So says Professor Misao Dean.....
http://heatst.com/culture-wars/white...ian-professor/
Is this really "a thing"?
http://heatst.com/culture-wars/white...ian-professor/
Is this really "a thing"?
-
Happy World Aquatic Animal Day! 🐟🦦🐊
We suck
- Thread starter Steve in Idaho
- Start date
Yes, when I paddle a canoe, I am responsible for the deaths of thousands of first nations people. It all makes sense to me. I do feel privileged to be able to enjoy nature. Other than that, in my case white privilege is bullpucky . I have busted my arse since age 13 and bought and payed for everything I own. I guess I have the privilege of earning my way through life. I'll also guess you can tell I'm not PC. Steve, have a nice day and keep on poling. I think of you every time I attempt to pole up a certain stream near home. Not PC Dave
The same incendiary article was linked to over on BWCA.com too. Follow the link in the article to the CBC and listen to the original interview. I might not agree with everything she says but this "news article" is blowing things out of proportion just to get a reaction and, in my opinion, is more offensive than anything she said.
I agree with what she says in the last minute of the interview and had similar thoughts while on my last trip. If I was to ever hunt and fish while traveling through that area I'd have to pay my money to the Canadian government in order to be legal but ethically I wouldn't feel right about it without asking permission from the local First Nations.
Alan
I agree with what she says in the last minute of the interview and had similar thoughts while on my last trip. If I was to ever hunt and fish while traveling through that area I'd have to pay my money to the Canadian government in order to be legal but ethically I wouldn't feel right about it without asking permission from the local First Nations.
Alan
Alan, bit off track, but on your recent journey did you have to pull permits or pay any fees to travel through those lands that you paddled for so many days...is that First Nations, parkland, Crown land...? (just curious as I am trying to reconcile something I read in Downe's journals).
I would know in the states; private, preserve and/or vs any number of US govt entities or native reservations.
I would know in the states; private, preserve and/or vs any number of US govt entities or native reservations.
There are a lot of left thinking people in Canada who have never left a city. They have been fed a steady diet of forced multi-cultural theory through compulsory education in the public schools. There is certainly nothing wrong with teaching tolerance and acceptance, but when we read articles such as the one above, it is easy to see that the intellectualization of the game oppression has lead to an excessive overflow of White guilt.
In Canada, the First Nations people have certainly gotten the short end of the sick for many years. Residential schools and the forced cultural genocide of the last century have left many reserves in a profound state of trauma.
However, let's not forget the history of the fur trade; the First nations people wanted it as much as the Europeans. The canoe was a joint venture for them toward profit. I think it is insulting to FN people to say that they were ruthlessly oppressed by the europeans in these early days. They knew exactly what they were doing, and they fought amongst each other to retain control of the lucrative trade. If the early Huron and Iroquois had banded together to prevent European expansion, they most likely would have been successful in keeping them locked into small settlements along the St. Lawrence.
I went fishing and hunting with the good Anishnabe folk in Eabametoong when I lived there in 16 foot deep and wide aluminium boats with 40 horse power motors. If the canoe is a tool of oppression, have these good people internalized their oppression by trading their canoes in for the white man's boat? Do they feel victimized when they jump in their boats? Of course not, because they don't have time to think about bullpucky like that, they're too busy living life.
In Canada, the First Nations people have certainly gotten the short end of the sick for many years. Residential schools and the forced cultural genocide of the last century have left many reserves in a profound state of trauma.
However, let's not forget the history of the fur trade; the First nations people wanted it as much as the Europeans. The canoe was a joint venture for them toward profit. I think it is insulting to FN people to say that they were ruthlessly oppressed by the europeans in these early days. They knew exactly what they were doing, and they fought amongst each other to retain control of the lucrative trade. If the early Huron and Iroquois had banded together to prevent European expansion, they most likely would have been successful in keeping them locked into small settlements along the St. Lawrence.
