I test paddled the Esquif at the last Paddlefest in Old Forge and liked it. I just wanted lighter weight. But definitely a rugged and easy paddling canoe.
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Happy Birthday, Stan "the Man" Musial (1920-2013)! ⚾🐦
First solo canoe and solo safety
- Thread starter bonpawtuck
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Exactly the right move. I know very few products that are one-size-fits-all and are still worth owning.
Hope you get many hours afloat this summer.
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“I know it’s viewed by many as a reincarnation of the Old Town Pack not suited for 'serious' paddling”.
The OT Pack gets a bad rap from many “serious” paddlers. It fills a niche, and for many uses was an economical, multi-functional Royalex canoe. I’m not that kind of “serious” or boat proud about canoes; we had a Pack for 20+ years, often used as a small water solo day tripper, a novice loaner and tween-ager solo, a dedicated duckhunting marsh canoe, and even, at first, in lighter-backpacking years, as a downriver tripper.
Less than $800 new in the ‘80’s. I/we/lots of folks got $10,000 worth of pleasure from that Pack; my 75 year old ex-boss paddles it still today.
The T-formex Esquif Adirondack is a first cousin to the Royalex OT Pack. I would take the 9lbs heavier in exchange for a wee bit deeper and narrower. Excepting the additional weight (T-formex canoes seem to run 5lbs +/- than same-model Royalex canoes), all to my mind dimensional improvements from the OT Pack.
The phrase “trying to be honest with myself about the kind of paddling I’m going to be doing 80+% of the time” is the single best directive to which a canoe buyer can commit.
Buy for what you honestly hope and plan to be doing most often. Not the impossible what-if/maybe someday conundrum of “Flatwater. And Class II+. Usually solo, but sometimes with the wife and kids. And dog”.
Every potential paddling use involves some trade-offs, and every compromise becomes less functional for what you do “most of the time”.
Will that be what you evolve to doing “most of the time”? Maybe not; probably not, and probably your first and last solo canoe.
I have not seen the Esquif Adirondack in person. What is the bottom shape? The Pack was very flat bottomed, with a slightly molded “keel”. I would have preferred more of a shallow arch or shallow vee to prevent the hull bottom oil canning.
Good choice. Keep us posted.
EDIT: I mis-remembered the Adirondack as being 13" long; its is 12' just like the OT pack
The OT Pack gets a bad rap from many “serious” paddlers. It fills a niche, and for many uses was an economical, multi-functional Royalex canoe. I’m not that kind of “serious” or boat proud about canoes; we had a Pack for 20+ years, often used as a small water solo day tripper, a novice loaner and tween-ager solo, a dedicated duckhunting marsh canoe, and even, at first, in lighter-backpacking years, as a downriver tripper.
Less than $800 new in the ‘80’s. I/we/lots of folks got $10,000 worth of pleasure from that Pack; my 75 year old ex-boss paddles it still today.
The T-formex Esquif Adirondack is a first cousin to the Royalex OT Pack. I would take the 9lbs heavier in exchange for a wee bit deeper and narrower. Excepting the additional weight (T-formex canoes seem to run 5lbs +/- than same-model Royalex canoes), all to my mind dimensional improvements from the OT Pack.
The phrase “trying to be honest with myself about the kind of paddling I’m going to be doing 80+% of the time” is the single best directive to which a canoe buyer can commit.
Buy for what you honestly hope and plan to be doing most often. Not the impossible what-if/maybe someday conundrum of “Flatwater. And Class II+. Usually solo, but sometimes with the wife and kids. And dog”.
Every potential paddling use involves some trade-offs, and every compromise becomes less functional for what you do “most of the time”.
Will that be what you evolve to doing “most of the time”? Maybe not; probably not, and probably your first and last solo canoe.
I have not seen the Esquif Adirondack in person. What is the bottom shape? The Pack was very flat bottomed, with a slightly molded “keel”. I would have preferred more of a shallow arch or shallow vee to prevent the hull bottom oil canning.
