Noob question....

[Rippy]

Flee the Coleman canoe! The aluminum canoes mentioned above are ten times better than the Coleman canoe. Dave

 

[Rippy]

Sorry for my ignorance, to paddle a 2 seated solo you sit in the front seat and paddle the boat backwards?

Yes, sit in the front seat and face the back of the boat. This only works with symmetrically shaped boats though.

 

[Guest]

Rippy, problem is i have a very limited budget and I can get that off Craigslist for 300

 

[Sturgeon]

From your link on the previous page, you're in tampa, right? I just typed into craigslist there and entered 'canoe' under the boats for sale.
I get that you have a limited budget. The wenonah sundowner at $675 sounds like a good deal depending on condition...thy are $1500 new. Proven design, 67 pounds. Maybe you could talk the seller down a bit more...

Generally just try to find a boat without those built in consoles and molded seats...simple seats, least amount of plastic cuz that stuff is super heavy, symmetrical so you can paddle it solo "backwards".

$300 canoe in Largo, hard to tell from pics, but it looks like it is fibreglas 16', and simple. Probably a bit heavy, but hey try it out.

I don't know exactly what you plan, but if you are portaging for any distance, your back will thank you if you try lifting the sucker before you buy!

Floridians should chime in here...I don't know anything about salt water, tides, what kind of lakes or rivers, how much portaging goes on down there, all things that would help you decide.


Good luck! It's exciting buying a boat. I'm getting excited just reading the thread and looking at craigslist!

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the input sturgeon, when I type in canoe, I get 3 pages of stuff and have looked at everyone one a couple times now, the link I posted was the cleanest looking canoe I saw there. I might have over looked the ones you mentioned and ill go back and see. I also am getting more and more excited to get one and might be getting alittle too restless. So of course there are better canoes than the Coleman I posted... But are there any bad reviews for it? For a first boat ?

also if your just joining in, I will be using the boat for solo fishing, then tandem day trips with the wife...

 

[oldie moldy]

Fireman, I doubt that there's one of us who hasn't gotten all hot and sweaty thinking that "I'm going to buy it NOW! Voice of experience: bad idea. I say this as kindly as I can; you don't know enough to make a wise pick and if you get stuck with some clunk of a boat it may well turn you away from canoes for a long time.
Find out where you can rent, bring the wife and try it for a day. She may well decide that's enough for her for this lifetime. You might decide that! Just on the off chance you both like it, that leaves all summer to learn much of what you will need to know. Then in the fall is the time to look for good deals on canoes for the obvious reasons.
Remember too that you will need PFDs, paddles, and some method to carry the canoe securely on your car.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that paddling classes often split up couples into different canoes to avoid marital difficulties. If she is interested in canoeing I'd be very careful to make it a happy time.
Act in haste and repent at leisure.

Best Wishes, Rob

 

[Guest]

I guess I should also mention that I'm not a paddling Virgin. I did a good amount of canoeing throughout my life time, as well as my wife. And the "rent-a-canoe" canoes are the ones we have experience on. She love paddling and fishing and everything that comes with it, this is actually long over due.

 

[Guest]

I can say this from person experience... a canoe is much like suit. There isn't one size that fits all. I lived with a canoe that was mediocre for 5 years and many others before that. I was never excited about canoeing as such. When I bought my current boat I tried a bunch and found out what I liked and what I didn't. They all have compromises and not just in weight. Comfort, speed, maneuverability, stability, tracking, stiffness, toughness, etc, etc... you do get what you pay for to a degree. But that said, and as I'm trying to point out, just because a canoe is expensive or a specific brand does not mean it will be the boat for you. They really are vastly different depending on material, seat position and hull shape.

A canoe with good stability for fishing is usually easy to find on the cheap, because cheap, plastic canoes sold by coleman and field and stream tend to be stable. If you want something that you can actually carry to a more secluded place or have something that can move you around a bit more efficiently, then you may have a challenge. I don't use my canoe for fishing so I can't speak for what you should be looking for, but I can guess the attributes you might want or need. It is up to you to decide what you can live with or without.

