First day out with new boat and new canoe dog

[Magnus919]

The Big Camper is back on the water. The new seats are working pretty well. They are very low, which I did on purpose, but that helps with the constant weight shifting around from the dog(s). We went out on the Neuse River today. We started out with my wife and the schnauzer in the Camper with me, and my oldest daughter in the Next with her poodle.

After a ways, my daughter said she was getting blisters from the double bladed paddle (no gloves) and wanted a break. We had snacks and waters, and decided to mix things up a bit. My wife would take the Next. My daughter and both dogs would get in the Camper, and we'd spin it around backwards as if I were paddling solo (which I was; my daughter was cargo). Because of the configuration, she ended up facing me.

My wife decided she liked the Next a lot. She wants her own solo boat with a low seat like the Next. She prefers double bladed paddling. Now she knows.

One of the highlights of the day was getting up really close to a water snake. The kid loves reptiles so she thought this was really cool.

And the other highlight was the poodle spontaneously deciding to go for a swim. Daughter fished him out of the river.

The bonus round was when we were loading the (fairly heavy) boats back on the roof of the car, my wife said "why don't you sell your motorcycle and use the money to buy one of those really lightweight boats".

 

[Guest]

My wife decided she liked the Next a lot. She wants her own solo boat with a low seat like the Next. She prefers double bladed paddling. Now she knows.

my wife said "why don't you sell your motorcycle and use the money to buy one of those really lightweight boats".

Note that she didn’t say “Buy yourself one of those really lightweight boats”.

 

[Magnus919]

Note that she didn’t say “Buy yourself one of those really lightweight boats”.

Hahaha! Well we talked more about it. She wants to get the first one for me and then she'll tell me if she likes it as-is, wants a smaller one, etc. and we'll use that feedback to get hers in the Spring.

 

[Magnus919]

I actually exchanged some really helpful emails with Joe @ PBW. The RapidFire is a compelling contender. But past experience working with third party shippers not backed by the seller is leaving me a bit aloof.

 

[BWCA66]

Have you checked out ship my kayak? They only ship paddlesport stuff and while timing is sometimes long they do a good job.

 

[Magnus919]

Here's the one Joe was endorsing: http://placidboatworks.com/shipping.html

 

[Guest]

That looked like a very enjoyable family trip. May there be many more.

The RapidFire is a helluva boat. I envision one in your wife’s future after the motorcycle is sold. Once she paddles the RapidFire good luck getting it back. Or keeping up with her.

I see you have your small dry bags handily clasped around the thwart/yoke. That of course works well to keep them secure and not rolling around loose in the bilge water.

The downside is that if you ever need to perform a bow over/T-recovery of a capsized canoe - bringing a capsized boat up perpendicular to your canoe and sliding the still inverted canoe across your gunwales to drain it (which is actually pretty easy and surprisingly stable to do, and fun to practice) – those clipped-on-the-thwart bags in a capsized canoe will be hanging down. You may not be able to pull the inverted hull up far enough to drain it and flip it before the hanging dry bag catches on your gunwale.

I had a messed up boat-over recovery on the South River. I executed a speedy (I was quite proud) loose boat capture and got it half way over my gunwales before it mysteriously hung up. I WTF tried several times to pull it across, until I was floating backwards into strainer danger myself.

The mystery hang up was a bleach bottle bailer, tied to a thwart and dangling in the way. I’d have cut the line to the bailer had I known that was the issue; not sure what I would do with a dry bag, but it probably wouldn’t be dry anymore.

That episode convinced me to keep anything attached to the canoe, at least on day trips, secured below the sheerline.

BTW, if you ever get the family out to some convenient shallow swimming area practicing deliberate capsizes and various (assisted and unassisted) recoveries makes for a fun day of water play. “Deliberate” is the operative word, especially in some sit near the bottom boats were you force the hull to capsize. (In a pin, strainer or bad eddy turn the current will provide that needed force).

That definitely helped my boys get more comfortable with bracing and unplanned out of boat experiences. Even as youngsters in small solo boats they were well practiced assistants in helping recover other folk’s canoes.

 

[Magnus919]

She and I went out to lunch today. We were bouncing back and forth between Swift's web site & PBW. Some of Swift's pack boats had a lot of appeal to her from the combination of cost/weight perspective. Her #1 criteria is weight, so keeping it down closer to 20 lbs is worth a few more bucks. So comparing the Swift pack boats in carbon fusion layup to PBW SpitFire in XLT Ultra layup had her pretty fired up. I'd pointed out that the RapidFire was going to be a more versatile boat, worth a little more $$ for us to be able to go camping, bring the dogs, etc. which of course begs a comparison to the Keewaydin pack boats. That's where Swift loses competitive edges on price and weight.