Good choice. Keep us posted.
EDIT: I mis-remembered the Adirondack as being 13" long; its is 12' just like the OT pack
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The bottom is just like the Pack as far as I can tell: flat with a mini-keel. I had the same thought about oil canning. When I test paddled a different Adirondack* that I didn't end up buying, the first thing I noticed was the "bounciness" of the bottom as I got situated in the boat. I also have a Penobscot 16, and I thought it would be cool to make a "Pack" that's just a smaller version of that - slightly narrower and with a shallow V. That said, I think I will appreciate the primary stability that comes with a flat bottom when I'm fishing or have a dog with me.
I've had "Le Pack" out twice now. I suppose this holds true for any flat-bottomed boat, but heeling makes the effective hull shape more rounded and changes the feel and performance accordingly. I had the thought of trying to pull in the gunnels in a bit in the future to force a more rounded shape. But the concern with that is potentially creating a hogged keel.
*Apparently Esquif is making an Adirondack "LV" and an Adirondack "HV" (low- and high-volume, respectively). They don't list this option on their website, but Oak Orchard had both options. The first one I tried was an "LV." It's trimmed down a couple inches and so a few pounds lighter. There are a couple tradeoffs to this: 1) They use the same seat brackers, which has the effect of lowering the seat, and the lowered seat is too low to kneel with (not enough room for your legs underneath). One can raise the seat, of course. 2) It's a bit sketchier to heel. Because there are a couple inches less freeboard, leaning puts the gunnels considerably closer to the water. 3) Because you can't kneel (again, one could raise the seat), the bounciness of the bottom is, I think, more pronounced. Kneeling so that one's feet and legs are putting pressure on the bottom of the boat of course makes it a bit stiffer.
Apologies for reviving an old thread but was hoping you can provide an update on you experiences with the Esquif Adirondack. I've been looking at that and the OT Disco 119.
I'm looking for a solo boat that's rugged for the boney rivers around here and lighter than my 84lb aluminum tandem
. I hoping to do some overnight trips on lakes and rivers with some C2. I'm trying to keep price down as well due to family considerations.Both boats seem to fit those needs decently.
Thanks!
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Hi cnmjr123,Apologies for reviving an old thread but was hoping you can provide an update on you experiences with the Esquif Adirondack. I've been looking at that and the OT Disco 119.
I'm looking for a solo boat that's rugged for the boney rivers around here and lighter than my 84lb aluminum tandem
Both boats seem to fit those needs decently.
Thanks!
I actually currently have my Adirondack listed for sale (Binghamton, NY). I've had a lot of fun with it, but I want something that tracks a little better and that I can cover some more ground in.
Pros: Affordable way to get into solo paddling, stable, great for fishing, photography, bringing the dog, and recreational paddling. Extra width means that you can fit a good bit of gear even though it's a pretty short canoe.
Cons: Slow and doesn't track very well (I've often wondered how much this could be improved with a shallow V hull instead of a flat bottom with a molded keel). I've found this to be particularly frustrating when paddling against the current, although one might have better luck with a double-bladed paddle.
Overall: I knew nothing about solo paddling when I bought my Adirondack (My comment above about how it tracks decently well when heeled shows my lack of understanding. This was the result of watching a couple videos of people paddling 'Canadian style,' mimicking that, and thinking, 'Hey, this isn't half bad!'). It's been a great boat for learning the basics of solo paddling and allowing me to spend more time on the water solo. However, I've learned that I like covering distance (including up-current) more than I like fishing/poking around, so it's not the best fit for me.
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I'm not sure. I don't have a huge budget, so I've been following the used market to see what pops up, demoing what I can, and going from there. However, lots of folks here are better equipped than I am to make recommendations.
I'll add two quick notes. First, one recommendation you'll get a lot is to demo a boat before you buy it. (I did demo the Adirondack and obviously liked it enough to buy it. I've just grown a lot as a paddler since then.) This is a good recommendation.
