Ford confirms Ranger, Bronco, will return 2019

[yellowcanoe]

I loved my 2000 Tundra.. Now that model is so bloated it won't fit in the garage..Almost got a Tacoma in 2012 but it was hard to see over the hood and kind of cramped. We wound up with a Ridgeline which is kind of an odd cross between truck and car but it does fine on the Maine woods roads. And it pulls the trailer OK. Wish it was geared a little lower but...
It should be 10 years before the search for a truck is needed again.. (fingers and everything crossed)
Our Tundra with the V8 did fine on the highway.. We never drive much in cities. It got 22 mph.. The Ridgeline gets 19.

 

[Will Derness]

The domestic manufacturer's are lost as far as I'm concerned. There might be a couple decent vehicles in their lineups but overall, year after year, I'm unimpressed by their gimickiness, poor quality, and lack of reliability.

As far as the major players we see on a regular basis Toyota really seems to have it figured out.

My feelings exactly. Back in the 80s when domestic manufacturers where working on catching up with foreign completion Ford started a marketing campaign that claimed "Quality is Job 1" I bought a Ford Ranger. While it had annoying minor failures that I wouldn't have expected from a foreign vehicle, it's drive train was solid and reliable.

Feeling some patriotism and confidence Detroit had turned it around in the 90s, I bought a Mustang and Windstar van. "Quality" was still "Job 1" according to their marketing department. Someone forgot to pass that down to manufacturing.

Same engine in the Mustang and Windstar. Shortly after the 3 year warranty both vehicles had the engine front gaskets fail at around 60K (covers the water pump and timing belt). I'm religious about scheduled maintenance and never had either engine overheat, so this was a manufacturing defect. Yes, it was out of warranty, but this not something that should happen to a properly built vehicle - would you expect the steering wheel to break in half at 60K?



Phone calls and letters fell on deaf ears at Ford despite their claims on quality manufacturing. Cost me about $4,000 get them fixed, including a faulty repair on the Windstar that resulted in engine failure and replacement. My last letter to Ford told them these cars would be last Fords in my driveway and I would continue to share this story until I leave this life.

I have a Tacoma today and am quite happy with it and its build quality. I'm sure I could have purchased a Ford for less initially, but at the risk of premature failure and left dealing with a company who really doesn't care about standing behind their products.

Low price doesn't mean low cost. Ford (Fix or Repair Daily / Found on Road Dead)

 

[snapper]

I have to agree with Alan's comments about purchasing a Toyota. I purchased a Dodge Dakota new that qualified for NYS' lemon law within 60 days of purchase. It was replaced by a Chevy S-10 that crapped out after less than 3 years with only 42,000 miles on it. From that point on I've been driving a Tacoma; I'm now on my second one. The first one lasted 10 years and I was given within $500.00 of the high book value on a trade-in. My current Tacoma, like the previous one, is a 4 cyl., 2 wd, 5 spd manual with an access cab; i.e. nothing fancy. I have put a cap over the bed as I need to sleep/travel a lot during the summer months so it's my home away from home. I've traveled throughout upstate NY, VT and other parts of New England over the last 12 years with 4-5 bags of tube sand in the back and haven't gotten stuck. Of course, second gear is my friend and I drive with caution and four good snow tires. All in all, it's all I've ever needed and what I like the best at this point.

My one perk in this truck? I got rid of the Toyota sound system and all the crap that came with it and traded it out for an AM/FM/satellite radio with a CD player. It's all I'll ever need. No GPS or other electronic do dads to give me trouble down the road.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

 

[frozentripper]

Alan,

When people come into the shop asking what we recommend for a vehicle we tell them to just go buy something from Toyota. They're next question is what about the Chevy, Ford, Chrsyler model whatever. To which we respond go buy a Toyota.

I agree to some extent that Toyota is a reliable brand, but being a numbers guy, crunching numbers for far too long in a previous life until I satrted seeing triple it seems, I have to ask why has the Ford F-150 been the top-selling truck and vehicle in America for so long... for something like 30-40 years now, the F-150 gets more loyalty and repeat buyers than anything else. There must be a reason.. if reliability was poor, the loyalty wouldn't be there, buyers would switch to something else rather than buy a poor product. Maybe the return on money being spent, return on investment, is good compared to other brands, more bang for the buck?

