unless told otherwise. The boat is trimmed based on the dog's position. Don't get in the boat unless told and don't get out of the boat unless told. If you're wilderness tripping and camping the dog needs to obey. Can't be running off into the woods after rabbits or disappearing for 15 minutes on a lark while you're waiting at the portage trail and wondering if you're dog is ever going to come back.

When I went shopping for my last dog I was purposefully looking for one that would be a good fit in the canoe and that could keep up with me on my regular walks through the prairie. I knew for the canoe I wanted relatively small and for walking through tall grass I needed long legs and skinny. Kept an eye on the local shelters and found my dream dog after about a month. My first shelter dog and the best dog I've ever owned. I put her in the canoe the day I brought her home and she did fine.

She was only 1 year old when I got her and has filled out a bit since then. She runs around 28 pounds. Perfect size and shape for canoeing and camping in my opinion. Big enough to not need my help with much but small enough that I can easily pick her up or manhandle if necessary and doesn't rock the boat or take up much room in the tent. Also plenty of room for her in the canoe which can be important if paddling all day with gear.

Smaller dog also means less food and mess. Important for a 6 week trip.

I run up to class II with her and she hates it.

This is her first day in the canoe:

20100711_012 copy_web by Alan, on Flickr

First canoe trip (to WCPP):

20120828_007 by Alan, on Flickr

Here she's happily portaging around a large rapid:

20150819_002 by Alan, on Flickr

And warming up on the last full day of our 6 week trip. We were wind bound with rain, wind, snow and sleet before finally catching a break the next day and getting out:

20160911_496 by Alan, on Flickr

Last day was perfect weather for crossing a big lake:

20160912_511 by Alan, on Flickr


Alan

 

[snapper]

You've already received some great replies but I'll add my two cents as well. Our current pooch is also a rescue dog and we got her just before her first birthday; which is considered Dec. 1st. I spent a lot of time with her prior to paddling season so I'd be confident (as much as I could be) that she would follow simple commands. As soon as the weather got nice I took the canoe out of the barn and let her investigate it at her leisure while it sat on the lawn. I put a few treats inside as well to encourage her to get in. Eventually I started her out on our small farm pond so if it didn't go well she wasn't going to be in unfamiliar territory. Eventually my wife and I took her to a protected pond and tried her out in our tandem. I took her back to the same location with the solo and worked with her being with just me as well. A nice feature of this pond is there is a cut that goes out to the Susquehanna River. When we felt she was ready we traveled through the cut and hit the main river. Again, I did this in both our tandem and with her alone in my solo. From there we just worked on hitting larger expanses of water so she would get comfortable with the shore being further and further away. Along the way there were treats, lots of praise, hugs and belly rubs. At this point she now has her designated spot in both the tandem and my solo so she knows where to go. She is also comfortable lying down but, based on an idea I read in a previous post here, I lay an old yoga mat down for her so it's a bit warmer and, more importantly, she doesn't slide around when there's water on the floor of the boat.

All this took place during 2017 so hopefully there will be a large carryover in 2018. If not, I guess we'll need to start all over again but that's OK...it will just give us more of an excuse for getting out together.

As for where will I eventually paddle with her, my guess is it will be essentially flatwater and/or slowly moving rivers & streams but I'm not ruling out larger lakes as I'd like to have her join me on some Adirondack adventures in the future.

That's all for now. Best of luck in developing your new paddling partner. There's definitely some effort involved but it all seems worth it in the end. Until next time....be well.

snapper

 

[FartherWest]

I know I am a little ahead of the game - I cant get a puppy until after tax season for logistical reasons. But, having a carrot helps me get through grind...

Thank you for the replies. It was seeing Alan and Sadie's adventures that gave me the initial inspiration and then life happened, so its time for another dog. I've never had a dog in a boat with me before so this is new territory. Ideas on shapes and sizes were helpful, and so was the introductory information. I'll keep all that in mind for the summer.

Can you tell I am excited?!