I went fishing and hunting with the good Anishnabe folk in Eabametoong when I lived there in 16 foot deep and wide aluminium boats with 40 horse power motors. If the canoe is a tool of oppression, have these good people internalized their oppression by trading their canoes in for the white man's boat? Do they feel victimized when they jump in their boats? Of course not, because they don't have time to think about bullpucky like that, they're too busy living life.
I'm surprised she didn't find a way to work in some link to climate change in all this... that could have brought in more research $$$ in addition to the publicity needed for cranking up the controversy and public attention. Publish or perish.
Some time ago there was a scientific paper published on climate change, glaciology and feminism... since glaciologists were mostly male there exists a need for a feminist viewpoint in the science of glaciers and since glaciers are vulnerable to climate change, it's an important issue. That got research $$$.
Maybe there's a bigger question that could be asked.... could there be a better way to spend the money?
I wonder what our feminist Prime Minister thinks of all this while canoeing... today it's probably, hey... Canada got top travel destination in Lonely Planet! Y'all come on up and pick up a paddle! Enjoy the low priced Loonie, we love them greenbacks!
Some time ago there was a scientific paper published on climate change, glaciology and feminism... since glaciologists were mostly male there exists a need for a feminist viewpoint in the science of glaciers and since glaciers are vulnerable to climate change, it's an important issue. That got research $$$.
Maybe there's a bigger question that could be asked.... could there be a better way to spend the money?
I wonder what our feminist Prime Minister thinks of all this while canoeing... today it's probably, hey... Canada got top travel destination in Lonely Planet! Y'all come on up and pick up a paddle! Enjoy the low priced Loonie, we love them greenbacks!
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2016
- Messages
- 515
- Reaction score
- 105
Is Prof Dean telling us "privileged white folk" that we are responsible for what happened +/- 200 years ago? So it must also be my fault that the US had slavery, huh? If I am doing harm to FN people, should I stay in the US and spend my $$$ here?
don't look for a haven here. Residential schools were a feature in the West of the US too.. If you look at the history of the SW tribes, mistreatment was endemic. And there are no canoes there.
Are York Boats blameless?
I agree, there wasn't anything very controversial about what she said in the interview. As a non-Canadian, though, I certainly don't have a full grasp of what the canoe means as a symbol in that society.
Professor Dean's views were accurately captured in the OP's linked article, although the headline ("reeks") was a bit sensationalist. In her book, she says: "if my paddle represents my desire, as a non-indigenous Canadian, to be vitally and historically and spiritually connected to place, indigenous to Canada, then this book represents both the loss of that dream for me and my attempt to disrupt, trouble, and denaturalize that dream for other non-indigenous Canadians."
Surely Professor Dean is correct about certain things: Virtually all Canadian wilderness canoeists today are white, usually male and well educated -- and old, as the CTN poll has recently proved.
I'd expand Professor Dean's observation even further for the U.S., where we have a history of oppressing not only Indians but blacks. In all my canoe travels around America over many decades, I have encountered only a tiny handful of black canoeists and kayakers and none that I could recognize as Indian. In the South I will see blacks occasionally in fishing boats, but not canoes or kayaks.
So, it's clear to me as a historical fact that white North Americans, ancestral to Europe, adopted canoes and kayaks from racial groups indigenous to the areas that the white Europeans invaded and conquered. Whether anyone should feel guilty today about these historical events is another matter.
Before I feel too much guilt about "appropriating" things from "native" or "indigenous" peoples, I wonder what these terms mean on a more global and longer historical scale. It's my observation from reading history, and simply observing our current planet, that one tribe or people have always been conquering, subjugating and engaging in attempted genocides of other tribes and peoples. No one knows how many migrations originally populated North America from Asia or, in pre-history, what "indigenous" migrants slaughtered other "native" migrants. We do know that various Indian tribes and nations warred on and slaughtered each other from Alaska to South America just in the the post-Columbus era of history, often taking the survivors as slaves.