IIRC, in 2010 JD Powers (?) ranked the Ford Ranger in the top three light trucks that year, and that was one of the reasons I bought, along with other features, like narrow body, comfortable fit and a time -tested design (Ford hadn't changed the basic Ranger design for many years which may have been the thing that added to reliability... they worked the bugs out, while the newer models had their teething problems).

Production stopped 2011, so there are no ratings after that. Overall reliability ratings might have their problems, with infotainment now being included with engines and transmissions and everything else... maybe the sales numbers will be the thing that indicates... something... whatever it is that buyers want to see. Something tells me that self-driving vehicles are coming and all that drivers will need to be doing is enjoying their infotainment while on the road. Anyway, we see...

 

[dogbrain]

Toyotas and Subarus for us from now on. My last GMC pickup was a total lemon. Replaced engine, transmission, rear axles, etc. before it had 100k on it, and I am really nice to my vehicles. My last subaru had 260k and I still got $900 for it when sold. I use a lot of domestic trucks for work and most have been rattle traps, poor mileage, poor worksmanship etc. Ford might be highest on the list of domestic trucks, but even though they may be dependable, they were tin cans. I was caught in a hail storm in Colorado in 2007. My ford truck came out looking like the surface of a golf ball. My friend in a subaru outback, right behind me, had a hard time finding more than a couple of dings in the metal.

Mark

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Alan,



I agree to some extent that Toyota is a reliable brand, but being a numbers guy, crunching numbers for far too long in a previous life until I satrted seeing triple it seems, I have to ask why has the Ford F-150 been the top-selling truck and vehicle in America for so long... for something like 30-40 years now, the F-150 gets more loyalty and repeat buyers than anything else. There must be a reason....

I did a stint with a 91 F150 in between Troopers. It had the 5.0 v8 (what we used to know as a 302) and E4od transmission. That engine was derived from the 289 that was so common in the early Mustangs (such as my 65 Pony edition that I stupidlysold). I never had a lick of trouble from the Mustang or the F150, even though both saw hard use. The 98 5.0 v8 Explorer had the same engine and transmission that my F150 had. That was the deliberate result of a fairly long search of the used market. That's a little history of why the F150 is so popular, although the current rendition has little in common with any of these. BTW, if an Explorer fits your needs, the second generation model was the best of the bunch, IMO, and the 5.0 v8 AWD version is the most reliable, according to my research and my experience. The current Explorers are a bad joke by comparison.

 

[Guest]

Have they solved the Tacoma terrible frame rust problem? I heard they have replaced some under warranty. That was the deal breaker for me as I live in the rust belt. My 2004 ranger with a new economical gas engine would be perfect. F-150s at just too tall for loading and too big to go where I go.
Turtle

 

[Alan Gage]

Alan,



I agree to some extent that Toyota is a reliable brand, but being a numbers guy, crunching numbers for far too long in a previous life until I satrted seeing triple it seems, I have to ask why has the Ford F-150 been the top-selling truck and vehicle in America for so long... for something like 30-40 years now, the F-150 gets more loyalty and repeat buyers than anything else. There must be a reason.. if reliability was poor, the loyalty wouldn't be there, buyers would switch to something else rather than buy a poor product. Maybe the return on money being spent, return on investment, is good compared to other brands, more bang for the buck?

That's a good question. I think it's probably a combination of marketing, momentum (people don't change easily) and the fact that they do build a pretty solid truck when compared with the competition, especially when you get to 3/4 ton and heavier.

I'd guess the majority of new car and truck buyers don't keep the vehicle for more than 100,000 before trading it off. 100,000 miles is nothing. Virtually anything can go 100,000 miles with little to no maintenance or major failures; especially considering how quickly people rack up miles anymore. So when it comes time to buy a new vehicle they have no reason to choose something different.

As an independent repair shop we're more commonly working on vehicles that someone buys used with 50,000-100,000 miles and expects to last to 200,000 and beyond. This seems to be where we see the difference. I'd never buy a used Ford truck with a 5.4 or a used Chevy with a 5.3, which were there bread and butter engines. The Fords are dependent on high oil pressure at idle to control the cam phasers. Once it drops below 25psi, which they do a lot, they idle terrible and stall. The fix is an $8000 engine job which involves pulling the cab. The 5.3 from GM burns oil and fouls cylinders due to poor execution of their cylinder deactivation system. The fix is new piston rings. Google either of these problems and you'll see no end to people who have experienced them. The GMs were starting to burn oil with as low as 30-40,000 miles. This was an ongoing problem for both manufacturers for years with no design changes. They never issued a recall and never will.

