Right?!Thank you! Very informative.
Dang it. I still need at leastthreefive solo canoes.
I wonder how the DF15 would handle 300-320# loads.
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Happy Birthday, Jack Kerouac (1922-69)! ✍🏻📖🛣️
The New Swift/DY Redesign of the Dragonfly
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
- Start date
I wonder how the DF15 would handle 300-320# loads.
Is the far left plug in the photo the aforementioned Prospector 15 solo? Is that just like the combi version with the bow/stern seats removed, or is it a new, narrower design?
Also, I’m assuming the rounder bottom of the dragonfly was mellowed out some into more of a standard Yost shallow arch for the DF 15 based on your comments about the stability, would you say that’s accurate?
The P15solo is a new solo. Prolly 32”(ish) wide, easy to do cross strokes. Flatter bottom, very stable. Gear hauler and good fishing platform prolly. Reminded me of a mellowed out StarFire (I’d like to see that boat come back into production).
DF 15 lost the rounded bottom. Really amazing how stable it is without loosing the playfulness. I’d love to try it loaded on some moving water.
The DF15 is sounding more and more like my RockSTAR. I find the RockSTAR plenty playful, however I have yet to paddle it loaded. It's quick to heel which I enjoy, and locks up once you get on the shoulder.
I think the real comparison / competition in this category is between DF15, RockSTAR, and SRT (which is amazing), plus perhaps Supernova (but it has symmetrical rocker). Also Wilderness to a certain extent, but it doesn't have the rocker of the others - it does however have the advantage of being available in T-Formex. To an ever lesser extent I would also add Phoenix because it can be had in IXP, but it's got less freeboard than all the rest...
I paddled a StarFIRE this summer for a couple of weeks and sadly found it very underwhelming. It was particularly depressing to me as I LOVE LOVE LOVE the WildFIRE and I have a FlashFIRE - but the StarFIRE, while very stable in rapids, felt to me more like paddling a prospector - it was hard to get it on edge. I was paddling it heavily loaded - and the boat had been beat to Hades and back - so perhaps that was part of the issue. But it did not entice me as does its smaller siblings..
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Well BurkeJ I enjoyed your review of the DF15, especially your comments around playfulness...and the high bow volume characteristic that I think it shares with SRT and DF.
I inherited a Kee15 and while it's not my favorite boat my respect for it just keeps growing. I think it would stand up pretty well to the others on a long lake cruise or in high wind yet it's surprisingly capable on rivers, I can still dodge trees on small rivers, and it can be freestyled on ponds much more enjoyably than other lake boats that I've paddled. I think the Yost magic is the broad performance envelope.
I just picked up a used Starfire set up solo. I love Starfire. Interesting to hear you call DF15 a mellow Starfire...Starfire already seems incredibly mellow( to me) as a solo.
Given your preferences I'd bet you a dollar that you'd like a Swift Osprey. Based on your description of DF15, Osprey is like a smaller version with tons of playfulness but not as much primary stability and no extra bow volume to keep you dry going downstream or to aggravate me going upstream.
I inherited a Kee15 and while it's not my favorite boat my respect for it just keeps growing. I think it would stand up pretty well to the others on a long lake cruise or in high wind yet it's surprisingly capable on rivers, I can still dodge trees on small rivers, and it can be freestyled on ponds much more enjoyably than other lake boats that I've paddled. I think the Yost magic is the broad performance envelope.
I just picked up a used Starfire set up solo. I love Starfire. Interesting to hear you call DF15 a mellow Starfire...Starfire already seems incredibly mellow( to me) as a solo.
Given your preferences I'd bet you a dollar that you'd like a Swift Osprey. Based on your description of DF15, Osprey is like a smaller version with tons of playfulness but not as much primary stability and no extra bow volume to keep you dry going downstream or to aggravate me going upstream.
I was referring to the plug of the P15 solo as mellow, not the Dragonfly 15….Well BurkeJ I enjoyed your review of the DF15, especially your comments around playfulness...and the high bow volume characteristic that I think it shares with SRT and DF.
I inherited a Kee15 and while it's not my favorite boat my respect for it just keeps growing. I think it would stand up pretty well to the others on a long lake cruise or in high wind yet it's surprisingly capable on rivers, I can still dodge trees on small rivers, and it can be freestyled on ponds much more enjoyably than other lake boats that I've paddled. I think the Yost magic is the broad performance envelope.
I just picked up a used Starfire set up solo. I love Starfire. Interesting to hear you call DF15 a mellow Starfire...Starfire already seems incredibly mellow( to me) as a solo.
Given your preferences I'd bet you a dollar that you'd like a Swift Osprey. Based on your description of DF15, Osprey is like a smaller version with tons of playfulness but not as much primary stability and no extra bow volume to keep you dry going downstream or to aggravate me going upstream.
The DF15 checks all the boxes for an extended river tripper. Retains its maneuverability.
(P15 solo seems like a load hauler, fishing platform)
The Kee is definitely a lake tripper. Lower sides won’t catch wind like the DF’s and tracks straight. Faster than either DF with better glide (bow doesn’t push back).
Just an FYI you SRT fans... Hemlock Canoe should have their version of IXP out sometime this year!
That is very interesting news.
Just wanted to add to this thread some info from Canoecopia:
-The P15 solo will probably not be launched until next year per Swift.