Our strategy right now looks like:
1. Sell the motorcycle.
2. Order one RapidFire on speculation that one of us will love it. If I hate it, she'll probably love it and it'll be her boat, and I go to the trouble of a field trip to NY to try out some other boats before ordering my own.
3. If I love the RapidFire, it's mine, but we order her one of her own.

In my late night Facebook conversation with Joe M., after hearing about my size and paddling style and what kind of waters I paddle in, knowing that any of his boats were going to be on the menu, he steered me towards the RapidFire as being the most versatile "if you can only have one" boat. Because after getting one of these, I'm in trouble if I try getting another canoe...

Good tips on the outfitting. I'll have to figure out how we're going to secure stuff lower in the boat. Maybe attaching some D-rings to the hull or something. I've seen some options out there to explore.

Most of our paddling is in ridiculously shallow water. The water was often less than a foot deep in those photos above. However, as the family gets more adept with the boats, I want to get them out onto our bigger lakes and deeper rivers. We definitely have some good places like Falls Lake to practice exercises, free of power boat traffic.

 

[Guest]

I'd pointed out that the RapidFire was going to be a more versatile boat, worth a little more $$ for us to be able to go camping, bring the dogs, etc. which of course begs a comparison to the Keewaydin pack boats. That's where Swift loses competitive edges on price and weight.

Swift’s pack canoes and others are fine canoes, and depending on your intended use can get down to some seriously skinny weights. Given a money-is-no-object I’d own a RapidFire.

Order one RapidFire on speculation that one of us will love it. If I hate it, she'll probably love it and it'll be her boat, and I go to the trouble of a field trip to NY to try out some other boats before ordering my own.


If I love the RapidFire, it's mine, but we order her one of her own.

I will wager neither of you will hate it. In fact I’ll wager both of you will be pleased.

In my late night Facebook conversation with Joe M., after hearing about my size and paddling style and what kind of waters I paddle in, knowing that any of his boats were going to be on the menu, he steered me towards the RapidFire as being the most versatile "if you can only have one" boat. Because after getting one of these, I'm in trouble if I try getting another canoe...

Joe is right on. I guess I could do some Nessmuk style canoe camping in a 12 foot, 12 lb Hornbeck, but a 15 foot 20-some pound RapidFire would be a lot more versatile, as a daddy hauler on family day trips or a fast, light tripping boat.

Lesse, Raleigh to Lake Placid – a 12 hour drive. That puts you in easy striking distance of some easy family canoe camping venues. I’d suggest Little Tupper. Order the RapidFire, go pick it up and paddle on Lil Tupper the first weekend in October.

I wouldn’t pay for shipping, or trust that any shipping service will deliver a composite hull umblemished and intact. Especially not if I got to travel to some premier paddling destination and meet my boat’s maker.

Good tips on the outfitting. I'll have to figure out how we're going to secure stuff lower in the boat. Maybe attaching some D-rings to the hull or something. I've seen some options out there to explore.

I am partial to strategically placed Northwater Double D-ring anchors (the plastic/nylon ones, not the metal D-rings)

https://northwater.com/collections/d-rings-anchor-rings/products/1-inch-double-d-ring-anchor

“Strategically placed” because with some forethought those double D’s can secure 10L day trip dry bags within reach or strap down a big 115L portage pack.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Magnus - good call on selling the bike. I gave up motorcycles to go headlong into canoeing, and never missed them.

re securing gear: another option on flat water is to lash the dry bags together and just let 'em fall out or float out when you turtle or swamp. Then your boat is lighter for the rescue, and you can gather up the "raft" after re-entering.

 

[Magnus919]

Magnus - good call on selling the bike. I gave up motorcycles to go headlong into canoeing, and never missed them.

The motorcycle and I have toured over much of the southeastern US together. I'm certainly not bored, but I'm ready for another flavor of adventuring. And it means a lot to me that, at least at some level, my wife and two of my kids want to join in.

 

[Guest]

Magnus - good call on selling the bike. I gave up motorcycles to go headlong into canoeing, and never missed them.

re securing gear: another option on flat water is to lash the dry bags together and just let 'em fall out or float out when you turtle or swamp. Then your boat is lighter for the rescue, and you can gather up the "raft" after re-entering.

