Some Experienced Thoughts, Please?

[yellowcanoe]

The boat changes direction with static strokes. Blade angle causes anchoring or carving of the bow ( or stern going backwards). Some of the turns are anchored turns and others that turn away from the bow paddlers side are carved turns (when the paddle is on the same side of the boat as the heel). Wetted surface plays no role. Its all about underwater hull shape. Outside heeled turns carve as the curvier surface is exposed to oncoming water. The upside of the boat has much less curved shape at the waterline..its almost straight. The underwater hull resembles the shape of an airfoil.

Its far better to take lessons.Videos can show you what you might ought to do. They do not give you feedback on what you are actually doing. Frequently there is an abyss between the two.

More stuff; you might enjoy reading the CrossPost online

http://www.freestylecanoeing.com/Crosspost/crosspost.html

 

[yknpdlr]

Bow paddlers are closer to the pivot point than the stern paddler. Hence they cannot initiate a turn. Turns initiate with stern skids. However once the turn is started the bow paddler influences entirely how sharp that turn will be. The stern paddler can stop paddling and put the paddle in their lap.

I've been a voyageur canoe paddle racer for years. I love twisty rivers paddled at speed (I also like them at a more leisurely pace when not in race mode). To be successful the bow and stern paddler have to silently work together (verbal communication can be difficult with a 30 foot separation), and to anticipate each other's intent and move. On relatively straight sections of the river, my stern paddler sets me up for the next turn by putting the boat on a correct initial line and the correct distance from shore to enter the turn. Since I have a better view of what is up ahead, sometimes I make small quick corrections from the bow.

I will signal to the crew when I want to begin a turn with an initial partial draw stroke, with next following strokes drawing with enough angle and power to ease us into the arc of the turn line. Meanwhile the stern is drawing and/or sweeping on the opposite side while the mid-paddlers maintain power. I really like to be able to judge speed with the required turn radius and river width to make the most efficient turn possible. When I and my stern are in the tight groove such that a single missed stroke would have jammed us into the shore, we have done our job. Even better is so doing sequences of turn after turn only a few boat lengths apart. Two and a half miles of that on narrow winding Brown's Tract on the Adirondack 90-miler is my favorite section of the entire race.

 

[Guest]

There are really only 5 basic canoe strokes: forward, sweep, draw, pry and backward, the others being combinations or variations of these, e.g., the J is a combination forward/pry, the C is a combination draw/ forward/pry. Read up, watch a few videos, get on the water and have fun with it. Do wear your pfd, practice self-rescue techniques and basic paddling on shallow flat water. You will enjoy the Nova Craft, go for it!

 

[yellowcanoe]

There are three things you do with your paddle. Push against the water or pull against the water or slice with neutral pressure. Static stroke or active stroke doesn't matter.

 

[Guest]

Great points all! I guess it all depends upon where we learned or who we learned from. The point that I was trying to make is that there are really only a few basic strokes and that sometimes beginning paddlers can become quite overwhelmed and confused when confronted with "advanced" techniques. Bottom line: Get out there on the water and enjoy the experience!

 

[Guest]

Hey Wolfie,

I go with MO. It's a staggering amt of info to master. The oft repeated advice is best: paddle as much as you can and go to some gatherings.

It takes years. Great fun along the way.

YC,
Your 3/27/13 post here is the best ans I have seen about the relative roles of bow and stern. I had questions in my "The bow station" thread.

My streams tend to WW and the rest of the year to boney.

 

[yellowcanoe]

It's all about stick in the water time. Take the bites slowly.

I always shake my head at FreeStyle Symposia when people want to fill three days full of classes. Your mind need time to assimilate info, and will get a literal brain cramp if overloaded!
PS. That's when I have seen the most capsizes. Sunday AM at 11 there is bound to be a swimmer or two.

 

[yellowcanoe]

My ex-wife had the best approach of all: she thought of the paddle as an extension of her hand. She had no trouble visualizing strokes, and needed only a little practice to do most of them effectively.

Good point. I often start people with sticks as in tree branches or dowels for them to feel pushes and pulls. They are surprised to find the boat really does respond to a what essentially is a curtain rod.

Pat Moore long ago illustrated strokes with a snow shovel.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I have heard of it from friends but not seen it. Do you have a source for a video? The demo is often cited by people at FreeStyle symposia when faced with questions about the "correct boat".

 

[Guest]

A lot of great advice already, and the one thing I would add is buy a good paddle. No doubt great paddlers can move a canoe with about anything (see story above), but learning and getting the feel for strokes is easier with a quality paddle.

 

[yellowcanoe]

A lot of great advice already, and the one thing I would add is buy a good paddle. No doubt great paddlers can move a canoe with about anything (see story above), but learning and getting the feel for strokes is easier with a quality paddle.

That is quite true in my experience. But a five hundred dollar paddle does not paddle ten times better than a fifty dollar paddle. Somewhere in the midpoint there is an intersection of performance vs cost. IMO when buying a boat and paddle leave $200 in the budget for a decent paddle and don't regard that paddle as an afterthought. And don't EVER be swayed by others preferences. Canoeing with a paddle is not unlike playing with a guitar. It has to feel good and be balanced for you.

 

[yknpdlr]

I believe that a good paddle can make even a bad canoe a pleasure to paddle. But conversely a bad paddle won't do much for a good boat. As YC says, you should be able to get a really good paddle for $200 or slightly less.

