Down sleeping bag? (specific criteria)

[Guest]

Done. I wanted a down 20F bag before leaving for the next trip and it arrived yesterday.

Marmot 20F Kenosha Down bag from Sierra Trading Post. It is a mummy, but it has a wide-ish taper at the hips and shoulders. It isn’t treated down, but neither was my old down bag and that one lasted 20+ years.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/marmot-20-f-kenosha-down-sleeping-bag-650-fill-power-mummy~p~6334m/

$174 after discount coupons. It is 1/3 the size of the 0F Wiggys bag.

After the organizational shelving addition to the truck I found that I now have much more storage room than before and have packed three sleeping bags. The 35-50 down flip (Grapefruit sized) for warm temps, the down Kenosha (loaf of bread sized) for dry bagged canoe trips, and the giant Wiggys (beer keg) for sleeping in the back of the truck on frigid nights.

Cold weather condensation is not a big issue in the mostly mesh tent, but the back of the truck can be another story, especially on cold rainy nights when I need to keep the windows closed. I’ll use the Wiggys in the truck on chilly nights and save the Kenosha for canoe trips, but if need be I’m covered down (several puns) to 0F.

 

[Odyssey]

Have you ever considered a roof vent on your cap? Not sure if it's practical, just wondering.

After some deliberation, we've decided against a down quilt; but the deliberations have only just begun on the flip bags. All these ideas are helpful.

 

[Guest]

Have you ever considered a roof vent on your cap? Not sure if it's practical, just wondering.

The side windows are screened, and I have easily attachable screens for the sliding cap/cab window as well as the tailgate/cap door area.

The crux of the ventilation/condensation problem is when it is raining and I don’t want the windows open. I have a tarp that attaches to the roof rack crossbars on one side, rain proofing one sliding screened window, but one 12” x 28” window isn’t much and doesn’t provide much cross ventilation.

To be honest I use that side tarp more in the desert for shade when the truck is parked for a day-stay. I’m too lazy to put it up, easy as it is, when I roll into some place in the dark and rain and plan to leave in the morning.

I think the KISS solution is to use a fan to circulate the air under the cap, so I’m back to a jump box with 110V capability, or a fan with rechargeable batteries.

The truck continues to evolve as I spend more time living in it.

 

[Seeker]

Not much to add except for a personal experiment/observation on how hard it is to get down bags wet. I got a Western Mountaineering Caribou in around 2004/5. I had heard a lot about getting down wet. This particular bag is box stitched, as it's only rated to 35*F... I pushed one of the squares down into a dish shape, poured in a half cup of water, and proceeded to check on it every half hour... I got bored at the 3 hour mark and pronounced the material itself "good enough". I moved the dish-shape to an area over the stitching, and it soaked through into those two boxes in about 15 minutes. After it had dried, I rolled the whole thing up in its stuff sack, placed that in a cheap walmart "waterproof bag" (silnylon, not the rubber/plastic 'dry bag' kind), rolled the top over a few times, buckled it shut, put it in a 30 gallon garbage can, set a block on it, and filled it with water. I let it soak for a half hour, removed the block, the bag bobbed to the top, and when I opened it, there was a tiny bit of the bag where water had soaked into one of the seams, wetting 2-3 blocks (as in my earlier experiment). I was satisfied.

 

[Odyssey]

I chose fake fill over down because I was concerned about loss of insulating properties when wet. We used to camp in near freezing temps in October, so I was being extra cautious about this. It was a "just in case" scenario...just in case we're caught in a storm with damaged tent and tarp etc. Anyway, I guess down bags might not be the giant sponge pillows I feared they were. I see there's also treated down nowadays. I'm always second guessing my gear choices. I'll add down bags to my list. Interesting experiment Seeker, thanks for that.

 

[yaricoy]

Seeker- Thanks for posting the results of your experiment. I switched to down bags in the mid 90's and haven't looked back, but I treat that bag like the mountain men probably used to treat their gunpowder and am overly cautious to keep it dry. The only time I take a synthetic fill bag now is a 40 or 50 degree bag in the summer where I'm looking for a thin layer and bug protection. I'm interested in the Sierra Designs down sleeping bag bed/quilt- being the stomach, rolling, twisting, side sleeper that I am.

 

[Mnoutdoorfunguy]

We have had great luck with the Western Mountaineering down bags. So light, comfy and well-made. IMO, well worth the money and made in USA. We each have an Antelope MF and an Alder MF. The Alder opens up flat and is wonderful summer and early fall bag.

 

[BWCA66]

Have you considered forgoing the bag and using a top quilt instead? I have one for hammocking but if I was going back to ground I'd probably stick with the same setup. The thinking is that a sleeping bag doesn't provide much insulation on your backside because you're laying on it and compressing the insulation. That's why we all use a sleeping pad. So why not save the weight and bulk and skip the bottom half?

