I'm curious if any of you using air/inflatable sleeping pads are "XL" gentlemen? Do they hold up and provide enough cushion for the 250+ lb camper?
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Packing Style
- Thread starter PeteStaehling
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I’m 230 and all of the one I owned were good except for the exped’s!!
Thanks - Good to know. I might have to look into these, not just for myself, but for the rest of the family. Three big sleeping mats take up an enormous amount of space on any type of trip.
In my experience different trips require different strategies. If there are no portages obviously you can take what you want as long as you don't overload your boat. For portaging trips it depends if you want to single or double carry and to a lesser extent if you are solo or tandem. I was never able to single carry comfortably because I was unwilling to give up stuff like fishing gear, camera gear, chair, binoculars and especially the shotgun which was the real killer for me.
When double portaging solo I can take what I but the pack is not light. When double porting on a tandem trip the packs are much lighter per person due to the shared gear like tent, tarp and cooking kit. If it is a short trip without a lot of food, the packs can seem almost too light. In this case I may add things like a table, double burner Coleman stove or a bigger tent.
Whatever kind of trip I'm on I try to keep the weight of each pack manageable. For instance instead of carrying one 60 lb. pack I would break it down to two packs, like a 35 and 25 lbs. and throw the lighter one on top of the heavier one for one carry. This makes loading and unloading the boat less strenuous and shouldering the packs easier. It also gives you the option to drop the top pack on a steep uphill or some other difficult obstacle. Another advantage to having more packs is that you don't have as much effort into squeezing your stuff in to make it all fit.
When double portaging solo I can take what I but the pack is not light. When double porting on a tandem trip the packs are much lighter per person due to the shared gear like tent, tarp and cooking kit. If it is a short trip without a lot of food, the packs can seem almost too light. In this case I may add things like a table, double burner Coleman stove or a bigger tent.
Whatever kind of trip I'm on I try to keep the weight of each pack manageable. For instance instead of carrying one 60 lb. pack I would break it down to two packs, like a 35 and 25 lbs. and throw the lighter one on top of the heavier one for one carry. This makes loading and unloading the boat less strenuous and shouldering the packs easier. It also gives you the option to drop the top pack on a steep uphill or some other difficult obstacle. Another advantage to having more packs is that you don't have as much effort into squeezing your stuff in to make it all fit.
I did many trips minimalist solo with a packframe mount for my solo and single tripped. Now being older I can't do that and besides want some comforts like a chair and comfortable hammock with a view and shoes for camp.. So I either use wheels or double trip.I ues 2 main packs, carrying the lighter when carrying my canoe. We all have different priorities. When tripping with my wife I go heavier and we don't do carrys. We also bring bigger chairs, a tarp and use a 4 man tent. Either way we go minimal on food weight. Turtle
Something occurred to me about packing volume. I always strive for a low volume when backpacking or bike touring. My pack is usually a 45 liter for backpacking even when I have a bear canister and everything typically fits inside. That desire for low volume affects both gear choices and packing methods. It occurred to me that it can be desirable to actually fill up the empty space in our boats to displace water. I know that in my whitewater boats I went to great lengths to do so.
That got me to wondering if anyone went with an approach of using a really big foam sleeping pad and not compressing it and/or not compressing their down sleeping bag and/or other bulky gear and packing it all in a very large waterproof bag. I have a 3.8 Bill's Bag (110 liters) that is huge for my usual gear, but would nicely fill a large section of a canoe. I could probably fill it if I didn't compress anything and inflated my sleeping pad enough.
That got me to wondering if anyone went with an approach of using a really big foam sleeping pad and not compressing it and/or not compressing their down sleeping bag and/or other bulky gear and packing it all in a very large waterproof bag. I have a 3.8 Bill's Bag (110 liters) that is huge for my usual gear, but would nicely fill a large section of a canoe. I could probably fill it if I didn't compress anything and inflated my sleeping pad enough.
The Helinox chair is a keeper. At 1lb. the chair zero is a no brainer. Even at 2 lbs, chair one is worth it. The sand pad adds a little but is also indispensable. I've been trimming the load for years, but have just gone back to triple portaging. Makes it less extreme. Planning a fall trip now. The old guys on here have helped make my trips more enjoyable. If I can trip into my 70s like some here I'll declare victory and accept anything afterwards with a smile.
