Keewaydin 15 Pack boat

[charlie wilson]

Pretty nuanced differences in four boats from the same designer, with the obvious follow on why exclude Colden's Nomad and Placid's RapidFire from comparison?. We'd need to precisely compute/measure block coefficients for meaningful comparison.

Kestrel started life as the Vagabond with symmetrical rocker. It's bottom flattened a little when the mold was splashed from a canoe rather than the stiffer plug, It's current differential rocker arriving from moving the seat and adding stern bondo. Yost has designed two boats in his small touring series since, the Kee 14 the latest.

Peregrine, similarly, started it's life as a Curtis Nomad with increased stem layout bondoed onto a production hull. It's Bottom also flattened a little when the mold was pulled, its rocker was similarly so minimized. Successive "average paddler" sized Yost Solo Trippers have had more pronounced differential rocket and grow progressively wider as the solo paddler group has super-sized itself. Both Swift Kee solos feature DY's new stepped bow rocker.

Flatter bottoms will reduce tracking, stickier bows will compromise maneuverability.
Another way of comparing the hulls might be spent considering whether DY is capable of learning anything over time, and if he would purposely put us on by compromising his designs. Bottom line: the newer designs track and maneuver better than older ones because the designer is narrowing in on perfection.

 

[Guest]

Bottom line: the newer designs track and maneuver better than older ones because the designer is narrowing in on perfection.

If boat geometry could be completely defined by a few numbers on a piece of paper, it all might be easier.

And what one may call perfection, another may call folly. If you can't precisely quantify something in terms of repeatable scientific tests (which is laughable in the canoe industry), then it's subjective.

From what I know the designer prefers paddling these boats sitting on the bottom with a double blade. What may be perfection for that may not be for another style.

One also might be hard-pressed to solicit opinions from someone with a vested interest in selling said boats...

Nothing against the designer, but said person may also be biased in the sense that royalties are made on his molds, and not those that spun off when a certain someone lost the canoes that bore his name.

It is still my opinion that the Keewaydin series was designed to reach a broader range of NEW paddlers, and break out of the niche market here in the states.

 

[icedragonmx]

Any updates on your kee? Still no open water up there?

I did get a chance to get wet but was very limited in the waters to play in. Had a 10-25km/hr wind and a current to deal with but I know that I am going to like this canoe! I did a small "Trip Report" here - http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...ones-Road-Hwy-671-North-of-Kenora-April-26-14 Will hopefully have enough water to get some miles in soon and will do another report then. I will leave the testing of the canoe's limit's for a warmer day. I just don't fancy going for a swim under the ice right now!

First day out and I like it!

 

[yellowcanoe]

If boat geometry could be completely defined by a few numbers on a piece of paper, it all might be easier.

And what one may call perfection, another may call folly. If you can't precisely quantify something in terms of repeatable scientific tests (which is laughable in the canoe industry), then it's subjective.

From what I know the designer prefers paddling these boats sitting on the bottom with a double blade. What may be perfection for that may not be for another style.

One also might be hard-pressed to solicit opinions from someone with a vested interest in selling said boats...

Nothing against the designer, but said person may also be biased in the sense that royalties are made on his molds, and not those that spun off when a certain someone lost the canoes that bore his name.

It is still my opinion that the Keewaydin series was designed to reach a broader range of NEW paddlers, and break out of the niche market here in the states.

I ll suggest strongly you stop right there. You do not know the whole story and the innuendos are blatantly untrue.

You are wrecking the thread with your ignorance..so off base with royalties and design philopsophy.

BTW the Nomad is gorgeous.. the Colden Nomad in a soft green. Met her today.

 

[Guest]

I ll suggest strongly you stop right there. You do not know the whole story and the innuendos are blatantly untrue.

You are wrecking the thread with your ignorance..so off base with royalties and design philopsophy.

BTW the Nomad is gorgeous.. the Colden Nomad in a soft green. Met her today.

I suggest you enlighten us? And a threat with a Colden Nomad? As if I care? I suggest you direct your threats directly to those who are concerned. If you recall I contacted the builder to try to see if one was available... not then... I also got another feeling and I'll bite my lip on that one.

The problem with you and Mr. Wilson is that you are so single sided no one takes you seriously and you cry and whine if anyone calls you out on it... it doesn't matter if I know the whole story or not - I know enough...

Anyway all this BS shouldn't affect one's purchase of a boat but it seems a certain someone always needs to bring up those details. I feel the need to call him out on his own bias and to maybe understand that potential buyers don't like to be told their opinions are wrong. Maybe you should save your sales tactics for the symposium...