I don't know that it's necessarily going to save you much money but I find mine very comfortable and the size, while probably not as large as an unzipped sleeping bag, is much more generous than a zipped bag and allows you great freedom of movement. Mine has a small foot box that can be opened or closed.

I'm sure they're made by the big brands as well but there are plenty of very high quality ones available from smaller, "one man", operations. My top and bottom quilts are from hammockgear and rated at 20*. I've been very happy with them. My main reason for picking them was their "standard" quilt was just a little longer than the others so I didn't have to pay extra for the "extra long" model.


http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/quilts-1/

Alan

I agree with Alan, I have 2 of Enlightened Equipments quilts and have used them in a hammock and on the ground, they work great as long as you have a pad under you. They pack up really small and also make a great liner for my sleeping bag when I go winter camping in sub-zero weather.

 

[Philtrum]

The only time I've had a down bag get wet was when my basement was flooded back in 2000. It was an old army mountain bag, and when I first saw it during the flood it was floating high and almost dry. It took a day to pump out the water (from the house, not the bag), and at that point it had gained about 2 lbs (a quart).

I've had a couple of mummy bags and learned to hate them. I could never sleep comfortably on my side in one of them because I couldn't keep a pillow in place - and forget about stomach-sleeping. They're designed for back-sleeping, which is a formula for sleep apnea, which makes the typical mummy bag a bad design.

My current bag is a Kelty Coromell 25. It doesn't have a hood and is slightly tapered at the top with two drawstrings. It also has more room between midsection and foot. At 76" it's long enough to pull over my head when it's cold, and it works well as a blanket for temps between about 50* and 75*.

 

[Canotrouge]

Every body in my family is a side sleeper, everybody uses a down mummy bag, and no body have any problems sleeping with a pillow.... That said, I use a barrel bag in the summer months that unzip as a quilt for when the temperature is to hot for the zip up bag. this is what I use https://www.taigaworks.ca/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=303
It as been a great bag that is not to expensive and made in Canada.
Cheers

 

[Jsaults]

I do not own one, but have friends with Western Mountaineering bags. I am highly impressed with the quality. Also, impressed with the price! But they are domestically made if that matters. This one may fit your specs:

http://www.westernmountaineering.co...eping Bags&cat=Microfiber Series&ContentId=22

$435.00. Ahem.

Jim

 

[ppine]

On many summer trips with canoes I now take blankets for the comfort. On the Colorado River trip two years ago in February, is the only time a 20 degree down bag seemed insufficient. The weather was warm during the day, but hard frost at night and lots of humidity even out in the Mojave Desert. It was cold and damp with over 14 hours of darkness. We had fires but sometimes fuel was difficult to find. It was a new experience to be on a canoe trip and be cold some of the time.

 

[bcelect]

I purchased on EBAY, a Canadian Military Goose Down Arctic System. I haven't opened it up yet, but it is two Down bags, one inside the other for extreme conditions, it is supposedly rated for -40 to -50C. Or you can use them individually. I have two US Military Modular systems, they are a little short on me, I am 6'1", the tall models are rare to come by. I will be selling one of them soon. I tried it out in the backyard last winter during the sub zero temps and I was back in the house within a half hour. In the twenties it was fine. I believe the rating of - 40 is with the extra clothing layers. The Canadian system is supposedly good for 6'6".

http://armyissue.com/catalog/product...oducts_id/1651

 

[Guest]

My brother competes in the Watertribe ocean paddling race in Florida every year. They mandate synthetic bags. He used a down bag in violation for years until a leaky dry bag caused him a miserable cold night. Check this event out. For my trips I'm not worried. My down bag cost 49$.
Turtle

 

[ppine]

I bought 2 down bags from REI in 1970 and still have them, but don't use them much except as overbags in winter. They are goose and duck down. It seems that duck down is making a comeback. For the last 20 years I have been using a Marmot mummy bag. In milder weather above freezing, it is only zipped on the bottom 18 inches. I use it like a quilt with a foot pocket so it stays put. If temperatures drop zipping it up is a lot warmer. I roll around the bag comes with me.

 

[rpg51]

Feathered Friends. Good bags. Not cheap.
http://featheredfriends.com/down-sleeping-bags.html

 

[tump_lion]

after about two and a half happy decades of well guarded down, i'm kinda enjoying the 'ah (@&#(*@ it...it's synthetic' feel of my new(er) synthetic bags...bulkier in the pack yes, but a more robust warm dryness...

 

[Guest]

Here’s where I got to on sleeping bag selection. This is kind of specific to needing to have a range of bags available for destination unknown wanderings in the tripping truck.

