Gear review after 42 day trip

[Odyssey]

I too am surprised your lean tent didn't work out. Being fully cocooned in nylon can be either cozy or claustrophobic, often during the same trip. The lean seems ideal to me, offering the expansive opening option. I'll have to give it more thought.
The whole fish thing; yeah, I'm hoping that the added self-sufficiency of catching a ready supply of wild protein will bring more satisfaction to the tripping experience. Or maybe I'm dreaming. I'll find out soon enough. ( Yeah, like I'll catch a steady supply. lol)
I can't imagine tripping without a tarp. Even a smaller one for a wedge set up in front of a fire.

 

[Alan Gage]

I too am surprised your lean tent didn't work out.

I don't know if I'd quite say it didn't work out. It mostly fit the bill and provided a lightweight and roomy shelter. Many nights it was fantastic. If I was doing a 1-2 week trip, especially in summer or early fall in more southerly Canada, I'd use it again. But on this trip, with lots of cold and rain, 6 weeks was too long. The condensation wasn't the end of the world but it got annoying when I was trapped inside for a couple days at a time. Especially when it was raining as the raindrops would knock the condensation loose and create a light mist. And depending on wind direction it can get a little drafty inside. Good on warm nights. Not so good on cold ones. I suppose no matter what I had for shelter I would have found things to be frustrated about with 30 days of rain.

The one thing that clinched me on not taking it as my only shelter on another trip that far north again was the severity of the weather and that one night where I was stuck on a tiny island, set up in the only possible location for a tent, and a 35mph wind switched direction in the middle of a rainy night and started blowing directly into the opening. After 10 minutes of scrambling around in my underwear I had things battened down and although the shelter made it through just fine it made me think maybe I should have something with a little more structure that shed wind from any direction and had a smaller footprint for more setup location options.

If I have a piece of gear that I don't see myself using I get rid of it. I won't be getting rid of the Lean. I'll give it plenty more use and did so just a couple weeks ago down in Arizona when I friend joined me and we spent a couple nights with no trees to hang the hammock. Both of us (and Sadie) with plenty of room for gear. Easy in/out with no crawling on our knees. And not a drop of condensation in the morning.

I'll probably buy a real tent for this coming summer and by the end of the year I'll likely have a list of complaints about it as well. Or maybe since I won't be doing a really long trip I'll just use the Lean again.Or maybe the hammock and tarp. It will depend on where I go.

Alan

 

[Guest]

Can we please put this one to rest. Boots of whatever material that fill with water will not "drag you to the bottom" The water inside the boot/wader has the same density as the water outside. They do make swimming a pig but provided you are wearing your pfd you will still float fine.
One of the biggest problems with chest waders in rivers is quite the opposite. They tend to hold air, lifting the feet and pushing your head down if not wearing a pfd or causing you to double up, butt down if you do have a pfd on.

As mentioned the real problem is getting out of the water. It is a lot of effort but the best thing is to take them off if you don't have the option of crawling up a shallow bank.

The comment about concrete overshoes was hyperbolic, water filled waders are obviously not concrete filled waders.

I wore hip waders for years while duckhunting and sneakboating in a canoe, since my preferred technique was to drag the canoe through the marsh into large potholes where jonboats could not venture. I had never before had a swim while wearing waders.

In that particular swim I was not paddling or even getting into a boat; I was officiating at the start of a canoe orienteering event and wearing hip waders while helping participants into their canoes. I was not wearing a PFD.

When I slipped off the high marsh bank I went completely under.

Surprise #1, it took an enormous effort to claw my way back to the surface without being able to employ any leg kick. Actually swimming any distance would have been near impossible without a PFD, and challenging with one.

Surprise #2, I could not get back up the bank without assistance. The hip waders were fastened to my belt via narrow straps run through metal ladder locks on the sides. A sensibly way to keep the waders up and secure, unless they were filled with water.

