In the national forests in Idaho, stick stoves are not allowed during a fire ban. I asked. Petro fuel stoves are okay. I didn't ask about alcohol stoves, but it looks to me like they wouldn't be any different in status than a white gas stove.
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Kevin Callan: Death of the Campfire
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
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In the national forests in Idaho, stick stoves are not allowed during a fire ban. I asked. Petro fuel stoves are okay. I didn't ask about alcohol stoves, but it looks to me like they wouldn't be any different in status than a white gas stove.
One difference I can see is that if you knock over an alcohol stove when it's running the result would be different than knocking over a white gas stove.
That being said I've generally heard that alcy stoves are allowed but I've never actually checked on it.
Alan
I rarely have a fire for any reason when solo, and I'm never the one to suggest it with a group. I have been driven out of the forest by smoke and fire too many times, so I am very sympathetic about fire bans. And IMO, they are almost always imposed later than they should be. Around here, they usually don't implement a ban until after big fires are already going and out of control.
I've been using one form of gas stove or another since the mid '80's, and before that it was a Sterno stove. Like others, I generally have other things I want to do instead of tending a fire.
There have been exceptions though. I do practice making "emergency" or cooking fires when out in the snow sometimes. On one particular below freezing February day, a real emergency fire was needed for two soaked guys I rescued after they capsized on the river. And when I camped as the sole occupant of a tiny island in the middle of a lake a few summers ago I indulged in a little campfire, partly for ambience and partly to signal from a distance that the only flat spot on the island was occupied. And then there was that one time many years ago when I was confused about where I was while on a hunting trip (some people would call it "lost"). They tell you in Hunter's Ed that building a small fire anchors you and allows you to gather your thoughts and make a good escape plan. It works.
When I do make a fire, it's always a small one. The "white man fire" joke has more serious weight to it when you hear it from your Navajo friends you've lived and worked with for months at a time, and it has always since been a goal of mine to not be that guy.
I've been using one form of gas stove or another since the mid '80's, and before that it was a Sterno stove. Like others, I generally have other things I want to do instead of tending a fire.
There have been exceptions though. I do practice making "emergency" or cooking fires when out in the snow sometimes. On one particular below freezing February day, a real emergency fire was needed for two soaked guys I rescued after they capsized on the river. And when I camped as the sole occupant of a tiny island in the middle of a lake a few summers ago I indulged in a little campfire, partly for ambience and partly to signal from a distance that the only flat spot on the island was occupied. And then there was that one time many years ago when I was confused about where I was while on a hunting trip (some people would call it "lost"). They tell you in Hunter's Ed that building a small fire anchors you and allows you to gather your thoughts and make a good escape plan. It works.
When I do make a fire, it's always a small one. The "white man fire" joke has more serious weight to it when you hear it from your Navajo friends you've lived and worked with for months at a time, and it has always since been a goal of mine to not be that guy.
Yeah, that's one reason I never warmed up to the alcohol stove idea. But in spite of what we often think of the wisdom of government agencies, I think they recognize the small odds of a little alcohol stove accident starting a wildfire. At least in my area that is mostly pitchy softwoods, flying sparks are the major concern - which is why even twig stoves and Kelly Kettles are included in the ban.
Sparks from target shooting are a real thing. Bullets hitting rocks after passing through the target (and for some people, maybe the rock is the target) can cause sparks. I know of at least a couple of fires that were started that way.
I've never had or used or been on a trip with an alcohol stove, or at least not that I remember. I would expect that they would not be very common, primarily be used only by the experienced campers who would be more careful with them in the first place than the typical weekend warrior. Accidents can always happen, of course. Are they sold in typical big-box stores where most of the latter would be shopping? No clue. I'd expect that they'd be much easier found in the dedicated outdoor stores? I could be completely wrong about it. How hard is it to find fuel for them? Again, I don't know.
We've always been white gas until the last maybe 20 years or so when we switched to propane. Our latest stoves will take either propane or iso-butane.
They're readily available and super cheap. Tons of tutorials on making your own. I'm sure there are tons of unexperienced campers that used them due to the low cost and tinkerability. Not that I think they're inherently dangerous.
Fuel is available at any hardware store and many gas stations. It's just denatured alcohol.
Alan
Thanks, Alan.
I knew that denatured alcohol was the fuel, but that appelation covers a fairly wide variety of concentrations, cut up to 10% (and maybe more) with "denaturing" poisons. The way I'm seeing it, the "best" seems to be minimal adulteration. And checking around does indicate wide availability. I know one couple who uses an alcohol stove, though I've never paddled with them. They don't do long trips, just the occasional overnighter from what I understand.
I wouldn't consider most alcohol stoves as very dangerous either, but some of the comments here indicate that some jurisdictions prohibit them during a fire ban anyway.
Yellow bottle Heet is the favorite alcohol stove fuel for many. It's cheap and available in any auto supply or hardware store. According to its data sheet, it's 99.999% methanol.
Many years ago when I attended Air Force flight crew SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) training in the Washington State wilderness, I heated water over a Dakota Hole fire. The Dakota hole is a very small firepit hole dug in the ground with a short underground channel for the air to enter from another nearby hole. Done right, it features no visible flame above ground and practically no telltale smoke or infrared heat signature, but is a hot cooking fire, easily extinguished in a hurry. I may have practiced it just once since then, but I do not normally carry a small hand shovel needed to excavate one. Nor do I want to risk creating a long lasting Adirondack underground duff fire erupting after I am gone.
Not sure why a twig stove would be banned. It’s all contained and you’re sitting right there. Plus, you’re cleaning up potential wildfire fuel. A campfire is a whole other risk level.
the reasoning is that a twig stove can't be immediately extinguished like a gas or alcohol stove- with those you can simply close the valve or snuffer cap, with a twig stove the only real options are to either let it burn out or douse it with water, either of which can be problematic in an emergency, plus sparks or embers are a serious concern
Because it’s essentially a campfire, just smaller and built in a packable fire ring.
I use an alcohol stove (Minibull Bongo) and prefer denatured ethanol alcohol. It's easy to find, inexpensive, relatively less toxic, somewhat more efficient, and doesn't seem to smoke as much as Heet (yellow bottle).
Added: The red bottle Heet is pretty much worthless as a stove fuel.
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Years ago, when returning from a trip in Canada, I ran out of alcohol and stopped at a gas station to get some Heet....except that it wasn't called Heet in Canada. There were however two different colors (Yellow and Red), just like in the US.
I remembered that one bottle color was preferred but I either remembered the color incorrectly or the Canada version is just that much different than the US version.
I ended up with a very sooty and poorly burning fire that took forever to heat up water. When I screwed the cap back on it was adhered in place seemingly permanently by the residue. After repeated attempts I finally resorted to a couple large pipe wrenches after I got home and the cap was finally removed from the stove.
After letting the stove run for a few hours with denatured alcohol it seemed to clean up pretty well but I still don't think it's perfect.
Alan
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Imagine being a forest service employee trying to argue with someone about the difference in definitions between firewood and twigs.
I once built an alcohol stove just to see what all the fuss was about. Lit it, didn't see any flame, stuck my hand over it like an idiot to see if it was burning, burned my hand in the process, and once I'd put the flame out never tried one again. 
To be fair, I was in my backyard, and would only have burned down the neighborhood, not an entire forest.I think you conclusively disproved Nick's hypothesis.