For winter tripping I suck it up and make room for the zero degree Wiggy’s synthetic bag. I look at the beer barrel bulk as a survival issue.

In most shoulder season tripping the 20F down Marmot bag is more than sufficient. On warmer nights when that bag is too much, even spread out atop me blanket style, I start off with a micro-fiber sheet and pull the bag over me when the night chills down.

Same with summer tripping, except I use the 30/50 down Flip bag as an over quilt, with a starter sheet on warmer nights as needed.

I could, if pressed, zip into the 20F bag, or into the 30/50 flip in one topside guise as necessary, but I could count the number of times I have fully zipped a bag on one hand.

I was in North Carolina in March and started off in the mid 20’s the with 0F Wiggys banket style. Three nights later the low was in the 60’s and I was under a sheet, waiting to pull the 30/50 Flip up as an over blanket.

A well baffled over quilt, sans zippers or drawstring hood, would be ideal for some of my use needs. The side seam on a zippered bag ends up centered directly over my body, inefficient for heat retention, but every down over quilt I’ve seen was stupidly pricey for what is involved.

I am kind of surprised, given the existing price point, that the major sleeping bag manufactures don’t offer more in the way of down over quilts.

Still, having a zipper available gives me another 20 degrees of warmth possibility, even if sacrificing comfort for constriction.

 

[rpg51]

My tripping seems to pretty much end up happening in the shoulder seasons. I prefer down. I am a cold sleeper. Even so, 75% of the time I end up sleeping on a bare therm a rest with my 10 degree bag fully open used as a blanket. I find this to be very comfortable. It gives me room to move. I too would gladly drop some coin on a down blanket type affair and just carry that for a lot of my trips. Also, part of this is that I tend to use a "winter" tent. I have never liked so called "three season" tents except in the heat of summer. I think we should re-name tents. No mesh tents now referred to as "winter" should be identified as "three season" tents. Tents with a lot of mesh now referred to as "three season" should be designated as "summer" tents. Could I get any votes for that?

 

[Guest]

75% of the time I end up sleeping on a bare therm a rest with my 10 degree bag fully open used as a blanket. I find this to be very comfortable. It gives me room to move. I too would gladly drop some coin on a down blanket type affair and just carry that for a lot of my trips. Also, part of this is that I tend to use a "winter" tent. I have never liked so called "three season" tents except in the heat of summer. I think we should re-name tents. No mesh tents now referred to as "winter" should be identified as "three season" tents. Tents with a lot of mesh now referred to as "three season" should be designated as "summer" tents. Could I get any votes for that?

I’m with you on the sleeping bag as over-blanket routine, and rarely sleep in a zipped up bag.

But I use a mostly mesh tent in all seasons. Admittedly my “winter” season travels rarely see temperatures much below the 20’s, but I am a warm sleeper and am accustomed to sleeping in the cold; we don’t heat our bedrooms at home and habitually sleep under piles of blankets and quilts with a window cracked open for fresh air.

Along that same open window line I often leave one vestibule open in even in winter. I like being able to see outside the tent and will position it for a view when possible. The tight no-see-um netting blocks a lot of breeze, often more than I’d like, and isn’t far off the “insulating” factor of another piece of nylon on the tent body. Maybe a 10 degree difference at best between coated rip stop or sil nylon and mesh, unless you are using a truly battened down mountaineering tent.

I am not just a warm sleeper, apparently I am a moist sleeper. Condensation becomes an issue in a closed tent, especially in colder conditions. I leave some breeze opening in part as condensation management.

If open vestibule is too chill I’ll (mostly) close that first and eliminate my view, and as a last resort I’ll zip up the bag.

Essentially I count on the bag and pad to keep me warm enough, and pack accordingly.I do use a thick pad system, a beefy Luxury Mat ThermaRest, usually with a half-length of RidgeRest pad underneath

The half Ridgerest is the seat insulation for my wind chair and also makes a handy camp kneeling pad, and having it below the self-inflating pad at my semi-fetal shoulders and hips adds insulation and puncture protection. It also saved my arse (well, my hips and shoulders) on a trip when an older ThermaRest suffered an undetectable slow leak.

My needs for a tent with a fully enclosable body and fly is limited to windy dust and sand blown places when and where, often as not, it can be warm to hot.

I tried a tent with fully removable zip out panels, providing mostly mesh weight/space savings when removed. Zipping the panels back in place was more of a PITA than I’d care to often repeat and in uncertain conditions I’d have to carry them anyway. That removable panel style tent seemed a better concept than functional reality.

The search for the perfect “all-season” tent goes on. I don’t think there is such a thing for my uses and tend towards a Hubba Hubba 90% of the time and an old Eureka Alpine Meadows if forced to zip it closed to occlude windblown dust and sand.