One can never have too many clamps.
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Happy Mathematics Day! ❌📐♾️
Red's Tremblay
- Thread starter Mihun09
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wow... a work of art
Mihun, Have you ever found that steaming the oak discolors it? Like when you handle it too much and it develops purple marks where your fingers were?
I can't recall ever having to steam bend oak in anything I have ever built, so am very curious about it?
As always, looks really nice
Momentum
I can't recall ever having to steam bend oak in anything I have ever built, so am very curious about it?
As always, looks really nice
Momentum
You should have saw it when I got it. It looked more like a piece of firewood.
Haven't had that issue with steaming or handling it yet. About the only thing is, if it burns during routing the burn marks are really tough to sand out, so I don't fight them since they add character. It Might bend without the steam or boiling water, but at the point I do it, I cannot risk it breaking. In this case, the outwales are 1 inch high, 5/8ths thick including the rabbet and these are not quite as thin as the originals.
Red:
Yes, this boat was pretty close to being a bonfire at the beginning, but anything can be saved, it is just a question of should it be saved. If the Morris we got from Robin weren't so darned rare, it would be a nice quick bonfire. White cedar burns really, really fast.
We only have one photo at the start, and that was even after Christine started to remove planking. When it is done I will post before and after.
Hopefully this will be the last fibreglassed canoe I ever take on again.
I have a few before's
We will need to arrange for you to e-mail those to me so I can put it all together.
~~
To think I could have worked overtime today instead of staying home. My bosses just don't understand me at all.
It was time consuming for sure and always second guessing... now that isn't working so how am I... yea, that will work... but I'm still a hacker.
If you can get past the size of it, 15 feet long but 37" wide outside the gunwales, I think it would make a good solo boat. Certainly it would hold a good load, moose maybe?
Getting closer to Red's first paddle...
Hardware...
So I buy a box of 100 silicon bronze wood screws and use 52! Seems to be how it works out. I've been getting my hardware of late from a place in Minnesota, they have good prices and what I want, which I cannot find in Canada at all. Silicon Bronze wood screws? Maybe Fastenal but at 3 times the cost and they ship from the USA anyway... scratches head on the price...
For the most part we no longer use brass at all since HD, Rona, CT and even Lee Valley, all their hardware is made in China and if you try it, you can watch the screw flex as you install it, even in a pre-drilled and tapped hole. It flexes just before it breaks flush with whatever we are installing, like a stem band. This time I ordered #4 brass wood screws from the place in MN with my other screws and a test in oak worked well, so I'm hoping it works out for the stem bands since they are brass and these are oval head slotted. That brings up another issue. Tremblay's were built in Canada and with it being a 70's boat it very likely had Robertson hardware in it, although the brass bolts holding in the thwarts are slotted. All the hardware I use tends to be slotted, like it came from 100 years ago. Just a nice touch I think.
Need to get a different flavour of stain for the outwales tomorrow, hoping to get something closer to the existing inwale colour, although they differ significantly side to side. Shrugs. So if all goes well, stain tomorrow, a coat of Epifanes, then Sunday I can get the second last colour coat on... (hopefully).
This would be easier if I didn't have to work at my stupid job.
So I buy a box of 100 silicon bronze wood screws and use 52! Seems to be how it works out. I've been getting my hardware of late from a place in Minnesota, they have good prices and what I want, which I cannot find in Canada at all. Silicon Bronze wood screws? Maybe Fastenal but at 3 times the cost and they ship from the USA anyway... scratches head on the price...
For the most part we no longer use brass at all since HD, Rona, CT and even Lee Valley, all their hardware is made in China and if you try it, you can watch the screw flex as you install it, even in a pre-drilled and tapped hole. It flexes just before it breaks flush with whatever we are installing, like a stem band. This time I ordered #4 brass wood screws from the place in MN with my other screws and a test in oak worked well, so I'm hoping it works out for the stem bands since they are brass and these are oval head slotted. That brings up another issue. Tremblay's were built in Canada and with it being a 70's boat it very likely had Robertson hardware in it, although the brass bolts holding in the thwarts are slotted. All the hardware I use tends to be slotted, like it came from 100 years ago. Just a nice touch I think.
Need to get a different flavour of stain for the outwales tomorrow, hoping to get something closer to the existing inwale colour, although they differ significantly side to side. Shrugs. So if all goes well, stain tomorrow, a coat of Epifanes, then Sunday I can get the second last colour coat on... (hopefully).
This would be easier if I didn't have to work at my stupid job.
Wife and I just had a big long conversation about giving work up and buying a camp (not Pakwash sorry) and turning it from a fishing camp for Americans (not a mark against Americans nor fishermen at all) to a youth canoe camp for both Americans and Canadians. I am looking at the model used successfully in the Temagami area. But sadly, money still makes this world turn and professional bushman will have to wait until another day. Going to watch Corb Lund tonight in Red Lake and all I can think abuts the sound that a cedar canvas canoes makes on the water as opposed to the loud Kevlar one makes.