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Comfort means more to me now than ever before. Although I've wrapped up in a blanket on the ground in front of a dying fire I'll not do that anymore. It's Neo Air mattress and a down bag for me now. Ultra light also means ultra comfort on a carry. As far as durability goes I've had no real problems. Poked a blem in my light canoe that'll get a smear of epoxy some day soon. The light Hubba Hubba needs seam sealing now. Not sure but I think I may've singed another cinder hole in the small tarp. I have a colourful patch kit for that. Ultra light extends to my food these days. Fewer cookware items and nil camp prep. I'm happy with home dehydrated meals, even the simplest ones. The newest item in my pleasure camping arsenal is my ultra light mini chair. It's a Helinox type. I underestimated the comfort value of even short little legs on a bucket seat a little off the ground. Comfort both in camp and on the portage works for me. We all make our own subjective choices as to what works for us. And then of course not every trip need be the cookie cutter same as the last one.
Those are a couple points that seem important to me, I know that many of my bike touring acquaintances tout comfort as the reason they carry a heavy load while I always figured that went against the places where comfort really mattered for bike touring. The two places where comfort is really important in bike touring are when riding and when sleeping. Both can best be served with a very light load IMO. Not sure that transfers completely to canoe tripping. I think it may for some folks and some types of trips, but probably not always for others.
I guess there is the equivalent of canoe trips with no carries in bike touring in the form of touring where there are no climbs, but for me long tours always have climbs and usually have mountain passes.
BTW, I have enjoyed reading this thread so far and seeing what approaches folks take to packing for trips.
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Perhaps because I base camp a lot, or at least prefer not to move camp every single day, I like having a separate bedroom and living room/kitchen. Small tent, big tarp.
If the bedroom is small-ish – not a bivy sack but an undersized “two” man tent, that is fine, all I do is sleep inside.
For a rainy day kitchen I’d rather cook and eat outside the bedroom under a tarp.
For a rainy day living room, a tarp big enough to stand up and walk around under, set slightly peaked so I can have 360 degree views all around. Big enough that if I do need to drop one edge as a windbreak or for sideways rain protection I still have sheltered living space.
If I need to pack or unpack or stage gear in the rain, or even hang things to drip semi-dry under the tarp on a secondary line, I’m good.
Even better if I can string the day use hammock between trees under the tarp.
IMG013 by Mike McCrea, on FlickrThat was obviously not in sharp vee formation for rain shelter; it was windy as hell and the dropped sides made a calm hammock abode. I do like those bright, cheery colors, especially on an otherwise drab, grey day.
The biggest improvement in my tarpage has been using a ridgeline stuff sack and an ample length of rope through the tarp loops, with end prusiks and clips for easy-slide adjustment and connection.
Setting up a tarp solo, even a big tarp, is cake with that system. Plus it largely keeps my tarp off the ground when setting up or taking down. Not really “down” since the tarp (along with the stuff bag) hangs on the ridgeline before stuffing, out of the mud, dirt, duff and occasional thorny greenbriar.
https://shop.cookecustomsewing.com/product.sc?productId=227&categoryId=12
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In fact I bought the chair(s) for cycle touring. Our plans for weekenders this season have been indefinitely delayed due to Covid, so we have been getting out for day tours. Although we don't have camping to occupy the evenings the chairs still come along for Saturday and Sunday cycle picnics. A 1 lb chair in each panier isn't much of a load. The lunch is never more than half that weight even with a collapsable bottle of wine. Rain jackets if the weather looks changeable. Fairly quiet empty roads have been the upside to these virulent times. I siliconed some extra hiking pole snow basket feet onto the back chair legs for added flotation in soft ground environs. These chairs are a little more weight and volume for a big payoff in comfort. I apply the same trade-off for canoe tripping.
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flyingbison - You asked about Alan's pad so I figured I'd share the info on my. The pad I bring when taking a luxury item is a Nemo Tensor. I purchased the regular length pad (72") but went with the wide (25") model instead of the usual 20" width. I have a Neo-Air but had problems with it being wide enough; something that was never an issue in the past with a 20" wide pad. The weight penalty is just over a pound but I sleep better on it so it's worth it since my carries usually aren't to great in length. Since my wife is smaller, the Neo Air works for her so it's still able to be used.
That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.
snapper
That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.
snapper
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For me it's all about being able to get comfortable at your camp. Bad weather, bad portages, headwinds, and bugs among other things can dampen your spirits when you're moving, but knowing that at some point I will be warm, dry, and comfortable keeps me smiling.