Living vicariously through others - Kathy

 

[snapper]

Kathy - I forgot to mention, our dog Juneau is a border collie/lab/retriever mix who weighs in just under 60 pounds. The biggest thing I've found with her is making sure she is comfortable in the canoe so she doesn't ramble from side to side. That's why I worked so hard with her to be able to lie down for extended periods of time without her becoming uncomfortable. She does seem to want to be "part of the action" but that's been cared for by letting her lay her head upon the gunwales so she can look all around. Once we worked that out, she became pretty happy.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.

snapper

 

[cflcanoe]

Have been waiting on the experts to raise this point but they have been missing this. You will want a dog that wants to stay with you. My beagles liked to follow their nose. This caused problems when camping. Never knew were they wold end upCurrent dogs are collie/lab and ABCA boarder collie. They both like to stick close by when in the wilderness. Both came from the pound

 

[Guest]

Most Dogs in the wilderness are like we would be on mars. Please remember the may act unpredictable and not relate to people and property like they do at home. Please be considerate of others that don't feel the same way as you do about them.

 

[FartherWest]

I am looking at another Australian Shepherd, preferably a male. That puts me in the size range you all have mentioned, he should just fit in the Merlin and be more than comfy in the Prospector.

My first dog was an Aussie ('Cash') and he was amazing. His prey drive was out of this world for a few years thanks to his heritage, but I found other avenues for his enthusiasm. Training is a must so no worries there. Cash 'stayed on a down' and watched me open Christmas presents from the hardwood floors (about 10 feet away because he wasn't allowed on the carpet), and he wasn't even a year old. Hard headed, but loving. Sure do miss him.

As far as camping went, he was good off leash. His idea of herding involved running ahead and trying to trip my step-dad by standing in front of him (your going to fast) and then walking behind my mom and I, casually bumping into our calves (if you twp stop talking about flowers, I can keep the three of you together....).

That night was the only time he was tied up in camp. He always stayed by me, but the the neighbors about halfway around the lake had come to camp on ATVs, and they had steak. We had backpacked in and, well, I was tempted to go there for dinner too.... but. So I tied him up for the night and he pouted like I had just ended the world. My mom thought it was hilarious.

So back to the issue at hand, if the little guy has too much energy when first introduced to being in the canoe, best to use a little energy up first. That way it is easier to sit relatively still and enjoy the ride. Treats for quiet behavior in the boat.

I like it - thank you!!

 

[cflcanoe]

FatherWest apologize about continuing/stealing your thread. Would like to know if the canoe going dogs remember spots from previous trips? Is a hard ("hard headed" or stubborn) that is harder to train but wont give up on a task or a soft that is easier to train but also will end a given task sooner better in the canoe? Thinking that a smooth coat would be better than a rough coat. As a smooth coat gets less seeds and other things in its coat. But maybe a rough coat will be better as the dog would be better insulated?

Do not know how we did it but our herding dogs do not herd us. They look to us as the goal to bring the herd to. As the part of the pack that the prey is to be headed toward for the kill.

Wish our dogs could safely go canoeing with us. Gators (not the football team) are a concern. We have had gators respond differently to how they look at our canoe when dogs are aboard. One we nicknamed Evinrude as his mating call sounded like an old Evinrude motor not starting easy would always go under for our canoe. That is except when dogs were on board. Then he would eye ball us.

Turtle my dogs are lucky enough to train most days for 45 minutes to an hour a day for "wilderness trekking". Our largest problem is that they do not understand when some one dose not want to be around them. They have a long voice command. "do not want to pet" But it works, a strong recall whistle, and they have a "sniff in go" command. Which means they get to sniff until we pass them then they must get back to scouting ahead again. Wife demands that they act as scouts. Even though they are ninety eight per cent of the time on a leash. What special verbal commands or whistle commands do you teach canoe dogs?

 

[Guest]

Another factor is here in NY bears and coywolves react very differently to humans when you have a dog along. The two seldom mix well. Dogs seem to either go after bears or be terrified of them. coywolves sometimes attack dogs. Encounters with these two are more likely when you have a dog along.

 

[FartherWest]

Another factor is here in NY bears and coywolves react very differently to humans when you have a dog along. The two seldom mix well. Dogs seem to either go after bears or be terrified of them. coywolves sometimes attack dogs. Encounters with these two are more likely when you have a dog along.

Interesting observations about how wildlife reacts with dogs in the boat. I am profoundly thankful we don't have gators up here. Honestly I'd probably have a hard time relaxing and enjoying a paddle while in the presence of something roughly the same length as my canoe that could also consider me a decent meal. Hats off to you.

