Double paddle..worth it?

[Blukanu]

In anticipation of next summer’s BWCA trip I’m wondering if I should get a double paddle. Reason being is this trip will have me doing more paddling miles than I’ve ever done on a single trip before.

At face value just seems like a double paddle would be “twice” as efficient. More speed, less fatigue, maybe help fight brutal winds.

I paddle my NC Prospector 16 solo backwards from the bow seat. It’s wide so I imagine I’d need the longest paddle I can find.

For solo are double paddles really where its at?

 

[snapper]

For what it's worth, I will take a kayak paddle with me as an extra paddle when I expect windy conditions. As much as I prefer single blading my canoe, there are some conditions where the double bladed paddle shine. While I don't mind a challenge, I'm out to enjoy my time on the water so sometimes that means going over to the dark side and pulling out a kayak paddle. And hey, if nothing else, you can rationalize it's use from a historical perspective if you want an excuse for bringing one along. Many of Rushton's canoes were designed to use a double blade like today's pack boats.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.

snapper

 

[Alan Gage]

I think a lot of it comes down to paddling style and single blade skill level.

I use a short, lightweight, carbon paddle. I usually paddle sit and switch with a fairly high cadence. Even in windy conditions I prefer this to a double blade and I find it to be less tiring.

Back when I used to kayak I would often switch to a short single blade in the wind because it felt easier. There was a lot of wind resistance in the shaft and the top paddle blade and to me the double felt like more work.

The single blade also makes it easier to take multiple strokes on one side, which is often necessary in cross winds.

That being said a lot of good solo paddlers to prefer a double blade. I'm guessing their single stroking technique tends toward lower cadence with possibly a longer/heavier paddle, in which case I might prefer a double blade in the wind too.

Alan

 

[Cruiser]

You may be opening a can of worms with this topic, a lot of passionate people in this forum.

some points:
- a canoe double blade is not a kayak double blade
- the blade shape is different
- the blade area (size) is about half of a single blade
- the length is substantially longer (260 - 280 vs 200-220)
- canoe width plays a big role in suitability, the wider the canoe, the longer the double needs to be
- canoe width is the width where you will be using the blade, the wife and I have used doubles in a tandem Freedom 17, the ends are narrow and it worked wonderfully ... again, she used both and preferred the double ... fit the equipment to the user
- the stroke when using a canoe double blade is completely different than a kayak stroke (or should be)
- the blade is designed for shallow entry, not the steep angle of a kayak blade, if you get water in the boat, it's user error
- it is not "twice as efficient", it is more efficient, simply because every stroke is a power and correction stroke
- it does result in faster stroke cadence, as every paddle movement is a stroke ... a single blade spends 50% of the time recovering
- in heavier water, correction happens as a matter of stroking, making head way and doing corrections as a matter of paddling
- you still have to do the work, the paddle isn't magic
- each stroke is easier, as the blade is smaller ... but you are doing more actual strokes
- since the paddle arc is out further, the blade also moves through more water ... delivering more "push" per stroke
- you definitely have to fit the paddle to the user
- select the double blade with the same care you would for a single blade
- too short, too long are both going to be nightmares to use

Just to be clear, I have both types (lots of both types). make both types and use both types. When I trip, I take a double and a single ... when I hit the lake it is usually with the double ... I find it best for putting in miles or handling wind and waves. When I have smaller water or am fishing, it is usually the single I reach for, it gives me more flexibility and uses less real estate to maneuver (IMO).

Your paddle is the same as any other piece of equipment, there are different types to be used in different situations. Even if the environment doesn't dictate a certain style of equipment, you will likely gravitate towards a "type" because it suits you better. To really answer your question, you need to get the blades in your hands and see what you think and how they work with your canoe.


Brian

 

[Punkinhead]

Back when I used to kayak I would often switch to a short single blade in the wind because it felt easier. There was a lot of wind resistance in the shaft and the top paddle blade and to me the double felt like more work.

Back in the day (late 70's to early 80's) when I kayaked a lot it was popular to have the two blades offset by 90 degrees so the blade that was out of the water was feathered to the wind. I don't know if that's still a thing in the kayak world.

