Thoughts on a Mission Statement for Canoetripping.net

[Boreal Birch]

What happened to the header?
Since Doug went on a short vacation last summer this site has been an a down hill spiral with only problems, a nasty legalise mishmash on the Terms and Conditions of use of the website, stickies and now a mission statment. Why all the fixing when we really never needed a fix. I really miss the old forum, and Robin and Doug. Not being able to log on has made me give up on the site. So instead of looking at the site first thing in the morning, I check in every few weeks to see how tight the downward spiral has become.
I used to feel like we were all in this together, now I feel like there is no we anymore.

 

[Alan Gage]

I seem to have taken Dave's question and proposed mission statement differently than many others.

I took it that the mission statement was more for his personal use as site admin to figure out what we are, where we are, and where we want to go. The mission statement he gave seems to sum up well what we are now.

So, is this where we want to be? Does anyone want it to include more or less?

Does continuing on this path get us where we want to go?

And where do we even want to go?

I honestly don't know and hesitate to give a lot of input because I've lost a lot of interest in the canoe tripping over the last couple years, which has nothing to do with the forum, just hobbies ebbing and flowing.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

I'll agree with what others have said in this post as well as previous posts that the content of the forums do seem to be diminished over the last couple years. It's the same thing that seems to happen to nearly every internet forum in existence over time except for the ones that have gone big and commercial.

When I first found this site Robin had just taken over. It seemed like at that time the site was just starting to hit its stride with quite a few new members showing up. Everything seemed new then. We were all getting to know each other. Each post brought out all kinds of different viewpoints and opinions. We all learned lots of new tricks and techniques. A lot of the members seemed to be migrating from other sites and felt like they found a home here.

There was a flood of canoe builders and there were constant build threads. I was one of them and we all seemed to be very excited and energetic about finding a group of like minded people. I don't know if there's ever been a site that could top what was going on then in the building community.

Over time the rise in new members seemed to taper off but good times were still being had by the active members and we were still getting new recruits with much to offer.

Along the way familiar names started to disappear. Why I don't know. I can only assume some moved on to other interests and some probably died. As far as I know none of them left to frequent another forum dedicated to canoe tripping.

There are still a lot of old members around here and many of them seem to grieve the loss of the glory days of this forum, and for good reason, it was a special time. Is there any way to bring those days back? I don't think so. So much has been said and discussed that we all pretty much know what everyone else thinks and does. I would guess that most of us old members have little desire to talk about choosing the right paddle, axe, tent, knife, canoe, etc.

Most of the builders seem to have overdosed as well.

Now we seem to be at a point where most of the senior members are silent so the forum starts to go quiet. New members show up and ask the same questions we were asking 5 years ago and they don't get much response. Why? Because we're tired of talking about it. To us it's old news. What more can be added to the topic? How could it top the discussions we remember? So we either keep quiet, give a short response, or chide them for asking the same questions we were asking 5 years ago. And as a result the magic is gone.

If we wonder why the content isn't what it used to be all we have to do is look in the mirror? What do we still contribute? Am I the only one who sees a lack of forum posts and racks their brain trying to think of an interesting topic to bring up, but can't? Am I the only one who sees an old question asked by a new member, rolls their eyes, and keeps scrolling?

What's to keep new people coming back to this site when the majority of members seem to have lost their enthusiasm? I have no idea.

There is not a large pool of canoe trippers out there to pull from, especially when internet forums overall seem to be on the decline. Hopefully a new wave will emerge and we can graciously step back and let them in and the forum can go back to its glory days again. But the future glory days will not be the same as the former glory days. That's not to say they'll be worse, only that they'll be different. Nothing ever stays the same and that's a good thing.

Personally I feel if this site is to succeed it will be mainly due to the new generation with a little tolerance and wisdom added from the old timers.

Alan

 

[dougd]

I have hesitated to say anything but will jump into the fray. As a past Admin I didn't see a need for a mission statement because we who make the board what it is know what it is all about and yes the board is because of all of us. Yes, there have been some "disagreements" about what makes a defining thread/post...building a kayak vs keeping it all canoe but those conflicts could be handled internally.