As a bivy user I have to say that I chuckled a little when I read your classification of the Hubba Hubba as "almost 2-man". I always considered mine to be a roomy 2 man.
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This is the best thing I read so far and resonate with the way we travel!! I went for a sheep hunt this year and man that is not the kind of traveling I enjoy the most, sitting on the ground under a trap set up with hacking poles, cooking on a small camps stove, no wood to cook on or warm up around, eating simple out of a pouch dish, sleeping in a small 2 man tent...... all of it going on you back, including all you need to deal with a sheep of sheep you find!!
Depends what I'm doing and who I'm with... when I took my girls on easy trips, I loaded up heavy... by the time my youngest was 16, I'd taught her about ultralight and we did a memorable trip in some very light rented solo canoes, ultralight packs, and involving a short portage that was sort of her 'graduation exercise', after which i have never checked her bag again; packing is on her now (she's 25). We also did heavier trips and longer portages carrying tarps and a wannagen and chairs, and in the process had a lot of fun sitting out a 3 day rain (ever lost 20 games of Uno in a row to a kid?) under a tarp.
Mostly I trip alone, or with others who are equipped to be alone, but we just happen to be traveling together... What I carry depends on the route and whether I'm moving on the next day, covering distance, or whether I'm going into a spot to base camp from, going out in a different direction each day to fish, climb a hill, go explore another pond, or what have you. Portages also matter.
Loop trips with lots of portages and a different camp every night necessitate an ultralight canoe and an ultralight pack. At it's lightest (small tarp/air mattress/summer bag), this is a 12lb base load, plus food (2lbs/day), water (2lbs per qt), canoe/paddle/PFD, seat cushion, and fishing gear. My hammock setup is 3lbs heavier than my lightest ground setup. Later in the season this would be another couple pounds heavier due to gloves, top/bottom layers, a thicker bag, higher rated mattress, and larger tarp.
Flat trips with few portages to a base camp mean a larger solo canoe, a small wannagan (so convenient as a table/stool), maybe a folding chair, a Whelen lean-to for the kitchen area, full sized axe/saw, a grill, and a hammock setup for sleeping. Probably 15lbs of extra weight there, in luxury items, on top of the load mentioned above.
Mostly I trip alone, or with others who are equipped to be alone, but we just happen to be traveling together... What I carry depends on the route and whether I'm moving on the next day, covering distance, or whether I'm going into a spot to base camp from, going out in a different direction each day to fish, climb a hill, go explore another pond, or what have you. Portages also matter.
Loop trips with lots of portages and a different camp every night necessitate an ultralight canoe and an ultralight pack. At it's lightest (small tarp/air mattress/summer bag), this is a 12lb base load, plus food (2lbs/day), water (2lbs per qt), canoe/paddle/PFD, seat cushion, and fishing gear. My hammock setup is 3lbs heavier than my lightest ground setup. Later in the season this would be another couple pounds heavier due to gloves, top/bottom layers, a thicker bag, higher rated mattress, and larger tarp.
Flat trips with few portages to a base camp mean a larger solo canoe, a small wannagan (so convenient as a table/stool), maybe a folding chair, a Whelen lean-to for the kitchen area, full sized axe/saw, a grill, and a hammock setup for sleeping. Probably 15lbs of extra weight there, in luxury items, on top of the load mentioned above.
This is a really great thread. I am always interested in learning about the gear and clothing other paddlers use. I agree with Pete, it is nice that it can be a civil discussion. My wife is always commenting about how much time I spent with my gear and clothing. I just tell her I could have worse "hobbies."
My packing for a trip seems to always vary a bit especially now that I have two canoes (a Sawyer Autumn Mist and a Hornbeck New Trick 12).
I have used my Granite Gear system (from the early 90's) in both. That includes the portage pack (which I estimate between 55-65 L), the thwart bag and the mesh bag. The thwart bag clips to the shoulder straps in the front and the mesh bag to the back for carries. It has been my go-to system on trips that include carries of a mile or more for more than 20 years. It works equally well in both boats, although now, at my age, I no longer carry the Sawyer that far. It is just too easy to put the Hornbeck over a shoulder and hit the carry trail. The only thing I haven't tried is taking the Hornbeck out on a big windy lake with any significant waves. It has been outstanding on the ponds of all sizes and rivers in the ADKs that I have taken it on.