Nicole Rauber had a 14 foot 38 wide tandem that she soloed at WCHA events. Her Dad had made it I think ( she may have..nothing was purchased from outside).. It had a name "Mine Floats Dad's Don't".
She soloed it Canadian Style . Nicole was a teen then.. there was a bit of sass.
You have to love how a wood canvas boat absorbs sounds that make kevlar shudder.
When you get that camp, and I know there are many for sale including one up in Nakina where Robin went in August, I'll come on by and teach you what I know so you can build and maintain your fleet of w/c canoes. Having been to both the sites for the canoe camps you mention, the one thing that strikes me is the cost, it is like only the rich kids can go to those camps since middle class parents would have a difficult time coming up with that kind of money for even a week's stay for their kids. The Voyageur level trips are like eight thousand plus per person.
How was the concert? I only know the one song he does, "The truck got stuck" and it is a catchy tune for sure. I'll have to look him up on youtube sometime.
When you get that camp, and I know there are many for sale including one up in Nakina where Robin went in August, I'll come on by and teach you what I know so you can build and maintain your fleet of w/c canoes. Having been to both the sites for the canoe camps you mention, the one thing that strikes me is the cost, it is like only the rich kids can go to those camps since middle class parents would have a difficult time coming up with that kind of money for even a week's stay for their kids. The Voyageur level trips are like eight thousand plus per person.
How was the concert? I only know the one song he does, "The truck got stuck" and it is a catchy tune for sure. I'll have to look him up on youtube sometime.
"Always keep an edge on your knife" is my favourite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8YyDyap7wI
I have a problem getting kids to pay 20 bucks to go on a 10 day trip. Think it's mostly American clientele of the wealthy kind who go on those Keewaydin type deals.
I have a problem getting kids to pay 20 bucks to go on a 10 day trip. Think it's mostly American clientele of the wealthy kind who go on those Keewaydin type deals.
I'll give you twenty bucks to take me on a ten day trip!
Well, we could work something out, if you guys come up this way again, won't even cost you 20 bucks, maybe a six pack of bud lite or something.
Concert was fantastic, bought two records...er sorry CD's but he did have a vinyl album for sale as well. He was a funny guy who likes to sing songs about Canada...and whiskey...I think he referred to one of the whiskey songs as a Canadian hymn when he tours in the states. Favourite song of the night was not even recorded yet. Lucky to have seen perform and met such a big deal Canadian Country Singer in a high school gymnasium. But we are straying.....$20 buck for a 10 day trip is a deal and a half.
This will be coming to a close soon... hopefully before Winter sets in.
Time is running short on this project. I need to get it done and in the water before the end of the month and I still have the problem of things needing to be done which require waiting time, so, I skipped ahead one step to save some time.
Normally stem bands would be last. I decided I could do them now, then remove them tomorrow for last coat of paint and re-install while the paint isn't fully dry since I won't have to tape them onto the hull again.
I get my stem band stock from Noah's in Toronto. The stuff is getting harder to find for this application since for w/c canoes it needs to have a concave back, not flat like you would use on a stripper. In most cases the stems have a ridge on them from the overlapping canvas so a flat strip won't sit properly, thus, the concave back.
These are 3/8" wide rounded brass strips, 4 feet long. They arrive well tarnished and Brasso just doesn't cut it alone for cleaning them up, so I started with a 280 grit wet/dry sandpaper then Brasso. Before I actually install them I will likely hit them with the Brasso again possibly using my Dremel to really get them to shine.
So, first we cut them to size, in this case I removed 2 inches from the length so they wouldn't go past the stem on the bottom of the boat.
The bend onto the decks is a bear to do, so I try to pre-bend to a degree and I can hammer the cr*p out of them to try to tighten the bend without having to bash them on the boat. For brass it really is hard to bend that tight. I worked out a way to ensure it was square and bent it across the front of the bench.
We happen to have an old anvil which worked wonderfully for not only beating the tar out of the bend but for center punching for the holes. Now, we cannot have the concave shape at the ends, so I beat them flat and round them off a bit, on the deck it is neater and on the bottom of the boat it is less likely to catch on an underwater object and rip the bands off. At this point I center punched them as well as it is much easier when they are flat.
Although I can mark where I want the holes, I cannot drill them until after bending the band on the hull or it will snap at each hole. So we then align it where we want it and slowly shape it to match the curve of the hull, if it allows me to do so. Tape it down as you go to manage it easier.
Once the shape is somewhat formed into the band, then it can be drilled. This would be much easier if I had a drill press, but I don't yet. So I make up a jig which has a curve in it and a flat, router a groove for the band and drill holes large enough for #4 screws then carefully do the countersink as well. This tends to be a little time consuming and fidgety. Patience is key here.
So we have holes and counter sinks, now all we need to do is put them back on the boat, drill clean holes through nice waterproof canvas and put in the screws.