Getting the waders off would have required using both hands to undo the ladder locks. That was a tidal river with some current, and there was no way I was letting go of that suddenly beloved Spartina grass on the bank. I was about to undo my belt and lose my pants when my laughing companion realized that I was truly struggling and pulled me out.

Had the hip waders not been fastened I think I would have been able to kick my feet and legs free; in that scenario chest waders might be more of a challenge.

Take away #1 from that eye opening episode was to never again fasten the waders using the ladder locks.

I have (unintentionally) swum while wearing Mukluks on several or more occasions. Actually swum, some distance with some leg kick, and usually poured no more than a cup full of water from the boots.

Take away #2, kind of like doing a test swim with a PFD or drysuit, it would be a good idea to do a test swim while wearing waders, or any kind of large over boot, if only to evaluate the swimming and extraction difficulties. It would be a shame to lose both your boots and your pants while tripping.

 

[Canotrouge]

The comment about concrete overshoes was hyperbolic, water filled waders are obviously not concrete filled waders.

I wore hip waders for years while duckhunting and sneakboating in a canoe, since my preferred technique was to drag the canoe through the marsh into large potholes where jonboats could not venture. I had never before had a swim while wearing waders.

In that particular swim I was not paddling or even getting into a boat; I was officiating at the start of a canoe orienteering event and wearing hip waders while helping participants into their canoes. I was not wearing a PFD.

When I slipped off the high marsh bank I went completely under.

Surprise #1, it took an enormous effort to claw my way back to the surface without being able to employ any leg kick. Actually swimming any distance would have been near impossible without a PFD, and challenging with one.

Surprise #2, I could not get back up the bank without assistance. The hip waders were fastened to my belt via narrow straps run through metal ladder locks on the sides. A sensibly way to keep the waders up and secure, unless they were filled with water.

Getting the waders off would have required using both hands to undo the ladder locks. That was a tidal river with some current, and there was no way I was letting go of that suddenly beloved Spartina grass on the bank. I was about to undo my belt and lose my pants when my laughing companion realized that I was truly struggling and pulled me out.

Had the hip waders not been fastened I think I would have been able to kick my feet and legs free; in that scenario chest waders might be more of a challenge.

Take away #1 from that eye opening episode was to never again fasten the waders using the ladder locks.

I have (unintentionally) swum while wearing Mukluks on several or more occasions. Actually swum, some distance with some leg kick, and usually poured no more than a cup full of water from the boots.

Take away #2, kind of like doing a test swim with a PFD or drysuit, it would be a good idea to do a test swim while wearing waders, or any kind of large over boot, if only to evaluate the swimming and extraction difficulties. It would be a shame to lose both your boots and your pants while tripping.

Rule #1 in my book, is always have a sharp knife on yourself at all time, it could come really handy.

 

[Guest]

Rule #1 in my book, is always have a sharp knife on yourself at all time, it could come really handy.

I do not remember if I had a knife on me. Probably; I usually have at least a slender 2 ½ inch folder in my pants pocket. I always have a blunt-tipped rescue knife on my PFD lash tab, but I was not wearing a PFD, and I’m not sure how easily I could have dug into my pants pocket under the waders past the straps and ladder locks.

I was ready to let go my alterniflora grasp with one hand, unfasten my belt buckle and lose the pants and waders. Which, with a crowd of orienteering folks watching, would have been infamous in club lore, and probably well photographed. I was not getting up that bank unassisted with waders on, and sure as heck not “swimming” off to find a shallower exit.

In that same guise, a leg kick, arm pull and self-rescue flop over the gunwales and back into the canoe while wearing water filled waders seems equally unlikely.

Rule #17 may be to not wear stuff that overly inhibits swimming or self rescue.

That wader swim combined a number of concurrent factors; no PFD, no accessible knife, steep bank, cold moving water. That is the multiple strikes stuff accident reports are made of, and I count it as a lucky lesson that I had a companion atop the bank.