We have black bear up here as well and cougar and wolves. I don think the cats will be a problem, but the coyotes, wolves and bears are something to consider. Will check into that as I start looking at going camping out of the boat - probably next year when the rules are better established and the recall is working really well in all situations. Sounds like this year is going to be progressively longer trips in the boat and establishing good boat, dock and shore behavior.

Fun! Can't wait!

 

[MacCamper]

My Sadie is a great camping pal. She took to the canoe and adventuring activity very fast, no real tricks to get her acclimated, at about two years of age. I do keep her on a lead the first pass over a portage in case other campers are not dog friendly. If nobody is about I will then allow her off the lead for the next trip. Never an issue with any creatures except for the time she jumped the canoe to get a closer look at a pair of otters. A big surprise to her.

 

[Guest]

I once encountered a man on the upper osswagochie with a beautiful liver springer spaniel. The dog sleeps outside his small tent, and during the night a bear came close and the dog burrowed under his tent and quivered all night. he said she didn't stop shaking till they launched the next day!

 

[Zac]

My yellow lab is amazing. Best dog I will ever have. However, at (a very fit and trim) 96 pounds he is a load and takes up quite a bit of space. If I were choosing a dog with the canoe in mind, I would certainly not choose a dog larger than half of his size. The only real advantage to his size came after I purchased a set of packs for him. I have loaded him with up to 25 pounds for portages. Less for hikes longer than a mile, of course. Having two sets of packs means that on the annual double-portage BWCA trips with the extended family he is hauling up to 50 pounds.

At what age did you introduce your dog/puppy to the canoe and the tent?

And - what kind of water will you take the dog in - class i, ii, lakes only?

Were there any behavioral benchmarks that you had in mind before you took each step?

Here is a recent thread about introducing a dog to the canoe http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/...g-to-the-canoe
Boomer was 3 before I introduced him to a canoe, but I will introduce the next one before one year. After some initial trial runs in a bare canoe, I began placing gear in the compartment with him to immobilize him somewhat. After a couple of week-long trips like this, he was much better at staying in one place after I removed the gear. Introducing him to the tent was never even a thought for me. Obedience is fundamental.

We have paddled lakes and rivers; both large and small. He has come with on 7 BWCA trips varying between 3 and 9 days. Large and small lakes with portages. Early on, he would get nervous in wind and waves but for the first year or so I kept him within reach of me so I could soothe him physically in addition to verbally. Obedience is fundamental: I'm sure he would have tipped the canoe a few times in his first year if he was less obedient. With some experience under his collar, we have tripped a couple of larger rivers and spent days on many smaller rivers, mostly for fishing but a couple times for the rapids. The only place we've ever capsized was on the west fork of the Bitterroot of Montana last July. 3 times that one day... but it was human error. Mostly I blame the poor information from the bartender the night before (or was it malice?). We probably could have kept it dry by doing more wading and lining and less beer drinking, or by being geared for whitewater instead of fishing and beer drinking, or by having any idea what we were doing. Amazingly, he never hesitated to jump back in the canoe. 100% amateur at classing whitewater here, but I believe we have ran plenty of class ii successfully on day trips. I'm sure with his experience to date he would be calmer in class iii than I am.

Benchmarks - Babysteps is the word I would use here. I made sure he was comfortable on small calm water before venturing onto bigger lakes, and comfortable on lakes with some chop before attempting any rapids.

My dog is my favorite companion and he makes every day in the wild more enjoyable. I hope you make a real bond with your next canine and enjoy many days tripping together!

 

[gumpus]

What a bunch of great canoe dogs!

Attached is a crummy shot of Jessie the Wonder Dog. We used to paddle in the Ann Arbor area almost every day and 3 times a day on weekends. Jessie would sit quietly in front of me for hours on end. Sometimes I'd have to brush the accumulating snow off of her. Once it rained on us so hard that I had to stop and dump the water out of the (sinking) boat. No complaints ever. She jumped into an empty floating solo canoe several times and jumped from canoe to canoe routinely to visit friends. Once she saved us from swamping when crossing an eddyline in an evil Wenonah Rendezvous.

Zoey is a coonhound mutt and as her DNA testing results say " they are hounds and given a chance they will run away". But she's smart and good natured and comes with plenty of personality. And paddling puts her "in the zone" pretty much just like the lab.
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[gumpus]

If you get an independent decision-maker like a coonhound then training is more of a 2 way street...more like a negotiation.

This look means "I HATE wearing my sweater"