Since Robin rescued this site from going dark and taking it to new levels it has been about canoeing, building, sharing are collective thoughts and experiences regardless if there was a fork up along the way, well the only happens to others not me! During my time as Admin I spent many hours on one priority and that was finding an IT guy that knew VBullentin and after many hours I did and he is still with us and DaveO is doing a great job keeping him in our corner.

But DaveO is Admin and owns the board and if the need for a mission statement is a in the mix then so it is. As I said we as a community for years have pretty much through all of our posts and sharing our experiences have monitored our own way without stomping on each others feet too many times, far fewer then other canoeing websites where the Admins have had to set up a separate section for "squabbling". This site is unique in that we all have a common respect for each other regardless of the fact many of us have never met nor ever will but we know each other. It's this common bond that makes CanoeTripping what it is. We don't need to make a meet a greet although that is a great thing to have happen but if it doesn't we are still brother and sister's with one defining goal, helping each other out with a new rebuild, build, question.... you get it.

With that said I will say to DaveO thank you for taking the board over, your efforts, your time, your direction is invaluable and for those who have never been in the seat of running a board of rogue canoerists , well all I can say is with only one (1) new kitten in the abode creating minutely havoc running a board is like taking it up to X 10000!

dougd

 

[PaddlingPitt]

I was not going to post to this thread, but thought I would add my two cents, Canadian, which is not worth very much, having been taken out of circulation several years ago. My original participation on a canoe tripping site was with myccr. I posted a few times, but posting complete trip reports, with images and text, seemed complicated. So I never did. I just happened to stumble across canoetripping.net, and was impressed with how respectful and helpful people were. I also found it very straightforward to post trip reports, with images and texts. I very much appreciated the many compliments and “likes” that I received. They were very rewarding. Thanks a bunch!

But I have no more trip reports. It seems that most other people don’t either. Most of the threads are about gear or canoe building. I occasionally log in to see who’s on line, and what they are viewing. Virtually all people, including members and guests, are viewing gear and canoe building. I have no interest or skills in DIY, and most “veteran” posters here have much more knowledge than I do about canoe models and gear. So I really have nothing to add. Moreover, I will not be changing canoes or gear at this point in my life. My favourite canoe is still a Royalex Mad River Explorer (although I am stuck with the similar Wenonah Prospector), and my favourite paddle continues to be a Grey Owl straight shaft, cherry-wood otter tail paddle. This equipment has brought me much pleasure over the last few decades, and I see no reason to change.

I still look at the site daily, mostly out of habit. But I fear that I will slowly drift away. As Bob Hope used to sing in his signature sign-off song, “Thanks For The Memories.”

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

So we've moved from writing site mission statements to site epitaphs.

Peachy.

Reminds me of why I always chose to go canoeing instead of to business meetings.

Random observations:

- There aren't as many new trip reports as there used to be because a significant portion of the membership here has aged to the point of diminished tripping. Same with boat building.

- Readers like photos. Many of the older folks' trips were decades ago and their photos are on film or slides, or stuck on hard drives of old computers, or none were ever taken.

- New members are always going to ask the same questions: what boat, what paddle, what saw, etc. It is incumbent upon experienced members to answer these questions -- yes, repetitively, year after year -- or the new members won't stay. It's what grows and keeps a forum alive with new blood. Indeed, it's what helps keep the sport alive!

 

[memaquay]

Yes, the lack of trip reports is the big thing for me. I am guilty too, as I haven't done a substantial trip for a few years. There have been some epic reports though! Alan Gage, Paddlin Pitt, those were the best reports I have ever read. People are moving to extensive video reports now, which I am not a fan of, and Facebook has a paddling group for just about everyone. I don't want to give up on Canoetripping yet, and I'm going to aim for a couple of reports this summer.

 

[DaveO]

Many thanks for the responses in this thread, and for the private messages and emails.

Every one of them is thoughtful, honest, articulate, and respectful. This is the quality of participation that makes this forum exceptional.

