My first time using it, for some small fiberglass repairs, 12" crack in kevlar, three 12x6 inch patch's on Royalex canoes, a few more small repairs..
How much, what size and from who?
Thanks
How much, what size and from who?
Thanks
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Peel Ply ?'s
- Thread starter Robin
- Start date
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...Release+Fabric
$15.99 ought to do you.. Great for fiberglass. no shards!
Check out West Systems too.. could be cheaper for what you need. This from Chesapeake Light Craft
http://www.clcboats.com/shop/produc...xy-fiberglass/west-system-release-fabric.html
$15.99 ought to do you.. Great for fiberglass. no shards!
Check out West Systems too.. could be cheaper for what you need. This from Chesapeake Light Craft
http://www.clcboats.com/shop/produc...xy-fiberglass/west-system-release-fabric.html
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Robin,
RAKA has it, so do many of the other resin and fiberglass suppliers. (Mertons, Noah's, etc)
The stuff from RAKA seems too expensive to me. Although I haven't yet tried it (very soon) I imagine any close knit 100% polyester fabric would do.
I remember Alan saying that some worked better than others, better being a treated fabric. But, he didn't say the untreated didn't release!! Plenty of sources for polyester fabric.
RAKA has it, so do many of the other resin and fiberglass suppliers. (Mertons, Noah's, etc)
The stuff from RAKA seems too expensive to me. Although I haven't yet tried it (very soon) I imagine any close knit 100% polyester fabric would do.
I remember Alan saying that some worked better than others, better being a treated fabric. But, he didn't say the untreated didn't release!! Plenty of sources for polyester fabric.
You won't need much for the amount you're doing now. It's usually sold by the yard at 60" wide. I'd always used the white stuff before from either Raka or US Composites. It releases ok, especially on small patches, but on larger layups it can be tough to pull off and sometimes the edges would fray on release and leave little strands stuck in the resin. Takes a little sanding to get them out but not much.
This last time I bought the bluish stuff from Express Composites labeled as treated (their white is labeled as untreated). It's supposed to be impregnated with silicone I believe. It's noticeably more slippery and releases much nicer from the dried resin. Virtually no edge fraying. It's a little more expensive but it's all I'll be using from here on out.
Express Composites is a nice company out of Minneapolis. They've been around a long time and it's still like dealing with a "small" business. Good prices and until just a few months ago they didn't have an on-line store, had to phone in your orders. Always friendly and helpful anytime I've called.
http://www.expresscomposites.com/?product=vacuum-b-i
For what you're doing the white stuff would be fine too. You could probably get by using sheet plastic too as long as you're not on any compound curves. Mike McCrea had a nice post a couple years back on the different peel ply alternatives. I think it was posted here and myccr. Can't remember all the results.
Edit to add that if you do much epoxy work on other repairs, even if glass isn't involved, you'll find all kinds of uses for peel ply. It's great for working with thickened epoxy as you can use your fingers over the peel ply to help smooth and shape the filled area without the epoxy sticking to your fingers and pulling away.
Alan
This last time I bought the bluish stuff from Express Composites labeled as treated (their white is labeled as untreated). It's supposed to be impregnated with silicone I believe. It's noticeably more slippery and releases much nicer from the dried resin. Virtually no edge fraying. It's a little more expensive but it's all I'll be using from here on out.
Express Composites is a nice company out of Minneapolis. They've been around a long time and it's still like dealing with a "small" business. Good prices and until just a few months ago they didn't have an on-line store, had to phone in your orders. Always friendly and helpful anytime I've called.
http://www.expresscomposites.com/?product=vacuum-b-i
For what you're doing the white stuff would be fine too. You could probably get by using sheet plastic too as long as you're not on any compound curves. Mike McCrea had a nice post a couple years back on the different peel ply alternatives. I think it was posted here and myccr. Can't remember all the results.
Edit to add that if you do much epoxy work on other repairs, even if glass isn't involved, you'll find all kinds of uses for peel ply. It's great for working with thickened epoxy as you can use your fingers over the peel ply to help smooth and shape the filled area without the epoxy sticking to your fingers and pulling away.