In the mid to late 90's GM had a design flaw with their 3800 engine. The EGR tube was too big of a diameter and it would melt through a water jacket in the plastic intake manifold. If you're lucky you'd notice the coolant level dropping and bring it into the shop. If you weren't lucky it would fail suddenly and the engine would hydrolock as it ingested all that coolant, often damaging the engine beyond repair. This engine was in GMs best vehicles driven by their best customers; the Lesabre, Bonneville, Park Ave, etc. They issued a service bulletin notifying repair shops there was an issue and what to look for in case of mysterious coolant loss. Never did they tell their dealers to repair these as preventative maintenance. To inspect and see if there was an issue before hand.

We did. We had a lot of customers with these vehicles and we fixed nearly all of them BEFORE they failed. Never did we pull one apart, even with 60,000 miles, that the plastic wasn't already beginning to melt and fail. We've heard from many people who didn't heed our advice or who came to us after getting fed up at the dealer and had this problem occur half way across the country on a family vacation. This wasn't a problem that affected a certain percentage of the vehicles. It affected 100% of them for about 4-5 years. GM never recalled these.

At the same time GM vehicles were melting through the intake manifold and ruining engines Toyota was having problems with head gaskets on their V6 engines. They issued a recall on the problem. If you had an affected Toyota with 150,000 miles on it the dealer would replace your head gaskets for free.

Brake lines. Goodness do we ever replace a lot of brake lines. We buy it in bulk 500' at a time. It's a miserable job. GM is by far the worst offender. Ford is better but still not good. We do them all the time. I think I can count on both hands the number of import vehicles we've had to replace brake lines on. For a few $ per vehicle the domestics could invest in a non-rusting line material or an effective coating but they don't. The import manufacturers do.

I could go on and on but it's differences like these that push us to recommend Toyota. They really seem like they want to build a quality vehicle and take care of the ones they've already sold; in contrast to the domestics who keep pushing big, fast, and flashy at the cost of quality.

I'll also admit that we're biased. We see the broken vehicles and it's easy to forget that they don't all break down and have troubles. We have a customer with a '95 S-10 (4.3 v6, 2wd) that just rolled over 350,000 miles and has been very trouble free. We had an '04 Silverado 5.3 in the other day with 185,000 and it was in terrific shape and has given little trouble over the years.***EDIT*** Maybe I should take that back about the Silverado. I just checked the repair history and he's spent $7500 in repairs since we started working on it in 2006. But we do see plenty of domestic vehicles with 200-300,000 miles.

IIRC, in 2010 JD Powers (?) ranked the Ford Ranger in the top three light trucks that year, and that was one of the reasons I bought, along with other features, like narrow body, comfortable fit and a time -tested design (Ford hadn't changed the basic Ranger design for many years which may have been the thing that added to reliability... they worked the bugs out, while the newer models had their teething problems).

I'll admit I don't read those reports so don't really know how they work but I've never understood how they can judge quality in a new vehicle. Anything that's new is nice. You can measure horsepower, torque, fuel mileage. You can list the options available and how comfortable it feels but you can't see into the future to know how it will hold up over the years and how expensive they are to repair. I remember in the mid-90's when Chrysler made a comeback with their Intrepid, LHS, and Concorde. All of us in the shop really liked them a lot and I was seriously looking to buy a used one. Fast forward a few years and for the most part they disintegrated into junk. I'm guessing if I went back in time I could find lots of awards those cars won when new.

Alan

 

[Grandpa Paddler]

I learned to drive in a Ford and my Dad owned a lot of Fords and Mercurys, even splurged once and bought a Lincoln Town Car (97?). I've owned several Fords and the only one I had problems with was my 2000 Ford Ranger 4X4 Off Road 3 liter V6. No major problems, except mileage, until the warranty expired, then the fun began. I think every electronic sensor had to be replaced at one time or another. One of them was replaced twice @ $600 a pop. All kinds of suspension problems, differential problems, transmission went, Then the rust started but they said the warranty would only repair holes. The holes didn't appear until after that warranty expired. Time to get a new truck! Ford dealers tried to talk me out of a 5.4 triton saying the Ecoboost V6 was better. The clincher was the trade-in $500.. Granted, the truck was a 12 yo piece of crap, but... Looked at Tundras, great truck but couldn't afford it. My wife didn't like the Ram and I didn't like the Titan. So... we went to the Chevy dealer. $2,900 trade in, 0% financing for 72 mos. and a V8. Bottom line, over $10,000 cheaper than a comparably equiped V6 Ford. And I get better mileage than my Ford driving friends with the EB V6. I was never a big Chevy fan but so far ( since 2012) it has been a decent truck. Ford will really have to go some distance to get me back. Done ranting!!!