 

[cflcanoe]

n Tampa take some time maybe a month on Craigs list if you wish a used boat. Familiarize your self of what to look for. You are in prim canoe buying territory. Have been looking for a good solo at price I can afford for over two years. Picked up a couple of tandems for half of what you wish to spend. An explorer and a Blazer. If you are looking for a good Florida boat cheep look for a Mohawk Blazer. Make sure it is a Blazer not some older model Mohawk. Check for cracks in the fiberglass. The last 2 digits of the serial number is the year made. They used to made in Longwood FL. You have probably rented this model. The only thing it lacks when compared to the Mad River Explorer is capacity. A little heavy when compared to a ultralight very expensive canoe but it is better than any thing else even close in its price range. Think of the Coleman, American Eagle, and Indian river as mopeds, Mohawk and the aluminum canoes as a Ford/Chevy/Toyota, and the light weight expensive canoes as some exotic car. Some of the better Old towns and Mad rivers and others can be thought of as Cadillac and Lexus. Remember to save some money for good paddles. The main difference in your experience between renting and buying may just be the paddle as some places rent Old towns and Mohawks. A team in a tandem Mohawk with good paddles can out preform one of those light weight exotic canoes with cheep feather brand paddles or plastic paddles.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Fireman - it was a Coleman that once turned me off to canoeing for some time...before I got to experience a real canoe (again). I would choose a beat-up and in serious need of repair fiberglass hull of decent design (among other things) before I would settle for a Coleman or Pelican canoe. You should be able to find a Grumman, or an Old Town Discovery 169, or any number of usable fiberglass canoes in your price range on Craigs List if you are patient. Since Robin has already invoked P-net, here's a link to help you out in understanding what you're looking for...

http://www.paddling.net/guidelines/showCategory.html?category=5

Start with the last four subjects listed.

 

[Guest]

What was your issues with the Coleman?

 

[Steve in Idaho]

What was your issues with the Coleman?

The same issues I would have with any flat-bottomed, keeled canoe with further hull shape that does nothing to aid efficiency. Once leaned beyond a certain point (way too early), it can't be recovered. The keel drags and catches on shoals. The boat is slow and lacks glide. And specific to the Coleman/Pelican boats - the hull material does a very poor job of holding it's shape.

To go beyond issues that were readily apparent to me at the time, but seal the deal now - it's heavier than it ought to be for it's size and level of durability. It's internal framework (a requirement because of the flimsy hull) is way too subject to damage beyond repair. The hull material is not readily repairable. The cost is not less than many used boats that will outperform it and outlast even a new one. Even the used price is often as much as other more desirable used canoes (as in, canoes that will act like canoes are supposed to). What YC alluded to but didn't go into detail about was the fact that canoes of that type are designed to accommodate shipping (stacked bare hulls, assembled at the point of sale), rather than designed to perform as canoes.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

BTW - Fireman....you have to take the user reviews at P-net with a grain of salt. If you look at the Coleman reviews and believe them, you might come away with the impression that the Coleman must be one of the best canoes on the market. Long-time members at Pnet are aware that many reviewers post their reviews after buying their first canoe and have little experience to judge a canoe by - yet they are so thrilled with it all that they give a good review. After all - if the boat does all they expect - and they don't know how much they should expect - why would they think any different? OTOH - you also see some bad reviews for what experienced paddlers would consider to be very good boats, usually because the new user thinks a higher-performance boat to feel "tippy" due to lack of experience.

The link that I posted for you will give you a better understanding of what to look for in a good canoe - new or used - than will the user reviews.

 

[Guest]

After all - if the boat does all they expect - and they don't know how much they should expect - why would they think any different? OTOH - you also see some bad reviews for what experienced paddlers would consider to be very good boats, usually because the new user thinks a higher-performance boat to feel "tippy" due to lack of experience.

I completely disagree with your argument here. I'm not defending the Coleman, because I know for my needs it would be a terrible boat. But there are many people for which the boat does all that they expect, and that's all it need do, they don't need anymore.

What one considers a good boat may not meet the needs or expectations of another. Feeling "tippy" is unacceptable for some and there is good reason some of those boats are better suited in experienced hands - for an average canoeist who just wants to fish and take pictures they may not notice the things that make it a better performing canoe and notice the things that necessitate an experienced canoeist i.e. apparent lack stability and straight tracking or lack of maneuverability.

To use a bike analogy, some people just need something with two wheels - not everyone needs a full suspension carbon fiber race bike.

Sometimes experienced canoeist need step back and realize that canoes are not for everyone. I know people that hate 'real' canoes and would like a barge like the coleman much more. Some wouldn't even consider a ship unless you can 'put a motor on it..."

 

[Guest]

I completely disagree with your argument here. I'm not defending the Coleman, because I know for my needs it would be a terrible boat. But there are many people for which the boat does all that they expect, and that's all it need do, they don't need anymore.

What one considers a good boat may not meet the needs or expectations of another. Feeling "tippy" is unacceptable for some and there is good reason some of those boats are better suited in experienced hands - for an average canoeist who just wants to fish and take pictures they may not notice the things that make it a better performing canoe and notice the things that necessitate an experienced canoeist i.e. apparent lack stability and straight tracking or lack of maneuverability.