On trips with no carries or ones of a couple of hundred yards, I use a dry bag system. The bags are by EarthPak. They are well-made and reasonably priced. I have a 50L duffel bag and a 40L pack. I supplement those with a 15L Exped dry bag that holds all the photo, video, field recording gear, electronics and acessories I take along on trips with no significant carries.
The rest of my kit is pretty much standard on all trips with the exception of my kitchen and wood processing gear. When there's no significant carries, I take my Coleman Peak One stove and white gas. If carries are involved, I revert to my backpacking stove, the MSR pocket rocket. I think the pocket rocket might make more trips; a friend gave me a Thermocell Backpacker insect repeller. If it works as well as he says, it will be with me during bug season, and since it works with canisters, the pocket rocket would probably go too. When there are no or short carries, I use a dry bag for my food and hang it. Otherwise I take my Ursack with the odor-proof bag and aluminum sleeve.
When there are short or no carries, my Fiskars splitting axe and Sven saw, in Campcraft sling go along. I sometimes add a Sog hachet to the kit. Otherwise, it is only my backpacking saw, a Bahco folding saw.
Clothing-wise, I have refined that over the years and pretty much have it down for three seasons of paddling in the ADKs. It is mostly synthetics (some with down), but I have some wool pieces that I find practical and enjoy using during the shoulder seasons.
I have started putting my gear up on the Gearshelf website and have found that useful in refining my kits. I put together the kit on the site before the trip and then adjust it afterwards based on my experiences during the trip. I like that the site allows for detailed information on each piece of gear/clothing and the creation of multiple kits. The site is still undergoing development, but the developers are very responsive to requests and ideas. It has a collaborative/community aspect to it as well, so you can see what others are using.
My packing for a trip seems to always vary a bit especially now that I have two canoes (a Sawyer Autumn Mist and a Hornbeck New Trick 12).
I have used my Granite Gear system (from the early 90's) in both. That includes the portage pack (which I estimate between 55-65 L), the thwart bag and the mesh bag. The thwart bag clips to the shoulder straps in the front and the mesh bag to the back for carries. It has been my go-to system on trips that include carries of a mile or more for more than 20 years. It works equally well in both boats, although now, at my age, I no longer carry the Sawyer that far. It is just too easy to put the Hornbeck over a shoulder and hit the carry trail. The only thing I haven't tried is taking the Hornbeck out on a big windy lake with any significant waves. It has been outstanding on the ponds of all sizes and rivers in the ADKs that I have taken it on.
On trips with no carries or ones of a couple of hundred yards, I use a dry bag system. The bags are by EarthPak. They are well-made and reasonably priced. I have a 50L duffel bag and a 40L pack. I supplement those with a 15L Exped dry bag that holds all the photo, video, field recording gear, electronics and acessories I take along on trips with no significant carries.
The rest of my kit is pretty much standard on all trips with the exception of my kitchen and wood processing gear. When there's no significant carries, I take my Coleman Peak One stove and white gas. If carries are involved, I revert to my backpacking stove, the MSR pocket rocket. I think the pocket rocket might make more trips; a friend gave me a Thermocell Backpacker insect repeller. If it works as well as he says, it will be with me during bug season, and since it works with canisters, the pocket rocket would probably go too. When there are no or short carries, I use a dry bag for my food and hang it. Otherwise I take my Ursack with the odor-proof bag and aluminum sleeve.
When there are short or no carries, my Fiskars splitting axe and Sven saw, in Campcraft sling go along. I sometimes add a Sog hachet to the kit. Otherwise, it is only my backpacking saw, a Bahco folding saw.
Clothing-wise, I have refined that over the years and pretty much have it down for three seasons of paddling in the ADKs. It is mostly synthetics (some with down), but I have some wool pieces that I find practical and enjoy using during the shoulder seasons.
I have started putting my gear up on the Gearshelf website and have found that useful in refining my kits. I put together the kit on the site before the trip and then adjust it afterwards based on my experiences during the trip. I like that the site allows for detailed information on each piece of gear/clothing and the creation of multiple kits. The site is still undergoing development, but the developers are very responsive to requests and ideas. It has a collaborative/community aspect to it as well, so you can see what others are using.
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I am interested to read what folks do clothing wise. I really don't have that very sorted at all for canoe tripping. I'll probably use some of my old favorite gear pieces from ww boating and backpacking, but the bicycling specific stuff doesn't transfer.