Alan
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Mike's peel ply alternative test:
http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...8-peel-ply-wax-paper-plastic-wrap-experiment
Alan
http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...8-peel-ply-wax-paper-plastic-wrap-experiment
Alan
I've bought polyester dress lining from the fabric store. It works pretty well, uncoated obviously. You want to look for a very tight weave. Also don't expect too much help from the ladies working there. They usually ask what it's for and then I usually waste both of our time trying to explain it. It's cheap from them and local. I've never had any issues releasing it. Make sure to have extra peel ply overhanging, so it's easier to get it started peeling it off.
Thanks everyone, I went with Jamestown, as I needed some other items they sell, gloves, foam brushes.
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On exterior composite boats, I prefer the release film rather than the peel ply, no need to sand, smooth as glass, you save time and it look better!!
I have used the mold release fabric from Jamestown Distributors many times and it works very well. You just need to cut a piece a bit larger than whatever size patch you are covering with it, so that there is an inch or so of overlap. Make sure you eliminate any air bubbles under the peel ply and any wrinkles or pleats by working the excess epoxy off the edges of your patch with a plastic spatula/squeegie. If necessary, you can apply a little more epoxy to the top of the peel ply to eliminate any air bubbles.
Any release fabric will impart a bit of texture to your patch. The resulting matte finish is not unpleasant, but if you want an absolutely smooth patch, as you probably do on the hull exterior, just apply another thin coat of epoxy to fill in the texture after you remove the peel ply.
Any release fabric will impart a bit of texture to your patch. The resulting matte finish is not unpleasant, but if you want an absolutely smooth patch, as you probably do on the hull exterior, just apply another thin coat of epoxy to fill in the texture after you remove the peel ply.
I have used Peel Ply( interior) but twice but FWIW I laid some epoxy on, put the patch on. more epoxy and then Peel Ply with a dry brush using the tip down dabbed dabbed to work in the epoxy to the Peel Ply and remove excess. Did not use a squeegee. The dabbing got rid of air bubbles.
Just another approach.
Just another approach.
Thanks, very helpful info.
Working with fiberglass and epoxy always gave me the hebegebe's, I guess cause I didn't do it much, add the mix/time factor, plus it was sorta hit and miss with little outside help and always so so results with lots of sanding and then globs of bondo (hot rod days)
I received the box of material from Northstar Canoe yesterday. A nice handwritten note with added instructions, a little pep talk and some extra heavier fiberglass thrown in for the big crack I need to fix. Excellent service, I'm glad I called them. Northstar Canoe http://northstarcanoes.com/
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Working with fiberglass and epoxy always gave me the hebegebe's, I guess cause I didn't do it much, add the mix/time factor, plus it was sorta hit and miss with little outside help and always so so results with lots of sanding and then globs of bondo (hot rod days)
I received the box of material from Northstar Canoe yesterday. A nice handwritten note with added instructions, a little pep talk and some extra heavier fiberglass thrown in for the big crack I need to fix. Excellent service, I'm glad I called them. Northstar Canoe http://northstarcanoes.com/
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G
Guest
Guest
I felt the same trepidation for far too long. I had a shop friend who was auto-body glass and resin knowledgeable, and for years I asked his assistance in even the simplest FRP repairs, applying AutoZone or Pep Boys E-glass and polyester resin.
He finally moved away and I was forced to discover that A, there were far better materials, and B, even if I screwed up I could sand away most of my mistakes.
Over time the mistakes to be sanded away became less and less frequent. The only way to become proficient at glass and epoxy work is to jump in, try your best and learn from your mistakes.
Things that helped in overcoming those fears – West System (or other) cans of part A/B with calibrated pumps. And peel ply or other release fabrics. I do wish I had known about peel ply sooner, and I will never do another fabric and resin repair without it.
I still feel the same hebejeebies about gel coat repair. Maybe someday.
I made plenty of mistakes when starting to work with fiberglass. Still do. But nothing has sank yet. Some of it was too heavy, too light, didn't look as good as it should or took a lot more work than it should have get it looking good. Like Mike said, it comes with practice. If you screw up there's always sandpaper.