To use a bike analogy, some people just need something with two wheels - not everyone needs a full suspension carbon fiber race bike.

Sometimes experienced canoeist need step back and realize that canoes are not for everyone. I know people that hate 'real' canoes and would like a barge like the coleman much more. Some wouldn't even consider a ship unless you can 'put a motor on it..."

While reading these post I found myself wondering if i would really notice all those things like , drag, tracking, or better maneuverability...

 

[Guest]

You may, you may not. It depends on what you need, what you want and what you expect. My father used a Radission 14' 'canoe' with oars for fishing. He wouldn't be bothered with a narrow boat you had to paddle. His other boat was a square stern row boat. Neither acted anything like a modern canoe , or even a traditional for that matter. For him they worked just fine.

I know and appreciate a 'good' hull. I know not everyone does though. And some hulls I don't like even though they may be considered by some to be very, very good. IME they do some things well but not everything I want. Tracking is a big thing. If you get a long, low rocker hull they track great - in fact hard to turn IMO. They are great for big lakes with wind and waves carrying a lot of gear. If you get on a small river you may not be able to handle it. Longer boats almost always weight more given the same hull material. So even though they may be less efficient some people will prefer a 16' canoe over a 20' or a 17' (there is a big difference between the same design boat in a 16' vs. 17').

Despite my previous post I agree with everything Steve said in #32. I've never used a Coleman canoe but those things tend to be true for those type of boats.

Also I will say I would not spend near that kind of money on a mediocre boat like that... I would save it and keep looking. There are plenty of real canoes or in general, better quality boats, that will do what you want.

I might even suggest going to a dealer where you can try some. At least you can get and idea of what you may want to look for. I wouldn't be too hasty or you may end up with a $400 anchor you hate in a year or so.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

While reading these post I found myself wondering if i would really notice all those things like , drag, tracking, or better maneuverability...

I'll tell you about my brother. All he wanted was something to take wildlife photos from on the local ponds and small lakes. He used a Coleman for a few years and never thought anything of it. The Coleman was lost in a legal incident, so I went shopping for a replacement he could afford. I found him a used Ranger Otter with paddles for $250. He noticed the difference right away. I don't think you could get him to buy another Coleman.

The thing about the Coleman isn't that it's useless - it's just that the price should reflect it's position on the totem pole, IMO. I usually see them around here for $200 or less. Yes, I see them for more a lot of the time - but the lower priced ones are no worse in condition. If there is more than $250 available to spend - even if a flat-bottomed low-performance canoe is called for...which can be the case - there are better boats to be had (an Old Town Camper, for instance).

 

[yellowcanoe]

While reading these post I found myself wondering if i would really notice all those things like , drag, tracking, or better maneuverability...

Re the Coleman. Your bow paddler will notice its cramped up there. Colemans are made for sitting. In the ones I have seen its not possible to kneel,and when conditions are dicey and the bow paddler HAS to,, their head is over the gunwales they are SO far forward. I had to hold up one guy twice in the bow! ( I was paddling right next to them).

You will notice when one of those tanks under the seat gathers water and cannot be emptied...or your incipient hernia will notice. You also will notice if you in the stern have to kneel on that tube..again when things get dicey.

And that tube gives the hull stiffness..but not sufficient. Every single Coleman with a few years age on it has a bent tube..higher in the middle than on the ends. That makes it very hard to steer. It does not seem to want to bend back.

A bunch of us run safety for a river event. We have had such trouble with Colemans on the river run, safety wise that we have asked the livery not to rent them to attendees.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Crimeny, I forgot that. Yeah - no good way to kneel for better control.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Fireman - if you are thinking you would be more comfortable in a flat-bottomed canoe (I was there once), there are some good options in the used market that you won't lose any money on if you decide later to upgrade. The OT Camper I mentioned is fairly common. There are still a lot of good old Blue Hole tandems around - and Buffalo (essentially the same). Wenonah makes the Fisherman and the Kingfisher - not quite, but almost flat. I see an occasional older Lincoln around in good shape. Lots of flat-bottomed aluminum canoes that will not devalue regardless of age. Others I can't think of, I'm sure. I see examples going for $250-$400 pretty often - and I don't even live in canoe country.

If you are ready to buy a rounder hull, there are usually just as many options in a similar price range. Bumping the budget up to ~$600 or so really opens up your options, with some really good boats in very good condition - often with some paddles or gear included.