I always go with a stainless steel screw first, to pre-tap the hole for the final brass screws. In this instance, since I will remove them and re-install, I just left them in for now, only adding one brass screw to see how it looks. I've had issues with brass screws in the past, being soft and had one break putting on a stem band, which is about the worst time for that to happen as the hole HAS to be where the screw broke. I bought screws from a different supplier this time and did a test in Red Oak prior to using them. I drilled a hole and ran a s/s screw in first as per usual, removed it and ran the brass screw in and well, not only did it not break, it didn't twist at all so we may have a winner here. These are #4 x 3/4" oval head slotted screws.
When I do the final install next week, I will caulk each screw hole before running the screw in to hopefully curtail any potential leaks.
Time is running short on this project. I need to get it done and in the water before the end of the month and I still have the problem of things needing to be done which require waiting time, so, I skipped ahead one step to save some time.
Normally stem bands would be last. I decided I could do them now, then remove them tomorrow for last coat of paint and re-install while the paint isn't fully dry since I won't have to tape them onto the hull again.
I get my stem band stock from Noah's in Toronto. The stuff is getting harder to find for this application since for w/c canoes it needs to have a concave back, not flat like you would use on a stripper. In most cases the stems have a ridge on them from the overlapping canvas so a flat strip won't sit properly, thus, the concave back.
These are 3/8" wide rounded brass strips, 4 feet long. They arrive well tarnished and Brasso just doesn't cut it alone for cleaning them up, so I started with a 280 grit wet/dry sandpaper then Brasso. Before I actually install them I will likely hit them with the Brasso again possibly using my Dremel to really get them to shine.
So, first we cut them to size, in this case I removed 2 inches from the length so they wouldn't go past the stem on the bottom of the boat.
The bend onto the decks is a bear to do, so I try to pre-bend to a degree and I can hammer the cr*p out of them to try to tighten the bend without having to bash them on the boat. For brass it really is hard to bend that tight. I worked out a way to ensure it was square and bent it across the front of the bench.
We happen to have an old anvil which worked wonderfully for not only beating the tar out of the bend but for center punching for the holes. Now, we cannot have the concave shape at the ends, so I beat them flat and round them off a bit, on the deck it is neater and on the bottom of the boat it is less likely to catch on an underwater object and rip the bands off. At this point I center punched them as well as it is much easier when they are flat.
Although I can mark where I want the holes, I cannot drill them until after bending the band on the hull or it will snap at each hole. So we then align it where we want it and slowly shape it to match the curve of the hull, if it allows me to do so. Tape it down as you go to manage it easier.
Once the shape is somewhat formed into the band, then it can be drilled. This would be much easier if I had a drill press, but I don't yet. So I make up a jig which has a curve in it and a flat, router a groove for the band and drill holes large enough for #4 screws then carefully do the countersink as well. This tends to be a little time consuming and fidgety. Patience is key here.
So we have holes and counter sinks, now all we need to do is put them back on the boat, drill clean holes through nice waterproof canvas and put in the screws.
I always go with a stainless steel screw first, to pre-tap the hole for the final brass screws. In this instance, since I will remove them and re-install, I just left them in for now, only adding one brass screw to see how it looks. I've had issues with brass screws in the past, being soft and had one break putting on a stem band, which is about the worst time for that to happen as the hole HAS to be where the screw broke. I bought screws from a different supplier this time and did a test in Red Oak prior to using them. I drilled a hole and ran a s/s screw in first as per usual, removed it and ran the brass screw in and well, not only did it not break, it didn't twist at all so we may have a winner here. These are #4 x 3/4" oval head slotted screws.
When I do the final install next week, I will caulk each screw hole before running the screw in to hopefully curtail any potential leaks.
Thanks for taking the time to post photos and give very, very detailed instructions. I'm still here reading each step and learning a lot with each one.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
I hate brass screws, they always break at the worst times. However...
Looks fantastic! Is that a wrap?
Have you ever tried waxing your screws before installation? I had some little screws that kept twisting off when going into oak. Grabbed one of those colored wax sticks I had laying around for filling nail holes and rubbed it on the threads before installing them. Made all the difference in the world.
Alan
EDIT: Never mind, I see you said you were going to caulk the holes before installing the screws. I'd think that would provide some good lubrication.
Have you ever tried waxing your screws before installation? I had some little screws that kept twisting off when going into oak. Grabbed one of those colored wax sticks I had laying around for filling nail holes and rubbed it on the threads before installing them. Made all the difference in the world.
Alan
EDIT: Never mind, I see you said you were going to caulk the holes before installing the screws. I'd think that would provide some good lubrication.
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One more coat of varnish on the rails and we are done! Going to get it wet next weekend for sure.
In this case, the holes for the brass screws were tapped first by running a steel screw into the hole. I have done that in the past too to ease the brass in. However, even with caulking in the hole I broke one, thankfully it is above the waterline and I was able to run a new one beside the old since it broke off under the canvas. I just hit the old one a few times with a drill bit to allow it.
This boat has come a long way from when Red got it. I hope to never take on another canoe that has been fibreglassed. Red sent me some photo's of when he removed the glass and I will get them edited and posted with photo's of the finished boat once we get it out in the sun.