 

[Alan Gage]

Back in the day (late 70's to early 80's) when I kayaked a lot it was popular to have the two blades offset by 90 degrees so the blade that was out of the water was feathered to the wind. I don't know if that's still a thing in the kayak world.

It's still a thing but I don't think many people do the full 90 degrees and the real reason, as far as I understand it, isn't to defeat the wind but rather to take advantage of proper torso rotation. With proper torso rotation and proper feather angle there is no need to rotate the wrist/paddle shaft when alternating sides. It's more efficient, less tiring, and less likely to lead to injury for people who paddle a lot.

Wind angle can also easily defeat any aerodynamic benefit from paddle feathering, or even make it worse.

Alan

 

[Nick Pending]

It's still a thing but I don't think many people do the full 90 degrees and the real reason, as far as I understand it, isn't to defeat the wind but rather to take advantage of proper torso rotation. With proper torso rotation and proper feather angle there is no need to rotate the wrist/paddle shaft when alternating sides. It's more efficient, less tiring, and less likely to lead to injury for people who paddle a lot.

Wind angle can also easily defeat any aerodynamic benefit from paddle feathering, or even make it worse.

Alan

Back in the day, 1970s and earlier, racing, and likely flatwater sprint racing at that, pretty much dictated kayak paddle feather angles, and 90 degrees was universal solely for wind resistance of the blade in the air traveling forward. In fact, sprint racers I knew advocated the nondiminant hand be the control hand for evening out the stroke somewhat. If a paddler were right handed, they recommended paddling left control. That didn't seem to carry over to whitewater though. Most whitewater paddlers used the dominant hand for control. (Pure canoe paddlers likely won't understand that, just know that paddling a kayak is complicated.) In the '80s, feather angle in whitewater started a slow reduction. I didn't keep up with sprinters after moving west to Portland in '79, so I don't know what they're doing now.

There were advocates in whitewater like Dan Ruuska in Seattle (Natural Designs Kayaks, long defunct) who pushed unfeathered paddles at his customers. He made sea touring kayaks also. I don't know how early he started. I know he was active in the later 1970s and into the '80s, but I think he closed shop about 1990. Later on, in the '90s, feather angles were commonly 75 degrees, reducing to 60 degrees and then 45 degrees, with some unfeathered in the mix. I don't know what's been happening in the last 20 years. I've been away from kayakers since about the early 2000s. Wind is a problem with any feather angle, from zero to 90 and can knock kayakers over in a couple seconds.

 

[Cruiser]

"The single blade also makes it easier to take multiple strokes on one side, which is often necessary in cross winds."


Allan, not sure if this is really the case .... it's pretty easy to skip strokes with either. I know in heavy water/wind (with a twin) I do that depending on conditions ... not sure there is really any meaningful difference


Brian

 

[ppine]

I have used a kayak paddle very successfully to solo in an 18 foot Old Town wood and canvas canoe. It is especially helpful in the wind. With some practice it worked fine on rivers with a lot of current. I do not know the difference between double canoe paddles and kayak paddles. Try it out first.

 

[Alan Gage]

"The single blade also makes it easier to take multiple strokes on one side, which is often necessary in cross winds."


Allan, not sure if this is really the case .... it's pretty easy to skip strokes with either. I know in heavy water/wind (with a twin) I do that depending on conditions ... not sure there is really any meaningful difference


Brian

Like many things it probably comes down to personal preference and paddling style. When I paddled a double blade I used a fair amount of torso rotation so the end of one stroke setup the start of the next (on the opposite side). When I had to take multiple strokes on the same side it disrupted the rhythm and always felt awkward. The beginning of the stroke wasn't setup properly.

Maybe with more practice I could have overcome that but I moved to kayaks with rudders and soon started gravitating more towards the single blade and canoes.

I've tried double blading canoes only a couple times and very briefly. I didn't care for it so maybe my experiences from kayaking don't translate over well.

Alan

 

[ppine]

I built a pygmy kayak once from a kit. I started paddling it often and got used to the double bladed paddle. I used it in large waves and wind and found it to be efficient. Then translating to a canoe was easy.