I have little practical experience with missions statements, so using it as a vehicle for discussion may have been somewhat clumsy. It is, however generating discussion along the lines that I had hoped for.

I am taking time to think about it some more, and then will provide further input.

Again, thank you.

 

[Cruiser]

I wasn't going to post here as i really don't like posting to threads like this, as Glenn said .... business meetings, but they are inevitable at some point, so a few observations and a couple of points.

- trip reports ... not sure about the US, but we have been locked down for quite some time ... but that is changing now
... just making it known that trip reports are appreciated and desired here will generate more of them, but they don't happen overnight

- Photos ... I suspect the photo of the day thread is the longest and is used several times every week ... so even in a pandemic new stuff is being posted

This is a pretty diverse group spanning far north to far south and even some from "off continent" and it shows in the variety of posts and interests. Equipment, camping gear and techniques all change as you move from Alaska to Florida and that all gets shared here. Posts change as we move through the camping season, building season and new gear season, some of us buy, some build and some refurbish, but again all that sort of stuff gets shared (at least some gets shared).

Not all posts are of interest to all people, that is just nature of the "hobby" ... we all start from a base of camping and specifically with a canoe, from there we diverge quickly based on skill, experience, locale, season and interests. Post what you have knowing it may be of interest to only a few folks, but appreciated by many ...

IMO the real strength in this site is the shear depth of knowledge the collective members represent, how easily it is shared and the mutual respect that is given in the forum. This is wholly absent in most of the others sites on the subject. There are a lot of folks out there that want this site, they just don't know it yet ... compared tot his site FB is a wasteland of bad info with a few dots of green here and there

As far as the original question about a Mission Statement ... I believe that begs a second question and that would be the purpose of the mission statement. I think documenting things like how we expect folks to behave, how you become a member, how the site is maintained, generally what we want for topics are all likely reasonable things to write down. The hobby is evolving and anything that limits the site from changing with the hobby is not going to be beneficial. So as long as a Mission Statement doesn't limit the evolution of the site, while providing the guidance of who we are is going to be a positive.

 

[alsg]

This has gotten a bit too serious for me. Some seem to want to write an obituary for the site rather than a mission statement. So here is my semi-satirical mission statement written in the style of Hollywood movie teaser:

In a world awash in kayakers...one group of intrepid canoeists (plus one guy named Mike who plainly paddled kayaks but insisted on calling them "decked canoes") dared to band together to establish the greatest repository of on-line information ever gathered and dedicated exclusively to all things related to canoes (and those aforementioned "decked canoes"), thereby guaranteeing the survival of the J-stroke for future generations.... Canoetripping.net!

Rated G for G-flex.​

 

[Guest]

A mission statement sounds vaguely ominous. Maybe familiar.

Your mission, paddlers, should you decide to accept it, is to share information in a helpful and kindhearted manner. As always, should you or any of your paddler contingent be caught capsizing, using a double blade, drag portaging your canoe or mentioning kayaks we will disavow any knowledge of your actions.

This warning will self-destruct like a UL canoe pinned gunwales upstream. Good luck, paddlers.

 

[Guest]

IMO the real strength in this site is the shear depth of knowledge the collective members represent, how easily it is shared and the mutual respect that is given in the forum. This is wholly absent in most of the others sites on the subject.

Cruiser, thanks, that expresses my thoughts and appreciations exactly.

It took me a while to read all of the responses. I am sorry folks are folks are writing Canoe Tripping’s epitaph, but the sad fact is paddling sites do come and go, and most eventually jump the shark. If there is a bell curve to that lifespan I think CT may still on the upslope; some recent arrivals have quickly proven of the spirit.

I posted a link to this Life Cycle of Internet Forums essay before. A long and belabored comparison to a series of Thomas Cole paintings, but spot-on familiar from paddling boards come and gone, or now a mere shadow of their former self. A worthwhile read, if only for “end stage” behaviors to beware.

https://vjmpublishing.nz/?p=1316

I hope we are still in the Consummation of Empire stage, and not yet fighting off Vandals and Goths

Historically, had Robin not stepped in, there would be no Canoe Tripping, the site itself his predecessor admin’s clone of the Solo Tripping board when that site went down. Had DougD not stepped in there would be no Canoe Tripping. Had DaveO not stepped in there would be no Canoe Tripping.