-Jeremy Vore is right in the Swift video when he says the marketing media doesn’t capture the subtle flare carried into the bow of the DF15. In person it looks like it will have an advantage in staying on top of waves and deflecting water/staying drier vs. some of its competitors. This was pretty clear especially when comparing the DF15 and the Phoenix, etc., back to back. Per Jeremy in class II there’s probably not a huge difference, but getting into II+ the DF15 seems like it will be drier, especially with a load, and he plans to find out... (To be clear he spoke very highly of both boats and will be keeping both so was not knocking the Phoenix at all just stating a small expected difference).
-I have seen the comments somewhere on this forum (maybe this thread?) discussing the fact that Swift uses a foam core and ribs, while other “hard use” layups go without them in favor of more layers of cloth (like IXP for example). I did not know however that the foam for core/ribs used by Swift is different than the foam cores used by other mfg.’s (Northstar’s starlight, Wenonah, etc). Apparently the foam used by Swift is a much higher density foam and the mat is much much thinner and (according to them) much tougher and less prone to compression damage and cracking from impacts/denting/etc. This is why they are confident it can compete with full cloth layups for “expeditions” encountering white water (read “not the same as white water play boating”). Maybe this is common knowledge but I had not read it or seen it anywhere before and I feel like I’ve done a fair bit of research on Expedition Kevlar vs the likes of IXP, Tuf Stuff Expedition, etc. If that’s the case I’m not sure why they don’t talk it up more. Anyway, maybe this will be of interest to someone else doing that same research.
P.S. Robert Patch’s blue forged carbon DF 15 and Vore’s ruby IXP Phoenix and cherry trimmed DF15 all looked fantastic to me.
-The P15 solo will probably not be launched until next year per Swift.
-Jeremy Vore is right in the Swift video when he says the marketing media doesn’t capture the subtle flare carried into the bow of the DF15. In person it looks like it will have an advantage in staying on top of waves and deflecting water/staying drier vs. some of its competitors. This was pretty clear especially when comparing the DF15 and the Phoenix, etc., back to back. Per Jeremy in class II there’s probably not a huge difference, but getting into II+ the DF15 seems like it will be drier, especially with a load, and he plans to find out... (To be clear he spoke very highly of both boats and will be keeping both so was not knocking the Phoenix at all just stating a small expected difference).
-I have seen the comments somewhere on this forum (maybe this thread?) discussing the fact that Swift uses a foam core and ribs, while other “hard use” layups go without them in favor of more layers of cloth (like IXP for example). I did not know however that the foam for core/ribs used by Swift is different than the foam cores used by other mfg.’s (Northstar’s starlight, Wenonah, etc). Apparently the foam used by Swift is a much higher density foam and the mat is much much thinner and (according to them) much tougher and less prone to compression damage and cracking from impacts/denting/etc. This is why they are confident it can compete with full cloth layups for “expeditions” encountering white water (read “not the same as white water play boating”). Maybe this is common knowledge but I had not read it or seen it anywhere before and I feel like I’ve done a fair bit of research on Expedition Kevlar vs the likes of IXP, Tuf Stuff Expedition, etc. If that’s the case I’m not sure why they don’t talk it up more. Anyway, maybe this will be of interest to someone else doing that same research.
P.S. Robert Patch’s blue forged carbon DF 15 and Vore’s ruby IXP Phoenix and cherry trimmed DF15 all looked fantastic to me.
Hi Glenn.
Thanks for putting together the comparison. It's clear to see that the new Dragonfly has been changed so much that they should also have given it a new name. They seem to have a knack for reusing other models names though. Why this is I don't know but there can't be any good explanation for it.
Besides that, it seems like boats in general are getting bigger than they were back in the hay days.
In this case they have beefed up the canoe so that it is 2" wider than the original at the waterline. That's a big difference.
2.5" wider at the gunwales is also a significant change.
4" higher in the bow... It's a different canoe!
Come on Swift... Do you need help with names? Call me! lol
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Hi Glenn.
Thanks for putting together the comparison. It's clear to see that the new Dragonfly has been changed so much that they should also have change the name. They seem to have a knack for reusing other canoe model names though. Why this is I don't know but there can't be a good explanation for it.
Besides that, it seems like boats in general are getting bigger than they were back in the hay days.
In this case they have beefed up the canoe so that it is 2" wider than the original at the waterline. That's a big difference.
2.5" wider at the gunwales is also a significant change.
4" higher in the bow... It's a different canoe!
Come on Swift... Do you need help with names? Call me
They referred to it as the Dragonfly XL initially. I lobbied for SuperFly. It would have a theme song and everything.
Seriously though, I think of it as more of a larger, drier and more responsive Phoenix.
Robert
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I honestly think that SuperFly would have been a better name for it. Or SpanishFly..
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I don't know. Tse tse just doesn't "set" right for some reason...
Just dropping a pic in here. It was a fine looking craft, indeed. Still too small for me, but there was hint about a larger tripping boat coming later this year. Sounded like another upsize of the "Dragonfly" , but might have referred to the prospector 15. In any case, I was bummed that the D15 is too small for my tripping load, but excited Swift is still looking at producing a big solo.
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That sounds small... Maybe for a ww playboat?
It's probably just me, but those Swift canoes are about the ugliest things I've seen. I know they can still make regular solid colors, but what's up with the burlap bag, woven plastic chair look and primer gray? To each his own.
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