The racial and religious tribal conquests, re-conquests and slaughters go on today in the Middle East and parts of Africa and Asia, and so does slavery.
So, I save most of my guilt for the species-genocide that my homo sapien ancestors committed against the Neanderthals throughout Europe. We brainy white b*st*rds killed them all.
Well . . . not quite all. Some Neanderthals still survive under different names:
Politicians and college professors.
Surely Professor Dean is correct about certain things: Virtually all Canadian wilderness canoeists today are white, usually male and well educated -- and old, as the CTN poll has recently proved.
I'd expand Professor Dean's observation even further for the U.S., where we have a history of oppressing not only Indians but blacks. In all my canoe travels around America over many decades, I have encountered only a tiny handful of black canoeists and kayakers and none that I could recognize as Indian. In the South I will see blacks occasionally in fishing boats, but not canoes or kayaks.
So, it's clear to me as a historical fact that white North Americans, ancestral to Europe, adopted canoes and kayaks from racial groups indigenous to the areas that the white Europeans invaded and conquered. Whether anyone should feel guilty today about these historical events is another matter.
Before I feel too much guilt about "appropriating" things from "native" or "indigenous" peoples, I wonder what these terms mean on a more global and longer historical scale. It's my observation from reading history, and simply observing our current planet, that one tribe or people have always been conquering, subjugating and engaging in attempted genocides of other tribes and peoples. No one knows how many migrations originally populated North America from Asia or, in pre-history, what "indigenous" migrants slaughtered other "native" migrants. We do know that various Indian tribes and nations warred on and slaughtered each other from Alaska to South America just in the the post-Columbus era of history, often taking the survivors as slaves.
The racial and religious tribal conquests, re-conquests and slaughters go on today in the Middle East and parts of Africa and Asia, and so does slavery.
So, I save most of my guilt for the species-genocide that my homo sapien ancestors committed against the Neanderthals throughout Europe. We brainy white b*st*rds killed them all.
Well . . . not quite all. Some Neanderthals still survive under different names:
Politicians and college professors.
G
Guest
Guest
Well, that’s it. I simply can’t be a party to genocide, cultural theft and white privilege any longer.
I am now forced to sell all of my canoes. And my kayaks, lest I offend the Inuit, Aleut or Yupik.
Crap, I probably can’t sail without offending ancient Egyptians or Polynesians.
As a Scots-Irish white man I have few remaining choices. Acknowledge my roots and paddle a Coracle. DNA test for some Scandinavian Scots blood, built a Viking Longship and pillage the local villages.
Or I could embrace my redneck roots, buy a big arsed power boat and tear through no-wake zones at full throttle while drinking a Budweiser. Yee haaa.
If you want to buy a used canoe or kayak I’ll need a DNA sample and proof of tribal membership, and you better not show up wearing fleece or Gore-Tex.
I am now forced to sell all of my canoes. And my kayaks, lest I offend the Inuit, Aleut or Yupik.
Crap, I probably can’t sail without offending ancient Egyptians or Polynesians.
As a Scots-Irish white man I have few remaining choices. Acknowledge my roots and paddle a Coracle. DNA test for some Scandinavian Scots blood, built a Viking Longship and pillage the local villages.
Or I could embrace my redneck roots, buy a big arsed power boat and tear through no-wake zones at full throttle while drinking a Budweiser. Yee haaa.
If you want to buy a used canoe or kayak I’ll need a DNA sample and proof of tribal membership, and you better not show up wearing fleece or Gore-Tex.
G
Guest
Guest
Canoeing and kayaking are probably among the whitest activities in the US. Back when the Duckheads were in full throttle we day paddled with dozens of African-American and African post-docs, lab techs, nurses and researchers. Scheduled trips, loaner boats and gear, and enjoyable times. But none that I know of went on to buy a canoe or become enamored of the activity, despite the introduction.
Other than a few black guys in johnboats checking trot lines on swamp rivers nearly every other person I have seen out in a small boat have been white.
