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Innegra

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One word title ! A New Revolution in canoe building.

It's the latest innovation in canoe building materials ! It's toted as light, and strong ! Replacing Kevlar and carbon in Top of the line canoes.

How will it work for the home builder ?

Since we are Supposed to be approaching Spring, I thought I'd start to investigate this new Canoe building material !

I know Mrindy on this site has built using this !

Any one out there caring to share ?

Jim
 
I have no building experience with it, but North Star utilizes it in their highly touted IXP layup developed for wilderness river tripping:

"Substantial Innegra with an inner blanket of Aramid. Innegra has excellent impact absorption, great flex and good abrasion resistance. A full wet vacuum bag makes a durable, reasonably light canoe. Multiple layers of Innegra with no foam core or ribs means a canoe capable of extended river tripping and expedition whitewater. An extremely durable lamination with far better performance than Royalex. Exterior resin coated because gel coat chips and cracks when subjected to substantial impacts." Cut/pasted from their website....

Mike
 
I’m new here. Jim, you pushed me over to this site as an authority on composites. So far I’m liking what I see.

I just finished a basalt Innegra hull with a budy. The basalt Innegra drapes really well. Better than carbon Innegra. But neither sand at all, so a veil of glass is probably the best way to finish it out. I’m really eager to see how it holds up.
 
Great to here more are trying Innegra combinations !

Some earlier concerns were about soaking up a lot of extra resin. Did you find this to be true ?

I've heard that Innegra is like Kevlar for sanding .

What about UV degradation ? I see some manufacturers skipping the Gel coat .

Off topic, But in 2001, I attended the Alaska State Fair in Palmer ! Though smaller than the Iowa State Fair, it was fun ! It made a fun side trip as we were Salmon fishing the Susitna (spl ?), at Montana Creek !

Jim

Jim
 
We used more resin than we thought we would. I’m not as good at keeping track of numbers as you are. I think I’d like to blame operator error on this one. I think they say Innegra is UV stable. From what I can tell, the companies skipping gel coat are using polyester resin, which is UV resistant maybe.?? I get co fused. There’s so many options out there now.
Ive never worked with Kevlar, but I can’t imagine it’s any harder to sand than Innegra.

Ya. I imagine our little fair is pretty low key compared to some, but it’s the best we’ve got. So we faithfully torture ourselves once a year.
 
A lot of pro builders stay away from it so far.... John @ Millbrook boat played with it and he's not convinced that it is what the hype suggest it is and John knows a few things about composition canoes!!
 
From the google research I did, Innegras appeal is its lower cost, UV resistence, extreme elongation to breaking strength...and because its a new material! I read in a few places that it works best as a hybrid fabric to take advantage of complimentary properties with stiff materials, and for easier workability.

From personal experience, it cuts and sands like Kevlar but I had a lot more faith in the secondary bonding to the carbon Innegra hybrid cloth than onto pure Kevlar. I fully expected the hybrid cloth to soak up more resin but it really didnt. I havent used the pure Innegra fabric but it looks to have a more spread out weave so maybe thats where the resin-loving rep comes from?
 
I just ran across another Innegra You tube vid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N-LiWRA7RQ

Going by this video, a layup starting from the inside out.
Innegra/ Carbon/ Inegra/ S-glass, should make a pretty tough hull.

Laying up this Hull in a day, might require some HELP, and some slow setting epoxy ? What say you ?

If more stiffness is needed, I could add, to the inside of the hull, using partials, where needed.

Jim
 
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That carbon sandwich in Innegra bread looks tasty - and pretty much indestructible! Haha - you would want all the hands you could get to wet out all 4 layers in place before your resin cures. Innegra by itself has pretty weak tensile and compression strength so S-glass would probably be a good choice!

Found this sheet on the different properties of various fabrics: http://www.noahsmarine.com/mmNM/Images/innegra_presentation.pdf
 
Mike ?

When you wet out your carbon/Innegra, could you easilly see the difference between wet and dry ?

Jim
 
If I recall, it was tricky. Very similar to just carbon fiber, but it was black Innegra. I think we had a lamp in the darker corner of the garage to help with the visibility. I wonder if white Innegra would show better?
 