Pat Parelli used to talk about hours in the saddle, muscle memory and developing feel with horses. The same applies to paddling. 100 hours and you can get start to get the feel of it. 1000 hours and you may have some skill. 10,000 hours and you become one with the paddle.

I have paddled a canoe with an old coal shovel in a large group when I ran out of paddles. It worked surprisingly well. I good rooster can crow in any hen house.

 

[Blukanu]

Guess it doesn’t hurt to have a double in my arsenal. I’d always carry my old trusty single blade anyway.
I’ll add this to my agenda for Canoecopia this March. Fairly sure there will be a few experts there that can help me pick one out.

 

[Punkinhead]

- a canoe double blade is not a kayak double blade
- the blade shape is different

In what way? Admittedly, I haven't spent a lot of time looking at double blades but I don't recall ever seeing one marketed specifically towards canoes with a special blade shape.

 

[Marten]

Plus 1 on all that cruiser has said. The better a person is at using a single blade the less they will like a double. I stink with a single blade and always use a double and love it except when I need to do sweeping strokes on one side fighting angled winds.

BTW, it is nice to have a civil.exchange on this topic!

 

[BWCA66]

I've used a double blade a few times while soloing in a canoe, while I agree it can be more efficient I disagree that there is less fatigue, in my experience it's more fatiguing.

 

[Chip]

I have a Bending Branches 260 double blade I got to use canoeing. It weights 2 lbs, 9 oz. I only found it useful in headwinds, and truthfully, I'm just not strong enough to swing that blade. You sit higher in the canoe than in.a kayak or pack boat, so you need a longer paddle. At 260, the blade has a lot of leverage. This blade came to me from CT-er Will Derness, and I don't know if it is the correct blade for canoeing, but that paddle wears me out.

Others have pointed out that in side winds, you paddle the double on one side while waving the other end of the paddle in the wind. I much prefer a single blade for that.

If your single blade is buoyant, while the blade is in the water, the buoyancy of the paddle supports the weight of the paddle, and to some extent, helps hold your arm up. At least during the stroke, you are not holding the weight of the paddle. With the double blade, you have to support the weight of the paddle at all times, so you never get a break.

Call it user error, but when I double blade, a lot of water drips into the boat.

It was only useful in headwinds, in part because the double is all power stroke and no correction. Sit and switch with the single does the same thing, so just do that instead of a double blade.

The thing the double does better than a single is hold up the center of the tarp when it rains.

LMK if you'd like a 260 BB paddle, I don't use it.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I will sometimes carry a double as my spare when wind might be an issue, but it's never my first choice even as a spare. It's increasingly not even my first choice for wind. The double is good for sprinting, but IME once you've attained a certain level of skill and conditioning with the single, the double is significantly more fatiguing over distance.

I will say this.....If my trip is going to involve portages, I won't even consider a double. But I won't be sitting on the floor either.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

@Blukanu - if....no, when I solo in a tandem canoe, my spare paddle is a pole. Yes, even for multi day trips. In fact, during my first and only BWCA trip last year - even though I was paddling tandem - I was really wishing I had brought a pole. There were several places in low water that I could have had us moving a lot quicker and easier standing with my pole. I have been in several deep water and headwind situations where I was even outrunning other paddlers while standing and "kayak stroking" with my pole.

 

[memaquay]

Double paddle..worth it?​

No.

 

[Cruiser]

In what way? Admittedly, I haven't spent a lot of time looking at double blades but I don't recall ever seeing one marketed specifically towards canoes with a special blade shape.

As I understand it .... the kayak paddle uses a high angle entry into the water and the blade shape tends to have a high angle shoulder, think boxy, so when the blade enters the water it get the max area under quickly. The low angle paddle has a longer tapered shoulder that is about the same as the immersion angle.

You could interchange them, but they wouldn't be optimum for the opposite type of paddling (high angle vs low angle).
This is a link to the Grey Owl site:

Grey Owl Paddles » Paddles

greyowlpaddles.com

The Mistral vs the Tempest is what you are looking at


Brian