Gasketed “waterproof” container leak test

[Guest]

Another watery shop experiment.

While I was in leaky container detection mode I tried another stupid shop experiment, filling any and all various designed “waterproof” containers. Gasketed screw top pails and buckets, blue barrels, pelican boxes.

the results so far have been surprising. Or startling.

We have a variety of screw-top gasket sealed pails and buckets, not Gamma Seals but containers that held laboratory chemicals. I really doubt that they are leak proof. I know they are not odor proof; when used for food storage some of the screw-on lids have been rodent nibbled.

What the heck, let’s see if they leak.

5 gallon screw-top gasket sealed bucket with ratcheting lid. Add 2 gallons of water, screw the lid down as tight as possible, turn it upside down. I expected water to dang near pour out of the bucket. An hour later, still not a drop, so I tried resting the bucket on its side.







Nary a drop. They may be more odor proof than I thought. The lid nibbleage was always at established sites, where the squirrels and chipmunks are more habituated to container equals food start chewing.

That was surprising. Note: I screwed the lid down so tight I had to tap it with a hammer to get it started back off.

I might as well keep going. 2 gallon pail, 2.5 gallon squat bucket, both filled half way with water. Upside down, no leaks. Sideways, no leaks. I know this is a very gentle test, and the buckets are not crashing down some rocky rapid, but I kept walking out to the shop expecting to see at least a few drips. I’m now more amazed than surprised.







I am really, really glad the squat 2.5 gallon didn’t leak. Those are my favorite small barrels. They somehow appear to be smaller than the 2 gallon pail shape and pack much better, especially in a decked canoe.

I shaved off three of the four handles on the lid of that squat bucket and tied on some cord loops for helping screwing off the lid. The top of the lid on that bucket is concave, slippery and awkward to rest anything on, so I added a leveling disk of exercise flooring. The little indents in the exercise flooring foam lid are for the feet of a JetBoil stove. Which fits nicely inside, even with the slightly concave lid.





Well, heck, I guess I really oughta try the beloved blue barrels.

I am sure they will be fine. . . . Son of a bi . . . . The 30L barrel didn’t drip, it poured water out. The lid and gasket seem fine. The ring on the 30L has always been much easier to snap closed than our 60L barrel. I guess, on reflection, perhaps suspiciously easier.

You know what that means, time to test the 60L barrel. I replaced the original warped ring on the 60L a few years back. Come on 60L, daddy needs some dry place to store food.

Dry as a bone.





In for a penny, in for a pound. What else can I leak test? The Mil-spec Pelican box. I rested it on all four sides, just to be sure. Bone dry. Black is not a great gear color for recovering things floating away, or even finding them in camp at night. Hence the odd scraps of leftover reflective tape stuck on every side.





It sucks to discover that the container I like(d) and used the most, the 30L barrel, leaks like a sieve. But it was better to find out with a wet shop floor than with packs of sodden oatmeal on day 2.

I’m guessing I need a new 30L snap ring. I don’t remember where I bought the replacement ring for the 60L. Anyone have a source for a blue barrel rings or parts?

Oh, yeah, you think that blue barrel, bucket or box is waterproof. Want to find out now, or later?

I won’t take the 30L again until I replace the ring and test it again.

 

[Grandpa Paddler]

Google "Harmony Gear"

 

[scoutergriz]

It's quite possible that the gasket is chewed up, sand or grit can do a real number on it. Carefully pull out the gasket and look for nicks or cuts. you might be able to clean it up enough to work, what I did was spray the groove with some silicone lube, clean the gasket well with a quick drying solvent (I used acetone) wipe a little bit of silicone sealant on the damaged side (I used ultra blue- it was in the garage), re-install the ring- sealant down, close the barrel up over night, and check it in the morning. you'll need to air out the barrel and wipe out the lube, but, hopefully the sealant will have filled any nicks or gouges.
I did this maybe 10 years ago on my 60l and it's still holding tight- as a matter of fact, a couple of years ago, we had a sharp temperature drop over night and it took two of us to get the lid off in the morning.

 

[pblanc]

I have occasionally seen metal locking bands for blue barrels listed for sale on ebay.

A source for relatively inexpensive 30 and 60 liter barrels is US Plastic. Their barrels are a bit different and might take some getting used to. The barrels have a rectangular cross section which allows them to fit into packs better and keeps them from rolling around in the bottom of the canoe. The handles are molded in. The do not have the plastic swing out handles. The biggest difference is the cover and locking band. The covers have a serrated edge that snaps over the top of the barrel. The locking band is much thinner and lighter and closes around the serrations. From a waterproof seal standpoint I think the system works as well as that used on the more common blue barrels but the serrations on the cover are initially rather sharp and can cause scratches if one is not careful when closing the lid. After a while, the sharp edges of the serrations seem to take care of themselves.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Basic flaw in waterproof tests.

The barrels also have a gasket in the lid. Water pressure from outside pushed down on the gasket hereby sealing it. Water inside the barrel pushing down is pushing the gasket away from the barrel not onto it. Gravity is the main force along with the weight of water

Water pressure is directed differently.
\
You need a lake.

Physics counts.

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

The hydrostatic head from the water inside the barrel will be very small, to my mind not enough to push the o-ring away from the neck of the barrel. For that matter same thing could be said of an immersed bag or barrel.

If it leaks there is a hole/gap in the closure. Creases in the folds of dry bags are the big thing though on a hot day they can also "inhale" through the seal when they get dunked in cold water. For barrels I have had some that leaked from new as the rubber ring was just no good but usually it is dirt under the seal so no matter how good the clamping ring the leak.

Watershed dry bags. I have two. They work. Fill them with air and you can bounce them like a ball.