The same goes for simple car camping, but that is beginning to change with a broadening middle class. I am seeing increasing numbers of black, Asian and Indian families out camping. Conversations with Ranger staff reflect this trend as well.
Friends who guide paddle trips tell me much the same. Where their clientele was nearly 100% white 20 years ago foreign visitors and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] generation immigrants are becoming an increasing part of their business.
That I think is a melting pot good thing. There are cultural practices and leave-no-trace issues to deal with among folks without a family camping heritage (ask a Ranger), but it’s a big world or forest and stream out there, and I welcome anyone into the fold willing to enjoy it and help me protect it.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2015
- Messages
- 114
- Reaction score
- 1
I'm sure some of us will take those canoes off your hands... They might be a tool of genocide, but they paddle so well.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2016
- Messages
- 515
- Reaction score
- 105
Not looking for a haven!!! I am well aware of the various indignity and mistreatment that "whites" inflicted on Native Americans even into the mid 20th century (Kinzua ring any bells?) State of New York is still trying to shaft the Senecas (as well as other tribes across the state). I'm cheering for the Indians, I live 20 minutes from the SNI Cattauragus Reservation and spend a lot of time there. Most are good people, but as with every other race or ethnicity, there are some jerks.
A look at my family portrait will dispel any thoughts about my personal bigotry.
There's only one problem with her entire premise; canoes can be found all over the world, like the papyrus canoe found in Egypt, to the dugouts and bark canoes of Australia and South America and bark canoes in India, and even wood plank canoes in Vietnam!
Even the word "canoe" comes from the Spanish word " canoa" which was adopted by the French as "canot"
Even the word "canoe" comes from the Spanish word " canoa" which was adopted by the French as "canot"
I'm not going to spend any time reading further through Dr. Dean's material (although the discussion here is timeworthy and hopefully carries on) for the simple fact that it doesn't pass the sniff test.... subjective value judgement for sure, but the first sniff tells me there are better things to spend time on, such as today's press release from the World Wildlife Fund that wildlife populations and biodiversity around the globe continue to decline, with a 60% drop since 1970.
If the long-term, bigger-picture impacts of canoeing must be judged, what are the net gains and the net losses... there may be losses that have occurred in the past as a result of whites paddling canoes, OTOH surely there are gains. The gains I'm thinking of relate to protection and conservation of natural areas which First Nations today no doubt have an interest in protecting, and how wilderness canoeists along with others have been active in conservation initiatives. What's the more critical issue needing attention... does canoeing in wilderness areas really undermine the well-being of FN that much or does wilderness canoeing help to protect natural areas interests that are shared by both?
Speaking of sniff tests... here's a 2016 Ig Nobel presentation made at MIT on detection of pseudo-profound bullpucky... humorous and the Ig Nobel awards acknowledge that there may well be benefits to weird research but the humor comes first (with a Carl Sagan, may he RIP, reference on how to detect baloney).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35RDFLaBWNY
If the long-term, bigger-picture impacts of canoeing must be judged, what are the net gains and the net losses... there may be losses that have occurred in the past as a result of whites paddling canoes, OTOH surely there are gains. The gains I'm thinking of relate to protection and conservation of natural areas which First Nations today no doubt have an interest in protecting, and how wilderness canoeists along with others have been active in conservation initiatives. What's the more critical issue needing attention... does canoeing in wilderness areas really undermine the well-being of FN that much or does wilderness canoeing help to protect natural areas interests that are shared by both?
Speaking of sniff tests... here's a 2016 Ig Nobel presentation made at MIT on detection of pseudo-profound bullpucky... humorous and the Ig Nobel awards acknowledge that there may well be benefits to weird research but the humor comes first (with a Carl Sagan, may he RIP, reference on how to detect baloney).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35RDFLaBWNY
Must view during this election season!
I'm not sure (probably because I am lacking in intellect), but I think I was being bullshitted their.
Similar threads