I gave up motorcycles when I realized that 4 wheels provided a roof and windshield and heater and an 8-track player, and bugs weren’t hitting me in the face.

There are as many schools of thought about tying in, lashing together or leaving gear loose as there are paddling venues and conditions.

On tight twisty rivers with strainers and sweepers lashing gear together to float downstream and become entangled would be a mess. On pool & drop river I might rather collect my loose dry bags in the eddy beside the empty canoe. Funny thing is the canoe never empties completely of gear, even after some run away down river time inverted.

On a big lake or open water it depends on wind and wave and spray covers and, as often as not, how difficult it is to tie gear in at the camp launch. It’s a judgment and laziness call.

The motorcycle and I have toured over much of the southeastern US together. I'm certainly not bored, but I'm ready for another flavor of adventuring. And it means a lot to me that, at least at some level, my wife and two of my kids want to join in.

Magnus, if your family wants to, and can all paddle now and enjoy the experience that is the bomb, and worth pursuing. I can dang near guarantee they will all want their own solo boats eventually if not sooner.

There are some excellent kid (and small adult) boats out there that are not Craigslist unicorns. Keep your eye out for:

The old Dagger Tupelo, which with some easy DIY outfitting (horrible OEM seat) is an excellent kid/small adult day boat. 10 foot and 30 lbs of pure RX Lite fun.

http://www.outdoorreview.com/cat/pr...g/canoes/dagger/tupelo/prd_78660_2991crx.aspx

The old Wilderness Systems Piccolo is a fantastic light load boat, essentially shrunken sea kayak design, but short (13 ½ feet) and nimble enough to turn. Sometimes advertised used with a rudder.

http://kayakdave.com/2012/06/13/wilderness-systems-piccolo-review-best-kids-kayak/

There are 70’s and early 80’s pack canoes from various manufacturers. Old Town made a Bart Hauthaway 18 lb glass “Rushton” model. Great little ckeeky kid canoe.

Mohawk made a 10 ½ foot 33 lb glass pack canoe. It was a designed as a kid or small person sit on the bottom canoe at 26 inches wide, but they made bunches of them at under $200 a pop in the eighties. At that length/width ratio they are not pumpkinseed slow.

That L/W ratio is something to consider in a kid/small person hull. No one, especially a kid or smaller paddler want a hull that can’t keep up.

And, not to raise the ire of the canoe crowd, a small, efficiently slender SOT makes a helluva fun kid boat.

I am sure there are other used kid boat values to be Craigsist pounced upon.

 

[Magnus919]

Magnus, if your family wants to, and can all paddle now and enjoy the experience that is the bomb, and worth pursuing. I can dang near guarantee they will all want their own solo boats eventually if not sooner.

Oh, they are already there. Especially my wife. The kids don't necessarily want to own boats but they do want access to solo boats, even if they are only borrowing one of mine. If I get a nice bonus, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of Hornbecks made it into the fleet. If I don't get a nice bonus, I'll trawl Craigslist. The family is mostly a bunch of skinny girly girls and they put a very high value on very lightweight boats they can handle themselves. And I put a very high value on making this a positive experience for them so they want to do it more often.

 

[Magnus919]

I went back out there by myself in the OT Next. No dog this time. I wanted to take my time & take photos without any other distractions.

 

[sweeper]

Very nice

 

[goonstroke]

Great pictures. While I like the New England / Great Lakes / Canadian Shield scenery we usually get over the bow of a canoe, your waters are clearly of a different latitude.

 

[Magnus919]

Great pictures. While I like the New England / Great Lakes / Canadian Shield scenery we usually get over the bow of a canoe, your waters are clearly of a different latitude.

Yes, this is blackwater cypress swamp. It's a very short drive from here to experience the same kinds of waters with more Spanish moss and alligators.

 

[Guest]

I love intimate swamp waters.

No place else seems as alive in every nook and cranny to me.

 

[boatstall]

Cypress swamps + Spanish moss + alligators = home waters for me.

While we love paddling tandem, and is our norm, going solo in a swamp is my favorite way to clear my head and recharge. I find that my paddle strokes slow drastically to almost a scull, and often a full stop, to allow appreciation for the scenery. Distance often becomes irrelevant to me.

Glad your bride and daughters enjoy going with you. Mine have also been comfortable in a canoe for a long time, and now my Granddaughter is taking some of her college buddies on a trip in two weeks before school starts again.

Great thread Magnus919.
Thanks for taking us along.

 

[Will Derness]

I love intimate swamp waters.
.

You can get intimate here to the point of becoming quite lost.