 

[Canotrouge]

Imports are great in the small size p/u, but useless in the full size work truck. And really the only one that is a real work truck is/was the Dodge ram with the 5.9 Cumings diesel. I've driven a lot of truck for work and even if they look the same on paper, they are not the same in real life. But it seams that now a day no one want to make a real work truck, they need to have all the gizmos and that is the problem these are the things that brake down...

As for Euro and Asian market Japanese truck that is a different story... Most of them are not available in North America, and most of them have great Diesel engines. Lots of them can be bought as basic as you can ever dream, and some of them would have a capacity of a ton w/o problems!!

 

[southcove]

This is like talking brands of canoes, or even bannock, toss it out there, watch it flash & explode and then run away...! Everyone has their favorite brands, good and bad experiences...

I will throw out one little story of mine. After having to 'prove' to the fleet manager what and why brand* at my branch office, we got two new 150/1500 series trucks, signed out as personal vehicles, never towed a trailer, pretty light duty and service for a truck. Always got factory service, all repairs, maintenance as required, cause the home office required it and paid for it.


Don't you know that two light duty trucks that ran about 45-50K miles a year, maybe even made the same day in the same plant - one was pretty much a lemon, the other probably still on the road somewhere, 9 years later. The same authorized dealer who took our money for 20 years, with those trucks, our new trucks, our delivery vehicles...refused to back us, refused to grant good will...the factory rep couldn't be bothered to show for their own resolution appt at the dealership...

Not knocking the USA any here, as Honda screwed me a few years ago on a 100% failed tranny on a mint very low mileage top of the line Odyssey min-van...something we expected to get much use out of before turning it in...'you must have abused it...(folks, we are not talking a Camaro or Mustang here, but a sane family hauler that never towed)... same reaction from this dealer who had no shame in trying to sell us a new one...!


*have always been a big fan of Consumer Reports magazine for impartial testing of so many products, cars, services, etc. I jumped to the head of the line that year by including w my branch budget copious copies of CU magazine reports on the trucks that I was requesting corporate buy for us...you win some, you lose some.

 

[Alan Gage]

I agree a lot of it comes down to luck. We have customers who would swear by a certain make/model of vehicle that we at the shop think is terrible. We also have customers who are convinced a certain make/model is terrible even though we think they're great. Hard to trump personal experience.

Alan

 

[Guest]

Brake lines. Goodness do we ever replace a lot of brake lines. We buy it in bulk 500' at a time. It's a miserable job. GM is by far the worst offender. Ford is better but still not good. We do them all the time. I think I can count on both hands the number of import vehicles we've had to replace brake lines on.

I recently had the rusted out brake lines replaced on the Ford E-150 van, just over 100,000 miles. (Local independent shop that only fixes what is wrong and doesn’t up sell. 2 country miles away. I feel blessed, especially since I drove it there with essentially no brakes).

Conversely:
84 Hi-Lux. 250,000+ miles, only sold it because an infant car seat on the bench seat meant my wife had to ride in the bed. Break lines, never. Or much of anything else major (Omoaem).
Mid-90’s base Xtra cab (with fugly 90’s side graphics), only sold because the winky back seats would no longer accommodate growing O-lineman offspring. 250,000+ miles. Brake lines, never. Omoaem

Those are the only two vehicles I have owned that never once left me stranded on the side of the highway. Even the CR-V had an electrical fault that killed the alternator at 25,000 miles.

Son’ s cars currently in our driveway, parked beside the van, that 04 Honda CR-V (285,000 miles) and an 01 Corolla (youthful at only 180,000 miles). Brake lines never neither. OMoAE, although the oil pan on the CR-V is starting to rust out and it has had a couple emission control hiccups.