(Doug, that companion atop the bank was CWDH, and his daughter Nicki I was helping into the canoe. You have heard his laugh; now imagine hearing it as you desperately grasp some bank side foliage and consider coming out of the water pantless)

I’d like to hear other folks experience who have swum with hip waders, chest waders or over boots. I can’t be the only one who has had that experience.

 

[lowangle al]

Rule # 2 Bring a spare pair of pants.

 

[frozentripper]

WB Mike...

I’d like to hear other folks experience who have swum with hip waders, chest waders or over boots. I can’t be the only one who has had that experience.

I did fall in wearing chest waders a long time ago, all I can remember is it wasn't easy to walk out on shore afterwards.

Maybe a more relevant story is being a green summer student listening to a hardened old vet giving instruction about boat safety... his advice was to unlace boots in the boat because you never knew when you're going over and unlacing those things underwater so you can swim might not be possible, esp in cold water. He would sit there during the evening going on and on and on about this and that, what made boots great in the bush, what kind of pocketknife was the best, whether you wanted to hear it or not. Me and my survey bud went outside to smoke joints and walk the trails in Haliburton at night. We ended up wearing rubber boots which were easy to kick off in the water and never had any problems.

 

[lowangle al]

I personally would steer clear of a lug sole. I think they would bring a lot of mud into the boat that otherwise could be rinsed off with a quick dip before stepping in the boat. They would also not be as comfortable if you tuck your feet under the seat. The Maine hunting boot is like a rubber mochasin.

 

[Alan Gage]

I personally would steer clear of a lug sole. I think they would bring a lot of mud into the boat that otherwise could be rinsed off with a quick dip before stepping in the boat. They would also not be as comfortable if you tuck your feet under the seat. The Maine hunting boot is like a rubber mochasin.

They offer the thinner sole similar to the bean boots as well but I always assumed that would get terrible traction in mud or leaf/pine needle covered ground.

But I guess when I think about it muddy ground generally isn't an issue where I go. What I really need is good traction on snot rocks, which is what I call the damp/wet rocks covered with moss and lichen, especially the brown stuff. I don't think anything will grip them all that good but there is a difference in soles. My trail running shoes I bring for camp shoes will about break your neck on that stuff. The two wet boots I've brought have been noticeably better.

Alan

 

[Odyssey]

On our shopping list this spring are pairs of neoprene socks. The booties look interesting as well. But for the time being I'd like to have the extra warm and dry protection of n socks inside whatever else I slip into. Tall rubber boots will be my choice of footwear this spring. I know they'll fit, as I bought the farm boots a little oversized so they'd kick off easily without having to touch them. Ick. I first saw Bill Mason's neoprene-running shoe (sneakers) combination in his books. I might finally try that this year. Those Schnees look like the perfect tripping boot, but the price is hard for me to justify right now. I've worn the Bean boots before; they're great, but I'm not fond of the sole. If I had to choose between a muddy boot and a slippery one, well I suppose I'd rather be vertical and muddy than horizontal and bruised. But finding the right sole is difficult, and there likely isn't one right answer for everyone. Swishing my boots off just before stepping into the canoe is second nature now. And I keep a bailing sponge at my feet for the swilling bilge water. Three decades into this tripping thing and I'm still experimenting.
I've yet to go full on open fires, nor try the alky stoves. There's often fire bans here so a fuel backup is sensible. I'm hoping to kill both of those birds with one stone; twig and alky only, no more naptha. The space and weight savings would be significant, but it's new territory for me. Never had to build a fire each and every night, nor try to cook over an alky fondue flame. I'm excited/nervous about this.
There's no way we're wearing waders. Roomy? Yes. Waterproof? Definitely. Comfortable? Probably.
But finding pants that fit this Munchkin is hard enough. I'd have to trim the wader suspenders stupid short to keep them up. Pretty sure the waist isn't mean't to tuck under arms and chin. I'll pass on them for now.