I've paddled and taught paddling in some really awful and contorted canoes at various Boy Scout camps. But with decent technique, one can always make those tubs at least behave like a canoe with a good paddle (although good paddles are rarely found at scout camps). However, I don't show up brandishing my shiny sleek paddles while the students are stuck with the junky ones. I'll leave it in the background for a while. Me using my own paddle doesn't do anything initially for training them to be trek guides for younger scouts. So I will instruct with me and them using whatever is available at the camp. Often aluminum/plastic Mohawk paddles, sometimes thick blade beat up wood paddles that are not much better than 5 pound clubs. Only after they get the idea how basic stroke paddling is done with what they have do I then show what a real paddle can do and let them borrow a couple to see the difference in effort to do the same strokes they have learned, and more, than when using the camp paddles. Most times they can't afford a couple hundred bucks for a paddle of their own yet, but the seed has been planted.

A dear instructor (and fine paddle maker) friend of mine long ago told me something very meaningful that I never forgot. He said to really learn and enjoy paddling, you have to "get your head in the water". Not literally of course, but it means that once you become one and comfortable with your ability, your paddle, the canoe, and finally the ease of performance in the water, now you are a canoeist.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Inner gimbal..sometimes your head IS in the water..

 

[Guest]

A little late, perhaps

A little late, perhaps

As an owner and paddler of a Nova Craft prospector, both tandem and solo, I thought I'd add my two cents worth. As I recall the original question was about learning to paddle a Prospector, both solo and tandem.

When soloing, turn the boat around and sit backwards in the front seat - puts you closer to the middle. Add a bit of ballast in the new bow to trim the boat more or less level. If you want better control and trim install a kneeling thwart where the current aft thwart is.

It is easiest to learn how to paddle on calm water. Wind and waves will complicate things for you. To develop a good J-stroke, concentrate on keeping a tight course. And, that means you must be able to visualize that course. To do so pick out a distant object and continually head for it. When paddling solo, the forward part of the stroke will turn the bow off course away from the paddling side by a small number of degrees. The J correction at the end of the stroke should bring it back to the paddling side of the course line by an equal number of degrees - no more, no less. The boat should make only small swings right and left across the course line. When you fail to concentrate on the course, larger excursions will result and these, when noticed, will lead to larger corrections. The boat will follow a zigzag couse. When paddling tandem, the bow will tend to turn away from the side the stern paddler is paddling on. The stern paddlers job is the same as the solo paddlers, hold a tight course by applying just enough correction.

When learning, I think it is useful to take slow deliberate strokes, pay close attention to the effect, and do not pick up power or pace before you have the rhythm down. If you find youself needing to throw quick powerful strokes, you've lost control.

I could go on, but I won't. A picture is worth a thousand words and as others have said a lesson or two is worth even more. And, anyway, by now you've probably figured it all out.

The Prospector is a sweet boat. It is no accident that it has been in production for over 100 years. I think you'll enjoy it, I know I do.

Peter

 

[yellowcanoe]

pgeorg, your comments are very well said. The only thing I'd care to add is to borrow a training technique from whitewater paddlers. That is, paddling onside circles, which involves j-strokes that overcompensate for the deflection of the middle (propulsion) part of the forward stroke. The amount of j-stroke needed to go straight is less than required to paddle an onside circle, so if you can do the circle you can track the boat. There are some good pictures and descriptions of this in the McGuffins' book "Paddle Your Own Canoe."

Inside circles are a lot of work with a Prospector. Much easier in a dedicated solo.
why? Most people solo Prospectors with some onside heel. That presents an airfoil shape for sure but the curve of the hull is on the paddle side and accentuates a carve. You have to do a mighty J series to counteract that.

So the message is try to keep your Prospector flat on the water. With dedicated solos on flatwater we teach an slight outside heel to help the J correction as part of our series of exercises for students. The goal is to get the student to flatten the boat and maintain the circle.

With some boats whose stems break free easily the trick is to not get a concentric spiral. With the inside circle, when the stem breaks free you actually have to do lots of sweeps to break the spiral, and with lot of onside heel to try an get a carve going. Then you find its a balancing actof skids and shapes and forces!

 

[red langford]

YC, I have a Prospector and paddle it almost exclusively solo heeled over and I find that it handles dramatically different this way. It seems to me to be MORE responsive and correction strokes are slight not pronounced.

 

[yellowcanoe]

YC, I have a Prospector and paddle it almost exclusively solo heeled over and I find that it handles dramatically different this way. It seems to me to be MORE responsive and correction strokes are slight not pronounced.

I teach Canadian Style so I have a bit of job history in this and the hull shape when heeled so the paddler can get the blade in the water with a vertical shaft is presenting a round shape to the water and a flat shape on the non paddle side. Ergo the hull all by itself wants to veer to the non paddling side and the paddler has to overcome this to do an inside circle. Of course the inside circle CAN be done.. as well as pivots that way but it takes more oomph than the corresponding turn ( bow jam) to the offside. Heel does free the Prospector stems, and turns a sixteen or so foot craft (depending on your Prospector ) to about a ten foot long at the waterline craft. And those turn faster.

One of the advantages of an ottertail paddle is you can do a deep C under the boat and get the paddle path closer to the pivot point. The C shape helps overcome offside veer and paddle passing close to the pivot point minimizes the sidewheel effect of the path of the paddle..

Its all about hydrodynamics. None of it is my opinion.I have just read a bit of John Winters.