Second, the Disco 119 is shorter, wider, heavier, and about the same price as the Adirondack. If you end up choosing between those two, I'd say Adirondack all the way.
I'll add two quick notes. First, one recommendation you'll get a lot is to demo a boat before you buy it. (I did demo the Adirondack and obviously liked it enough to buy it. I've just grown a lot as a paddler since then.) This is a good recommendation.
Second, the Disco 119 is shorter, wider, heavier, and about the same price as the Adirondack. If you end up choosing between those two, I'd say Adirondack all the way.
I did a lot of solo paddling in a Penobscot 16. i assume that you already figured out to paddle it backwards from the bow seat. I always carried a 5 gallon plastic bucket. put that up front with a few gallons of water and a Penobscot will sit down nice and handle pretty good in the wind. I eventually added a kneeling thwart, which was even better. There's a lot more good solo boats not on your list than what you've written down. Buy a used canoe, even a new canoe is gonna be used, soon.
I solo almost always, and almost always alone, mostly daytrips.
PFD on. Whistle. Knife.
Paddling in 4 feet of water is every bit as good, if not better, than paddling in 400 ft of water. I make long crossings deliberately and with care and I stay near shore as much as possible.
I don't have an Inreach etc. but I always let someone know where I am. My phone is in a waterproof box, and it stays there until I take out. The box is in a fanny pack with a few other items that I want if I have to walk. I wear the fanny pack until I take out.
in colder weather, I wear a drysuit, and my crossings are even more careful, as is my eye on the weather.
I carry a daypack with "overnight" suitable extra clothing, snack bar stuff, a first aid kit and a headlamp. I think of it as what I would need to crawl to the road. Of course, there's a few items to add for a multiday trip.
I'm not paddling alone into any moving water that has any real pin/wrap/strainer danger.
I have a floating painter on the bow of my canoe, sometimes one on the stern. In cold weather, I attach a 75 ft throw bag to the canoe... I'm usually near shore, and I'd prefer to just swim with a line to shore and then pull the canoe in.
Spare paddle. Footwear that you can walk in.
I solo almost always, and almost always alone, mostly daytrips.
PFD on. Whistle. Knife.
Paddling in 4 feet of water is every bit as good, if not better, than paddling in 400 ft of water. I make long crossings deliberately and with care and I stay near shore as much as possible.
I don't have an Inreach etc. but I always let someone know where I am. My phone is in a waterproof box, and it stays there until I take out. The box is in a fanny pack with a few other items that I want if I have to walk. I wear the fanny pack until I take out.
in colder weather, I wear a drysuit, and my crossings are even more careful, as is my eye on the weather.
I carry a daypack with "overnight" suitable extra clothing, snack bar stuff, a first aid kit and a headlamp. I think of it as what I would need to crawl to the road. Of course, there's a few items to add for a multiday trip.
I'm not paddling alone into any moving water that has any real pin/wrap/strainer danger.
I have a floating painter on the bow of my canoe, sometimes one on the stern. In cold weather, I attach a 75 ft throw bag to the canoe... I'm usually near shore, and I'd prefer to just swim with a line to shore and then pull the canoe in.
Spare paddle. Footwear that you can walk in.
That's a great idea.
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This has been a great thread. I'm sure you have a direction you're moving in for your new boat, but thought I'd throw one out that I haven't seen mentioned yet (more common in the Midwest than NE?). Northstar Trillium?
It's available with a hung seat (I'm in the pack seat) and just a fun boat. 14'6" so it's small for long trips but I find it works well for me for 1-2 nights. Tracks well and fast for it's length. A bit of asymmetric rocker so it is still maneuverable. Initial stability is a bit low until you get used to it but secondary is great.
Good luck with the new search. Cheers to the new boat, whatever it is!
I also have a Northstar Trillium pack version and it is a great canoe.