Having a couple different hardeners on hand is nice so you can determine how quickly the resin will kick. When I get stuff from Raka I order fast (around 8min. pot life) and slow (around 20 minute pot life). I can mix these to get anything I want in between. It's nice to use the fast setting stuff when it's colder in the shop and you only have a small project and the slow is nice when it's warmer or you have more work to do. I've recently started using Adtech and their slow hardener has a 45 minute pot life, which is great when doing an entire boat. Much less stressful.
Peel ply does make a huge difference. I peeled it off the stems of my composite build this morning and while there are a few pockets of unfilled weave where the peel ply puckered because of the tight curve for the most part it's got a near perfect finish that will only require a little sanding and another light coat of epoxy to finish it off. The transition from the newly added cloth to the hull is nicely tapered with no edge. Without something like peel ply it would have taken 3-4 more coats to fully fill the weave and then sanding on top of that.
Another tip for working with fiberglass is that you can do a lot of easy work with a sharp chisel, scraper, or knife when the epoxy is mostly setup but still 'green'. At that point it's pretty much set, maybe you can still dent it with a thumbnail, maybe not, but it's not really hard yet. When it's like that you can easily shave off drips and runs or trim away any extra cloth that might be hanging over the shear line with a razor blade knife. Soft enough to cut but hard enough the cloth won't move. Much nicer than sanding it off later. The 'green' time is usually a pretty wide window (a few hours) depending on ambient temp, speed of the hardener, and how much resin was applied (thicker laminate=more resin=more heat=faster setup).
Alan
Having a couple different hardeners on hand is nice so you can determine how quickly the resin will kick. When I get stuff from Raka I order fast (around 8min. pot life) and slow (around 20 minute pot life). I can mix these to get anything I want in between. It's nice to use the fast setting stuff when it's colder in the shop and you only have a small project and the slow is nice when it's warmer or you have more work to do. I've recently started using Adtech and their slow hardener has a 45 minute pot life, which is great when doing an entire boat. Much less stressful.
Peel ply does make a huge difference. I peeled it off the stems of my composite build this morning and while there are a few pockets of unfilled weave where the peel ply puckered because of the tight curve for the most part it's got a near perfect finish that will only require a little sanding and another light coat of epoxy to finish it off. The transition from the newly added cloth to the hull is nicely tapered with no edge. Without something like peel ply it would have taken 3-4 more coats to fully fill the weave and then sanding on top of that.
Another tip for working with fiberglass is that you can do a lot of easy work with a sharp chisel, scraper, or knife when the epoxy is mostly setup but still 'green'. At that point it's pretty much set, maybe you can still dent it with a thumbnail, maybe not, but it's not really hard yet. When it's like that you can easily shave off drips and runs or trim away any extra cloth that might be hanging over the shear line with a razor blade knife. Soft enough to cut but hard enough the cloth won't move. Much nicer than sanding it off later. The 'green' time is usually a pretty wide window (a few hours) depending on ambient temp, speed of the hardener, and how much resin was applied (thicker laminate=more resin=more heat=faster setup).
Alan
I tried my first project with the Release Fabric I purchased from Jamestown and all went well. I ended up with a very smooth finish that will just be roughed up like the rest of the hull to aid with the new varnish. The canoe had a puncture right thru the fiberglass and plank. I rounded out the edges of the hole like a dish and taped a new piece of plank on the inside. I then layed 3 layers of fiberglass down one bigger that the last. I think I should have used 4 layers to get a perfect level finish but it's much better than I ever hoped for.
Thanks for the leads and helpful advice.
It is smooth and solid not sure if these pictures show that. The black circle is the cedar plank I rounded out, I'm not sure if I could have avoided that and gotten such a strong fiberglass patch.
Thanks for the leads and helpful advice.
It is smooth and solid not sure if these pictures show that. The black circle is the cedar plank I rounded out, I'm not sure if I could have avoided that and gotten such a strong fiberglass patch.