The burden of unpaid Admin duties, responding to user issues and IT coordination may well be something no one wants to carry forever. The line for volunteers forms on the left.

Back to the topic at hand, if there is a Mission Statement that (discrete) history and how-we-got-here-today might be included.

 

[stripperguy]

I had no idea the addition of a mission statement could be a harbinger of internet death!

I have certainly not been posting very often...I am nearly finished with the new house. It has consumed me and MDB for the last couple years, we have hardly been out paddling.
I have but a few tasks left on the house build (been moved in for 3 months almost) and when I do finish up I plan a full composite build.

Yes, I'll run a thread on it...

 

[DaveO]

When I became the Admin, I thought my anonymity, and broad range of canoeing interests, might be a good thing. I have no allegiances or specialties that, consciously or not, might unduly influence my decisions in steering the board.

I’ve been with the board from the beginning. I well recall one morning, reading Willis’s last post soon after he posted it, and wondering what it was about.

Robin took over, and did a terrific job. I’ve enjoyed Robin’s reports of tripping with a traditional style, including wood and canvas canoes that he restored. I always wanted to copy his modified short-walled hot tent.

Doug did a terrific job in succeeding Robin. I know from Doug’s posts that he is an experienced tripper, and likes to repair canoes made with more modern materials.

Robin and Doug are evidently well known to the paddling community.

I have an enthusiasm for canoes and canoe tripping.

[deleted]

This board is called “canoetripping.” So, if we sense a decline in trip reports, it is uncomfortable. We might quite naturally question whether the board is straying from its mission
.
I suspect that any recent decline in trip reports may be due in large part to covid restrictions on travel. At any rate, the essential mission of this board will not change: To enjoy and promote canoe tripping, and things that support tripping, such as training and preparation.

So, now you know a little better where I am coming from.

My follow up posts will address some of the more pressing and practical issues concerning the board.

 

[pblanc]

I think the first order of business would be to insure that this website actually functions properly, which it does not. A good example is the fact that I cannot access the second or third page of this post. Although I can now post responses and send PMs, every time I open this message board I get an error message that the rich text editor could not be loaded. There have been a number of other glitches over the years. A certain degree of frustration is unavoidable in life but honestly, this message board in its current form is providing more frustration than I care to deal with.

 

[TrailBlaser]

Personally, I have not posted trip reports because I have been unable to make postings from my computer. Putting a trip report together from my phone is a nearly impossible task. Now I seem to be able to post from the computer, although after hitting Post Reply on the last one I made, I did get an code on the resulting page that is probably not what the normal result should be. That being said, at least my post went up. This last fall and this year I have not been restricted from taking trips by Covid. My trips are to the Adirondacks and travel there has been open. I have taken fewer trips than I would like, but that is due to life circumstances other than Covid. I just got back from a five day trip and now that the site is working for me, I will be getting the trip report together and posted.

 

[TrailBlaser]

This is the code I am getting after hitting Post Reply: {"nodeId":126549} Also, I am unable to edit my posts, so at present they are a one-shot deal.

 

[Oldtyme]

I didn't even read what was posted or any of the replies but I'm so glad the site is back (for me anyways.....I could not login at the last site)
Everyone here was so nice helping a first time canoer (canoey? lol)
I have 3 years in now (well 2...thanks Rona), two nice-to-me canoes & have been enjoying the summer on my little baby trips.
Maybe with a push from the group I will go on an over-nighter sometime next year.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I didn't even read what was posted or any of the replies but I'm so glad the site is back (for me anyways.....I could not login at the last site)
Everyone here was so nice helping a first time canoer (canoey? lol)
I have 3 years in now (well 2...thanks Rona), two nice-to-me canoes & have been enjoying the summer on my little baby trips.
Maybe with a push from the group I will go on an over-nighter sometime next year.

Welcome back!