If I recall, it was tricky. Very similar to just carbon fiber, but it was black Innegra. I think we had a lamp in the darker corner of the garage to help with the visibility. I wonder if white Innegra would show better?

I know others struggled with the carbon. Trying to find a remedy, or at least know what I did wrong !

Thanks !

Jim
 
I've been researching Innegra quite a bit as I prepare for a composite build. I have some innegra/carbon plain weave as well as 3.6oz innegra S being delivered tomorrow to run some test layup infusions with.

Innegra is a light, stretchy, fiber. It is one of the least dense composite fibers known. It will float in liquid resin, so is best used with some sort of vacuum compression or caul plate. Compared to Kevlar, it has a lower modulus (is more stretchy) and about 3 times the elongation-to-break. Ultimate strength is only about 60-80% that of kevlar). Innegra is a Polyolefin, and much like polypropylene or polyethylene it is very chemical resistant and therefore difficult to bond to just about anything- including most resins. Innegra S is made by drawing the fiber to a very fine state- around 24x its original length (compared to about 5x for most polypropylene fibers). This produces very fine fibers with surface ridges and striations- much like a bamboo shoot. The irregular surface is what allows a better mechanical bond in a resin matrix.

My brief understanding on Innegra is that its purpose in the layup is to add resilience to the overall part. Fiberglass can be moderately strong and stiff, but is heavy. Carbon adds strength and stiffness and is very light per unit strength, but is fairly brittle and tends to fail catastrophically. Kevlar adds resilience and will bend without breaking (duct tape your boat and paddle it home), and also some strength. Innegra will add more resilience than kevlar, but will not contribute much strength. It also fuzzes like kevlar when sanded. Each material on its own makes a sub-optimal hull, but combining them in the right ways can take advantage of the individual properties to make a boat that is strong, resilient, light, and overall tough. (strength plus resilience together = toughness). What we laypeople don't know is the layup schedule necessary to get the properties we want. How much of each property is enough? Mathematics might get close, but I think the better answer lies in destructive testing. A few manufacturers have taken those steps. I have a suspicion that the reason it is not widely adopted in general construction is that innegra might contribute little benefit until your canoe is wrapped taco-style around a rock.

The "flexible business card" video linked earlier is a good example of innegra's resilience. Another one is https://vimeo.com/165791841 . (green is 4oz S glass and 4oz Innegra. white is two layers of 4oz S glass) - not my video but a convincing one!

The other property to compare is cost. Innegra costs about 25% that of Kevlar.
 
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Thanks Muddy for your insight, and knowledge !

This is just what us small home builders need !

I've seen Bear Paulson, take a hammer to Bell canoes, with little, or no damage !

The cost is what is helping drive the market to us home builders also !

Infusion is beyond most home builders pocket book, and taking the plunge to incorporate Innegra into a Hand Lay up, is Promising !

Thanks !

Jim
 
Here’s another video that is pretty amazing. We don’t know the layup schedule, but it does show some material resilience.

I hope to get some tests laminated this weekend. For an ultralight hull featuring Innegra, I think a ply schedule might look something like (outside-to-inside):

5.5oz carbon/Innegra plain weave
3.6oz Innegra S laid at +45-45
core
5.7oz carbon twill.

I think this would give a combo of stiffness and resilience appropriate for a flat water canoe.
Possibly a thin glass layer outside for surface finish but my tests should lead me one way or another.
Of course- the carbon/Innegra outer fabric takes care of one of the most important functions: it just looks cool!
 
For just a strength test, that is OK.

But for a hull, you will want either E- glass, or S-glass on the outer, and inner. As Innegra doesn't sand very well. So maybe incorporate them also ?
Oh I see you are considering them.

Where are you sourcing the innegra ?

Jim
 
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There are a couple different fabrics that composite envisions in Wisconsin carries. I'll also add that they pack things extremely well for shipping.

My test went well- I was able to video both sides of my mold tool watch the resin flow front, which was pretty cool to see. https://youtu.be/tgNQn-Al6eQ

I made sure to include a business-card size coupon of the layup schedule from post 18 (above). I'll let it fully cure for a few days then do a destructive test like the other video in post 9.

The parts will be for a seat pedestal. Build thread on another forum: https://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseactio...D=160&confID=1 .
photo11277.jpgphoto11278.jpg
 
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