I worked on some gouges on my canoe and found G/Flex to be pretty runny. I remember you mentioned adding some powder to thicken it but West Marine only carries a black product. Any advice?
-
Happy National Garlic Day! 🧄🚫🧛🏼♂️
G/Flex
- Thread starter Sweetfancymoses
- Start date
Thanks Glenn. The silica is white in color. Is there a dye to match the color of the canoe?
I assume the color could be changed by some sort of color agent, but am not sure what you would mix in to do that. The Iinked article talks about mixing in sawdust to match color, but that assumes you are filling in a wood surface. Someone else here with more epoxy experience perhaps knows what dye to use. I know makers of skin coat composite boats mix some kind of dye into their resin to get different boat colors.
Are you talking a composite or plastic boat? Maybe you could fill with thickened G/Flex, harden, sand, and then blend in a matching paint or gel coat color over the hardened patch.
Are you talking a composite or plastic boat? Maybe you could fill with thickened G/Flex, harden, sand, and then blend in a matching paint or gel coat color over the hardened patch.
G
Guest
Guest
I use color agents in epoxy with enough regularity to dang near have a full Roy G Biv selection of pigment tubes. That stuff ain’t cheap, but a dab half the size of a pencil eraser will color an ounce of epoxy; be judicious if making very small batches.
https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...ct-detail/7886
But, pigments added to epoxy alone will not produce much depth of color, it is the pigmented epoxy saturating the cloth that takes on the color.
I use West System 406 Colloidal Silica or 403 Microfibers to thicken epoxy, including G/flex; the slurry comes out milky white. I sometimes have added graphite powder and black pigment, which produces a very black black, but that may be more the graphite powder than the pigment.
I have not (yet) color agent pigmented thickened epoxy and would like to know. If you opt to try a thickener, silica or microfibers, in a pigmented epoxy I’d be curious about how much color it takes on.
Those thickener aren’t cheap either; I’d buy the smallest quantity possible.
Of course getting a perfect, or even close, color match with pigmented epoxy may be the real challenge, and Glenn’s “Paint over it” using little dabs and spots of red-on-red or green-on-green paint may be the easiest solution
G/flex is thicker than 105/206, but thickened or un-thickened, there are a few simple tricks that help keep epoxy contained. The more horizontal the divot or gouge is positioned the better, which sometimes means staging the hull at odd angles, and not filling all the dings at once.
Beyond, or actually best-practices in addition to that, that you can make a little coffer dam; I use painter’s tape around the perimeter of a to-be-filled gouge or divot, but curl the outside edges of the tape up (___) to help prevent the epoxy from running away.
Just pull the tape one the epoxy is firm enough not to run or sag; leave your mixing cup and teeny 30 each for 97 cents Walmart craft aisle brush out on the bench to test for epoxy firmness.
If it is a too-tall pimple you can sand or file it flush later.
This might be just the ticket. I'm cheap but I have time on my hand.
G
Guest
Guest
Serendipitously I had need today to mix up a small batch of G/flex for several different purposes. “Several purposes” mostly because I hate wasting epoxy, especially pricier G/flex, and it is more difficult to mix teeny weeny pencil eraser sized batches, so doing several things at once with a more thimble-sized batch is the waste-not rule.
First mix; drip-dab filling a drilled hole with straight G/flex on project #1. Un-pigmented G/flex at any depth of epoxy is honey colored, which in that application was preferable.
Next, a dab of black pigment added to that same G/flex pot for project #2. Probably more pigment than recommended by volume; it was hard to squeeze out such a tiny wee amount. The G/flex & pigment mix, stirred in the pot, was deep black, but still went on kinda see-though smearybleary in the thinner areas.
Finally, the remainder of the now-black pigmented pot with a tiny bit of Colloidal Silica mixed in, probably less silica than the recommended max by volume, on project #3. Like pigmented epoxy on fiberglass that mix laid out opaque black, even in the thinner areas, and of course thickened was less runny drippy. I’d guess the silica helped to take up, or at least better distribute, the pigment in that regard.
I know that pigmented epoxy fully impregnates a variety of fabrics with color, including E-glass, S-glass, Dynel, woven kevlar and even (ugh) kevlar felt. I’m guessing at least some of the available thickeners act much like cloth in pigment impregnated epoxy “puddle” performance.
Try saying “Pigment impregnated epoxy puddle performance” three times fast. Good, you can now sell sea shells by the seashore.