 

[Guest]

It's quite possible that the gasket is chewed up
a couple of years ago, we had a sharp temperature drop over night and it took two of us to get the lid off in the morning.

I checked the gaskets and rechecked the one on the 30L after it poured water. I am convinced that the tension needed to close the ring is insufficient. Anecdotally, my wife asks me to close the 60L barrel; for comparison I can close the ring on the 30L with just my pinkie.

Other signs I might have recognized. The 60L sometimes pulls a hard-to-get-the-lid-off vacuum, and makes a distinct shwoomp when finally opened. On a trip through elevation changes in the Rockies the 60L decompressed so much one side of the barrel sucked in. Neither has ever happened with the 30L.

Basic flaw in waterproof tests.


You need a lake.

Basic flaw in your assumption. The 30L poured water like I was filling a coffee mug from a 20 cup urn.

I don’t have a lake, but I do have a nice trout stream a few miles away. I’ll take the 30L out tomorrow, loaded with some weight so I can hold it submerged. Care for a wager?

I bet it will stream air like an aquarium bubbler.

Edit: Of course I know the barrel has a gasket. Everything I tested has a gasket. If it was simply water pressure “pushing down on the gasket” I am at a loss as to why the two buckets, wide mouth drum and 60L barrel did not leak a drop.

 

[yellowcanoe]

if it leaked going out does not mean it leaks going in. An easier test for me is to put the barrel in the sun.. Close the lid.. Hope it does not explode. Then try to pry the lid off the next morning when its 40 degrees. The suction is sometimes impressive.

If your gasket is thin it sure wont hold outgoing water. It may hold incoming water if its not totally flattened and lacks compressibility..
Not disputing your results but the methodology needs refinement.
I have to pack for a canoe trip and pay attention to Griz roll method.. That is of great interest to me.

Also I have to test each individual dry bag for eligibility for the "outdoor shower" list. They get pinholes alas.

The blue barrels and their clamps do warp. We have one that defies sealing and now is a sand repository.sd

Thinking more about it completely barrels float on the water. so water pressure might have little to do with it. Sea surface temp might though make things clamp down on gaskets. I know that when I jump in the Gulf of Maine I pee. Things contract. Guys know this.er.r

So far six dry bags contain the water, Its always good to know that the mice have not had their way.

Griz that fold is a great easy thing to do.. I've been guilty of the almost three folds from overfilli and the spiral effect.

 

[Guest]

I don’t have a lake, but I do have a nice trout stream a few miles away. I’ll take the 30L out tomorrow, loaded with some weight so I can hold it submerged. Care for a wager?

Well that was comical. I took the weighted 30L barrel down to a deep pool on the Gunpowder Falls. Of course I picked a pool adjacent to a bridge for convenience. The Gunpowder is a popular river, so I had plenty of witnesses to me bobbing around with a partially submerged blue barrel.

That is some cold dang fed water and fortunately it was a hot day. The phrase “Like watching a monkey try to screw a football” came to mind. A couple of people asked what I was doing and when I explained one suggested I could have just put some water in the barrel and checked for leaks. Yeah, thanks for that.

It leaks. When floating it doesn’t leak as fast if the lid end is at the surface. But even so the more it leaked the lower it would float.

Flipped upside down with the weight shifted near the lid it leaks badly. No air bubbles since part of the lid was still out of the water, but opening the barrel ashore showed that it had take on water.

I don’t know if the exercise flooring foam glued to the lid helped as end floatation, but left to its own devices the barrel wanted to float / with the lid near the surface.

I waded back in and held (rode) the barrel completely submerged. Not easy to do, like watching a monkey. . . . . It streamed bubbles and leaked badly.

The hydrostatic head from the water inside the barrel will be very small, to my mind not enough to push the o-ring away from the neck of the barrel.

In the shop test there were at most a couple gallons of water in the 30L (8 gallon) barrel. I doubt the pressure on the gasket had much impact on the leakage.

BTW, if you wade out to perform a barrel riding leak test remember to bring a change of dry clothes.

I need find a replacement 30L ring first and try that. Maybe a new 30L gasket too, just in case.

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

Recreational Barrel Works sell spare parts, $20 each for a lid or a ring. They are in Canada so may not be good for you.

 

[Alan Gage]

I don't have time to do a search now but I remember last year someone on bwca.com was looking for a barrel lid and I think they came up with a source. Might try a search over there.

Alan

 

[southcove]

BTW, if you wade out to perform a barrel riding leak test remember to bring a change of dry clothes.

I think perhaps one of the best photo opps (by a CT forum member) I can think of recently was just missed big time! "Like a monkey screwing a football..."

(thank you though for doing all the testing work)

 

[Guest]

I think perhaps one of the best photo opps (by a CT forum member) I can think of recently was just missed big time! "Like a monkey screwing a football..."

I can not take credit for that memorable quote. That is a “Doug-ism”, muttered by one of the owners of Blue Mountain Canoe while shaking his head as he watched a shop employee try to wrestle a fully outfitted whitewater canoe open-side-out into a vertical display rack.

I have appropriated that descriptive phrase a time or two when comedic developments demanded. Somewhere in the BMO newsletter archives I think there is a collection of Doug-isms.

http://www.bluemountainoutfitters.net/Sec/newsletter.html

I did wish I had brought one of my sons along to video me barrel riding in the fully submerged tests. Hey, it’s not that easy.

The opportunity remains. If you haven’t leak tested your blue barrel and find yourself camped on a lake on a warm sunny day it is like a big blue bull riding machine, except no one is throwing empty Bud Light cans at you. Well, maybe Memaquay.

Next warm summer lake camp, Freestyle Barrel Races. YEEHAW!