In 45 years of vehicles I owned a Fiat (don’t ask), an ancient high mileage Audi 100 LS (great driver, expensive as hell to repair), a massive 68 Chrysler Newport (Oh My God), a Mitsubishi Super-shift twin-stick (too much fun to drive, sucky reliability), several easy to work on late 60’s WV Beetles, an 85 Toyota Celica (sporty fun until the timing chain went high mileage, my bad), a couple of Chrysler minivans (crap transmissions), those first two Toyota trucks and a Honda CR-V (still going in the family).

Those two earlier Toyota trucks account for 25 of those 45 vehicle ownership years. Until I discover otherwise I’m a Toyota guy.

BTW, much as I have loved my Toyota trucks, Datsun deserves credit for starting the whole “small truck” thing in the US. There is a book (wish I remembered the title) about the postwar popularity of the early VW’s & Datsuns vs Detroit that is especially fascinating for the early pickup popularity, and for the history of the Datsun 1600, originally (Gaacckk!) badged as the “Fairlady” model.

Datsun was stunned when American consumers bought and used those early trucks for recreation and everyday life, and quickly set about improved them as something more than rudimentary farm transportation.

Dammit, what is the title of that book?

EDIT: Eurka, my aging synapses still work, albeit slowly:

The Reckoning (David Halberstam)

https://www.amazon.com/Reckoning-Da...&qid=1484596019&sr=1-5&keywords=the+reckoning

Alan, nab a used copy of that for yourself or your dad if you haven’t read it. Halberstam is a wonderful author.

 

[Alan Gage]

The Reckoning (David Halberstam)

https://www.amazon.com/Reckoning-Da...&qid=1484596019&sr=1-5&keywords=the+reckoning

Alan, nab a used copy of that for yourself or your dad if you haven’t read it. Halberstam is a wonderful author.

He only reads on his Kindle anymore but I see it's available there. I'll pass it along to him. I'm sure he'll be interested as he started his career working at a Datsun dealership in the mid-70's and had one of the first little Datsun pickups in the area.

Alan

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Mike - I think some of that small truck credit is also due to Isuzu.....makers of the Chevy LUV.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Alan, thanks for the input. Before I make a vehicle purchase, I always consult one or more trusted independent auto mechanics. I'll try to remember you for my next consultation.

 

[dougd]

I bought a Bronco off my paddling buddy Hal years ago and I loved it. 100$ and case of beer which of course I drank half of but did buy him a second case but of course consumed half of that so technically he got his case of beer! My canoe lived on top of that as I was going out 4-5 days a week back then. I will admit I did have one snafu with it. I was mounting rack settings which I had to drill through the roof to secure. I had my drill, drill bits, beers and the music blasting outta the back speakers of the B2 as we called it. First drill hole and the music stopped. Yup, I drilled right through a bundle of wires, 8 of them to be exact severing 5 of them. What should have been an hour job turned into something like two days before I was able to splice all the wires back together again.

 

[Robin]

He only reads on his Kindle anymore but I see it's available there. I'll pass it along to him. I'm sure he'll be interested as he started his career working at a Datsun dealership in the mid-70's and had one of the first little Datsun pickups in the area.

Alan

I was following a Datsun pickup thru a small town one day many years ago and noticed he had blocked out the letters D and N on his tailgate and underneath the"ATSU" he wrote "Gesundheit"

Funny how these things stick in your mind and years later I would post it on the internet.

 

[Doc.]

No Title

I've been fortunate with my Toyotas over the years but round about the new millennium I began to realize that I was needing more room for my decreasing flexibility (ahem). I purchased this Ford in 2005 from a company that had ordered a fleet of 20 basic units. 19 were the expected white and 1 was maroon. Got it cheap. Hand crank windows, vinyl bench seat & floor, radio & air. Probably be buried in it.

 

[frozentripper]

Just reading the news now on the upcoming Mustang redesign... lots of geewhiz ooolala electronic options for customized personalization... digital instrument cluster screen can be arranged tp the owner's preferences... "Mustang MyMode" allows preferences for functions like suspension and steering and even how the engine sounds while idling and accelerating. "Engine note" can be tuned to an individual's style with an "active valve exhaust" option. Yup, lots of really impressive stuff for those who go for vroom vroom.

It seems the 2018 F-150 is due for some redesign as well.