Someone can now try that experiment with pigmented West 105/206, G/flex and Vinylester epoxies, using 406 Silica, 403 Microfibers and other high density/low density, filleting blend, microlight and etc thickener products.
Someone else. Not me said the little red hen.
This is why I like the 655 Thickened G/flex
https://www.westsystem.com/specialty-epoxies/gflex-655-thickened-epoxy-adhesive/
It doesn't run at all and you can easily mix up a TINY amount as both parts are the consistency of toothpaste.
The one downside for larger job like skid plates is that it can be hard to wet out some fabrics, 4oz s-glass is fine but Dynel is difficult to get fully saturated and I would guess that kevlar felt would be even more difficult.
https://www.westsystem.com/specialty-epoxies/gflex-655-thickened-epoxy-adhesive/
It doesn't run at all and you can easily mix up a TINY amount as both parts are the consistency of toothpaste.
The one downside for larger job like skid plates is that it can be hard to wet out some fabrics, 4oz s-glass is fine but Dynel is difficult to get fully saturated and I would guess that kevlar felt would be even more difficult.
G
Guest
Guest
Cool beans. I have never used any 655, and had no idea it had that consistency. That toothpaste-icity would be ideal in some applications, and probably replace same-gooeyness JB Weld. Although not PC-7 epoxy putty; that stuff is perfect for molding and holding shape.
I use the hell out of 650. Enough to now buy the 16oz containers. Repeatedly. With large quantity containers it is Scot’s frugal psychologically easier, and maybe a little less pricey, to add the 650 to a pot of West 105/206, plus whatever pigment or additive I choose.
For wetting out something like a skid-plate, whether using multi-layer S-glass, Twaron or Dynel sleeve, previous experiments have shown that having some fluidity to the epoxy mix helps better impregnated the fabric.
The worst-of-the-worst result was provided by this experiment, no thick G/flex or graphite powder slurry added to the mix, but using Fast Cure 205 hardener, and no peel ply compression; just thickly coated both sides with pigmented epoxy for visible color depth impregnation and left unmolested.
Samples cured and cut in half for inspection showed that the pigmented epoxy, even without any thickeners or additives, never fully penetrated the fabric.
https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...561#post102561
Repeated hand, or better hard-roller compression, under release treated peel ply helps in that full impregnation with any fabric.
I’ve kind of settled in around 60%-70% West System 105/205, and 40%-30% 650 G/flex for skid plates. Bottom coat pigmented only, top coat maybe with a touch more G/flex 650, pigmented and graphite powdered for a needs-to-be-tough exterior skin.
When I built one of those aerolight geodesic canoe things part of the kit came with this really nice two part epoxy (Superbond) that was the consistency of vaseline. It was a 1:1 mix so easy to eyeball. It was very nice to work with and I enjoyed not having to use fillers. Always meant to order more for shop use but never did.
This is the stuff: https://www.fgci.com/item/135363/Superbond-Epoxy-Standard-EA-089A-B1-2-Pint-Kit-Tubs/
If you look at their catalog you'll find you can buy the resin and hardeners separately, which lets you choose between fast/slow hardeners: https://www.fgci.com/products/44/Resins-Polyester-Vinylester-Epoxy/&Brand=Epoxy&Size=Pint
Alan
This is the stuff: https://www.fgci.com/item/135363/Superbond-Epoxy-Standard-EA-089A-B1-2-Pint-Kit-Tubs/
If you look at their catalog you'll find you can buy the resin and hardeners separately, which lets you choose between fast/slow hardeners: https://www.fgci.com/products/44/Resins-Polyester-Vinylester-Epoxy/&Brand=Epoxy&Size=Pint
Alan
Yes, the thickened stuff is great for small repairs. It is just thick enough to not sag and cures with a nice smooth surface, unlike when i use additives with other epoxy. I have both types of gflex at home.
mark
Ok, I'll put in a plug for West Six10 thickened epoxy. This is a two part epoxy comes out of a tube that is sized to fit in a regular caulk gun. There are two separate chambers inside the tube for the resin and the hardener and they somehow mix inside the nozzle while being dispensed (self metering/self-mixing). I've used it and can attest you can lay down a bead of thickened epoxy as easy as caulking the tub. But if the epoxy is worked, it starts to thin and if worked enough will wet out fabrics. The nozzle is tossed when you are done, the tube is capped with a special plug and, unlike caulk tubes, it doesn't dry out or harden inside the tube. https://www.westsystem.com/specialty...poxy-adhesive/
G
Guest
Guest
Advice taken, I got me some. The squeeze tube aspect is a little worrisome regarding how well it stores once opened. Once opened those two tubes are definitely getting toothpaste tube squeeze keys.
https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...-squeeze-tubes
It may be a while before I open the tubes of 655, I don’t have a project that needs thickened epoxy right now, but it is always good to have the right epoxy on hand for the job.