 

[lowangle al]

I can't say I never slipped with bean boots but there not too bad. I thought they wore down pretty quick, especially since I use them mostly on soft dirt as opposed to concrete. It could be the result of carrying heavy weight and climbing hills. I did notice that after being resoled (replacing rubber bottoms) they were not as waterproof, with a trickle coming in the old thread holes. It's not bad enough to be a deal breaker for me and my feet never got uncomfortable and usually dried out on their own. They never got to the point that I felt like I needed to change my socks.


I used to wear Xtra Tuff rubber boots and they are comfortable enough to wear all day(sometimes I wear them at work all day). I would wear them again especially if I was expecting very wet conditions. One time I had to do some wading in cold temps and I duck taped my rubber rain pants around the boots and it worked surprizingly well.

 

[Iskweo]

I used to have to do a swim test every couple of years wearing combat clothing, sans boots. That was an eye opener in that if one took ones time, in a pool, you could make it to the deep end and back, but it was a chore. I imagine that in slightly rough water with any current, cold, wind, or other BS to get in the way it might be pretty much impossible. Given that I am much older and not in great shape, this is looking sketchy.

A PFD is definitely required just to keep me afloat while I sort out what to do. Can this really be all that much harder than being in a drysuit? A lot of the chest waders now are very form fitting and would not be gotten off in a hurry. Hip waders, hopefully, can just be cut off? I still intend to wear mine but a swim test and the use of a PFD looks like a good idea.

 

[Odyssey]

I used to have to do a swim test every couple of years wearing combat clothing, sans boots. That was an eye opener in that if one took ones time, in a pool, you could make it to the deep end and back, but it was a chore. I imagine that in slightly rough water with any current, cold, wind, or other BS to get in the way it might be pretty much impossible. Given that I am much older and not in great shape, this is looking sketchy.

A PFD is definitely required just to keep me afloat while I sort out what to do. Can this really be all that much harder than being in a drysuit? A lot of the chest waders now are very form fitting and would not be gotten off in a hurry. Hip waders, hopefully, can just be cut off? I still intend to wear mine but a swim test and the use of a PFD looks like a good idea.

Sooo what you're saying is, if I take an unscheduled swim on our next trip, the most help I can expect will be coaching?
"Kick harder Brad. You're lookin more like Marilyn Bell with every stroke."


Just picked up my first alcohol stove today. https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5011-311/Titanium-Triad-Stove
Cooking experiments start on the first trip this year.

 

[martin2007]

re: consequences of falling out of canoe with chest waders on

Decades ago, wide-eyed innocent that I was__I hadn't yet heard of Pierre Berton's famous quip about a Canadian being someone who could make love in a canoe"!__green, dumb, but much more loveable than now__ found me on beaver ponds somewhere in the B.C rockies fishing for cutthroats. Flyfishing. In a beamy old 14' fibreglass loaner canoe. With my brother. Both of us decked out in full old-school cheapest-available rubber chest (not hip!) waders. Paddling rapidly towards promising deep pools 100 meters or more from shore. Eager. No team play here, just eager to get MY line on the water first. Danger? What danger? And yet, throughout my short young life, I'd often imagined the possible consequences of a swim in chest waders and had assumed that a swim would be fatal. Obviously, you'd be sucked to the bottom, cement-feet style. Funny how those images didn't come to me in the canoe that day in our frantic pursuit of trout.
Well, we began casting. For those of you who have never fly-fished, it does require more "physicality" than spin-fishing. Plenty of lashing the water to a frothy boil, and even more so because of youthful eagerness, impatience, well... trout lust.
I believe I was the first to stand. I wasn't getting my fly out as far as I wanted. What was I to do? Standing, I could false-cast a metre or two further than from my previous, clearly inferior, seated position. My brother's a good guy, but he was not so generous as to allow me that much of a casting advantage. He stood, too. We both stood, eagerly whipping up the surface of the water, every tendon of our bodies ready to respond to the first inevitable strike. Amazingly, we maintained our position for what must have been close to a minute.
This led to a surprising discovery. Huge, old-style rubber chest waders, rather than dragging you down into the cold depths, actually filled up with water and floated us up to the surface. And this, without aid of PFD, as we hadn't yet discovered back then the myriad advantages to those bothersome things. I believe we executed our first-ever swimming re-entry into an unswamped canoe. No, the canoe stayed upright and we had literally "flown" outwards and overboard at opposite ends and opposite sides of the canoe. A feat seldom imitated and never duplicated.