And lets lay out all our cards here...

I could go back and look at every post from you and Mr. Wilson that involve a Hemlock canoe and we'd find the same trail of non-sense.

Just shut the heck up and move on. Your vendetta with Dave isn't cute. You've criticized your peregrine endlessly. I didn't see Charlie to the rescue then... god forbid anyone have some sort of comment about a Swift!

You two are truly the ones that spoil the forums for others. Just let people have their little opinions about their boats and forget about your grudges and campaigns. If this was my forum I'd ban you both just for that. It's just as bad as any other spammer out there.

 

[Guest]

l'oiseau, I understand your frustration and concern (and frankly, I agree with much of what you've said, but that's not my point right now). Let's remember that YC and Charlie are experts with long experience under their belts. Consider for a moment: Does a cardiologist tend to see the human body in terms of the heart's functioning? Does an accountant tend to see the world through the lens of numbers and ratios? Is everything relative to a physicist?

I learned long ago that with expertise comes bias rather than balance. In my work as a management consultant I often missed the bigger picture that senior management was dealing with, and I missed the smaller picture that first-line workers lived with every day. My disconnects were compounded by the fact that I often insisted on others seeing things from my "expert" perspective. That really turned them off. It's really no different here.

So let's try to listen to what folks have to say, recognize that everyone has their filters, and - perhaps most importantly - sit for a moment with our reactions.

Then let's go paddle.

 

[memaquay]

Birdman, time to chill, there's no need for that kind of thing here. CW and YC don't wreck anything for me, they give me informed opinions from people who have paddled more hulls than I could dream of….unfortunately, the internet breeds lots of instant experts with less than a couple of hundred kilometres under their hulls.

 

[Guest]

Birdman, time to chill, there's no need for that kind of thing here. CW and YC don't wreck anything for me, they give me informed opinions from people who have paddled more hulls than I could dream of….unfortunately, the internet breeds lots of instant experts with less than a couple of hundred k under their hulls.

With no intention to poke you, I want to ask if you considered carefully that "couple of hundred k under their hulls" comment. There's an enormous gap between that level of paddling - which I can barely conceive of - and "instant expert." We all tend toward hyperbole once in a while. In this case it doesn't serve your purpose.

 

[Robin]

I'm not really up on modern hulls and designs, so most of what you have been talking about is of little interest to me. Sorry to see some uneasiness arise, hopefully we can all realize how it's just not all that important and let's let it go.

Also, This statement was uncalled for, not even remotely accurate and will not be tolerated in the future.
"One also might be hard-pressed to solicit opinions from someone with a vested interest in selling said boats..."

 

[icedragonmx]

Just shut the heck up and move on.

Not the tone I expected on my thread regarding a "new to me" canoe. I am disappointed in the direction this thread has taken. My intent was to get some feedback on my new Keewaydin 15 pack boat and see how it rated for a multi day solo tripper for a heavy guy and gear. Perhaps we can focus on that and leave the rest for another time/place? Would love to hear from people with some practical experience in the Keewaydin 15's. Thanks

 

[oldie moldy]

Well, I don't understand about all these design features that various folks talk about. But if it makes them happy, I'm tickled too.
I do think that everyone is absolutely allowed to have their own opinion. And what the heck, the electrons are darn cheap, so state it as many time as they like.
What I really don't like now-a-days is the mean spirited effort, from way too many, to control and mute anyone who they see as voicing any opinion they don't like.
Personal attacks, telling people to shut up and so on may be common on the rest of the internet but by dab they have absolutely no place here.

Go to a graveyard, look at the stones: all those folks had things that they were passionate about, things they loved and things they hated. It's all passed away now. Before too long it'll be that way for me and you as well. A little courtesy and a little kindness are what's called for on this site and in life as well. We're not here to see through each other, but to see each other through.

Best Wishes, Rob

 

[Guest]

We're not here to see through each other, but to see each other through.

Best Wishes, Rob

Very nicely put, Rob. That's worth a space on my refrigerator door.

 

[Guest]

We're not here to see through each other, but to see each other through.

Best Wishes, Rob

Our daughter and hubby have a lovely looking wall hanging in their living room, with 5 wise and inspirational Buddhist messages embroidered there. I'm not sure if it's just folksy funky hip decor to them or not; I regard them as sound principles of thought and action in this crazy mixed up world of ours. If I could, I'd make Rob's message # 6 on that wall hanging.