Another G/flex-ish (same 1:1 mix, viscosity and odor) I keep in the shop is G/5
https://www.westsystem.com/specialty...nute-adhesive/
A friend gave me a set of 4oz bottles of G/5, mistakenly ordered thinking it was 650.
“Not recommended for long-term bonds subject to high loads or moisture. It can be modified with WEST SYSTEM fillers”. I said thanks, but kinda wondered where the hell I might ever use it.
On all kinds of things. Any household repair that isn’t in the sink or shower. Boatwork too; used in spot applications when I just need a piece firmly held in place before covering with cloth and epoxy. If I’m at the stage where I’m ready to mix epoxy and lay cloth it is more convenient to emplace something and then wait 5 minutes, rather than wait 5 hours.
“What the hell would I use that for?” I’m on my second set of 4oz bottles, and I never mix it with anything.
The mix-ability of 650 “toughened” G/flex, in any ratio, with regular West 105/205, 206, etc, makes it my go-to resin when I want improved ruggedness and flexibility without resorting to a pot of full-strength G/flex. When wetting out thicker materials or two-layer Dynel sleeve a less viscous mix, even a 50/50 ratio, better penetrates/saturates the full depth of the material.
I can see where auto-mixed, self-metered caulk gun application of thickened epoxy could be advantageous.
That auto-mixed/metered mechanism reminds me of a metered syringe adhesive I used years (eh, decades) ago, 3M EXP 8000 or something like that. It was, at the time, one of the few adhesives recommended for Poly boats.
It required an epoxy applicator that looked like a device Scotty would use to repair the warp drive, or glue Worf in place. Someone explain that reference to Michael ;-)
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b49000223/
The A & B parts came as loaded adhesive cartridge “syringes” that snapped into the gun’s dual chambers. The “gun” alone was pricey. A single-use applicator mixing nozzle, with an interior mixing helix, a wide plastic “spring”, attached to the gun.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_LB/p/d/v000056666/
It was complex as hell, and expensive, but it worked, even for repairing poly boats or attaching D-rings to a Disco.
If anyone uses that (now in a variety) 3M “structural adhesive” I have the applicator gun and two unused nozzles, still in the box.
Freebies taking up space, if anyone wants them; I know I’ll never use them again. Thank gawd for G/flex.
I had a set of tubes that I was going through very slowly (think a couple of years at least), when I was near the end of the contents one of the caps was hard to open, after much twisting the cap AND the thread came off in one piece. I replaced the cap with some tape, a few months later I used the last of the contents, still worked fine but suggest not using too much brute force opening and don't over tighten the caps when putting them back on.
FYI - I have received your subliminal messages and will respond VERY SOON, my sincere apologies for neglecting to do as I promised, I live in fear of not being able to achieve the clarity and great detail provided by the "McCrea Standard"
G
Guest
Guest
I have received your subliminal messages and will respond VERY SOON, my sincere apologies for neglecting to do as I promised, I live in fear of not being able to achieve the clarity and great detail provided by the "McCrea Standard"
Meeting the “McCrea Standard” has exacting requirements.
I recommend having a couple high ABV beers, and a toke if you are of such a mind set, and then blathering on for thousands of words, with accompanying photos.
I'll pass on the "Tool of Satan" (beer) and stick with the "food of the gods", I already have well developed blathering skills!
Unfortunately procrastination is my most highly developed skill! (other than smashing into rocks of course).
Unfortunately procrastination is my most highly developed skill! (other than smashing into rocks of course).
G
Guest
Guest
I’ve had similar issues re-opening a number of squeeze-tube adhesives and sealants, needing to use a pair of pliers to twist off the cap, sometimes mangling the threads or putting some much fisted torque on the tube that I bent it into a pretzel.
Never thought about a preventive measure before. How about running a layer of plumbing Teflon tape around the threads before screwing the cap back on?