 

[Odyssey]

So that's how synchronized swimming got started? Two fly fishing brothers? lol
(Good you made it home okay.)

 

[martin2007]

Yes, Odyssey, but it also brings to mind Conrad's oft-quoted, but now somewhat clichéd line from "Dark-Hearted Flyfisherman" : "The symmetry, the symmetry!"

 

[martin2007]

Odyssey, nice-looking stove, too, and incredibly light! Seems sad, though, to waste alcohol like that. I suppose it's not as bad as those misguided souls who smash full unopened bottles of champagne against the hulls of brand new ocean liners. Now THAT's wasteful!

 

[Canotrouge]

Sooo what you're saying is, if I take an unscheduled swim on our next trip, the most help I can expect will be coaching?
"Kick harder Brad. You're lookin more like Marilyn Bell with every stroke."


Just picked up my first alcohol stove today. https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5011-311/Titanium-Triad-Stove
Cooking experiments start on the first trip this year.

I use to have one of those.... Never been happy with them and went back with he trangia... I can't wait to hear what you think about it!!

 

[Canotrouge]

I can't say I never slipped with bean boots but there not too bad. I thought they wore down pretty quick, especially since I use them mostly on soft dirt as opposed to concrete. It could be the result of carrying heavy weight and climbing hills. I did notice that after being resoled (replacing rubber bottoms) they were not as waterproof, with a trickle coming in the old thread holes. It's not bad enough to be a deal breaker for me and my feet never got uncomfortable and usually dried out on their own. They never got to the point that I felt like I needed to change my socks.


I used to wear Xtra Tuff rubber boots and they are comfortable enough to wear all day(sometimes I wear them at work all day). I would wear them again especially if I was expecting very wet conditions. One time I had to do some wading in cold temps and I duck taped my rubber rain pants around the boots and it worked surprizingly well.

I love my bean boots, never had a problem with them!! Really confortable and not slippery at all... I use to wear Xtra tuff a lot, but not since my last pair died and that they are not available anymore( they are still available but are made in China now and the quality is rally bad) So I don't know what I will get as a pair of rubber boots next!

 

[Guest]

On our shopping list this spring are pairs of neoprene socks. The booties look interesting as well. But for the time being I'd like to have the extra warm and dry protection of n socks inside whatever else I slip into.

My el cheapo water shoe combination for some years was neoprene socks or booties inside one-size-too-large big box $10 velcro tennis shoes.

The neoprene did a sucky job of keeping my feet warm and dry. My feet sweat, and the unbreathable neoprene served mostly to trap a layer of moisture between the booties and my feet, which in cooler temps was a layer of cold moisture.

The best cold weather solution I have found is a pair or Smartwool or other thin wool liner socks, under a pair of Sealskinz, inside a one-size-larger pair of Mukluks.

My feet still sweat, but the moisture is trapped between the Sealskinz and Mukluks and the wool socks, while my feet stay warm and dry. Something like these I guess, although at the time I think Sealskinz offered but one type of breathable waterproof sock.

https://www.sealskinz.com/US/socks/h...ack-anthracite

I have a single pair of actual Sealskinz socks; years ago a friend found (unused) military surplus Sealskinz for something like $10 a pair and I bought several of those (my sons have their dad’s size 12 feet). They are identical to the original Sealskins.

One foot note (ha ha): I wear size 12 shoes and boots and finding size 13 Mukluks was a challenge. With wool socks and Sealskinz layering I need to wear size 13 Mukluks. I could probably stuff my feet into a size 12, but without some uncompressed air gap space my feet, while dry, would still be cold.