dolphin canoe repair

[ross93]

Hi, I recently inherited a dolphin canoe. I'm not sure what model it is but from the hin it looks like a 1973. its got a fair amount of damage, 6 patches that need redone and the front top is my main concern. I'm not sure what to do about it. it looks like its dried out and frizzy.
Let me know what you think
pics in following post

 

[ross93]

im not sure if the pic below is kevlar or should be treated any different than fiberglass

 

[yellowcanoe]

Dolphins are fiberglass. There are a fair number of them around me
Quite heavy
I thing you would better be served by not fixing it and saving the money you would have spent on repairs (which would be a considerable amount)
And putting it to a less used used canoe
That one is probably 40 years and has been left in the sun to make it nice and brittle

 

[Jim Dodd]

Yard ornament ! Cut in half, across the mid section, two yard ornaments.

You would be better off, either building a canoe(Stripper) or buy a good used one.

That old hull is ready for retirement.

Sorry, you have my sympathy !

Jim

 

[ross93]

If I fix it up I was thinking it would cost around $40 for paint, fiberglass repair. I have some bondoglass already and some time to kill.
How brittle are we talking? It spent 3 hours on a trailer and didn't find any damage.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Does it have any floatation at all that is not rotted or gone under the decks. You'll need at least 40 bucks of sandpaper to get that last flaking paint job off and gobs of patience to get crazed cracked gel coat off.

Consider that you can get a less damaged and perfectly serviceable Grumman for about three hundred.. Can you trust the seats in that Dolphin?

By brittle I mean that the moment you hit something that fiberglass will tear having lost its strength. Sun does not do well with fiberglass or kevlar. The holes need to be enlarged in it to make sure you have sound glass to adhere any patch to.

No kevlar in that boat that I can see. Fiberglass would be your patching material anyway.

Check out Craigslist for boats available in your area with price

What you are lookng at outside to inside... old paint, gel coat.. ( needs to be sanded down otherwise nothing will stick to it) and the fiberglass mat.

I suspect you have way more than six spots to patch.. Feel for soft areas.

I suspect this might have been a dear relatives boat and is hard to abandon.

 

[Alan Gage]

Is it just me or does it look like it's already been patched and that patch is peeling off?

I agree with the others that it's probably too far gone for repair. It's not really anything special to begin with. But if you want to repair it for fun go ahead. I assume you won't be tripping with it or running whitewater so if it's brittle and springs a leak on a day paddle it's not a big deal. If looks don't matter you can get by relatively easy since you'll only have to concentrate on sanding the areas that need repair.

First boat my dad ever bought was a Dolphin, probably about the same year. Looks the same model; a little 12' tandem. He's still got it but it never gets paddled any more. One of those things he'll never be able to part with.

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

I'm sorry if I sounded like, well not nice.
I apologize !
The old glass is brittle. You might get by sanding it down, and completely covering it in new glass, inside and out. Repairing all the holes, cracks, prior to glassing, and then paint.


It would make for a good learning experience !

Jim

 

[ross93]

Does it have any floatation at all that is not rotted or gone under the decks. You'll need at least 40 bucks of sandpaper to get that last flaking paint job off and gobs of patience to get crazed cracked gel coat off.

Consider that you can get a less damaged and perfectly serviceable Grumman for about three hundred.. Can you trust the seats in that Dolphin?

By brittle I mean that the moment you hit something that fiberglass will tear having lost its strength. Sun does not do well with fiberglass or kevlar. The holes need to be enlarged in it to make sure you have sound glass to adhere any patch to.

No kevlar in that boat that I can see. Fiberglass would be your patching material anyway.

Check out Craigslist for boats available in your area with price

What you are lookng at outside to inside... old paint, gel coat.. ( needs to be sanded down otherwise nothing will stick to it) and the fiberglass mat.

I suspect you have way more than six spots to patch.. Feel for soft areas.

I suspect this might have been a dear relatives boat and is hard to abandon.

"floatation that has not gone under the decks" im not sure what that means but it seems pretty solid besides that damaged areas.
i can make new seats no problem
yes it was my relatives boat. i could not bring myself to get rid of it.

so bare with me hear, i realize i could buy a canoe for a few hundred on craigslist, but the thing is you cant by sentimental value. i guess im trying to figure out is how dumb is it to redo this canoe. however i dont want to dump a lot of money (in relation to the value of cheap canoes) in to this. i initially thought that i could put $30 in fiberglass repair, $5 in paint, bondo glass (for all the small scrapes) and sandpaper that i already had in it and make it decent.

so hypothetically would i have to do that AND re fiberglass the whole thing and or sand through the current gel coat and add gel coat. im a little confused

heres the most current hole. if this gives you any idea of the current condition. it fell down in the water and rubbed on the rocks for an extended period of time.

 

[Alan Gage]

Shouldn't have to fiberglass the whole thing. Sand out all the damaged areas until you're down to good solid material that the epoxy can bond to. Unless older formulations of gel coat are different than the newer stuff I think epoxy should bond to it ok as long as it's been sanded. Or maybe you're planning to use vinyl ester? That might have problems with the gel coat. But you'll definitely need to get past the paint for the repair areas.

Never used bondo for canoe repairs but I did google it once and found lots of sad stories and bad results. I don't know if the stuff with fiberglass in it would be any better or not.

I'd recommend using epoxy instead of vinyl ester and thickening it with fumed silica (tougher) or micro balloons (easier to sand) in place of the bondo.

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

Years ago, a fellow worker gave me an old Sears fiberglass 12 footer. Originally it resembled Birch Bark.
He picked it up on junk day, and painted it pink..

There were no holes to patch, just some thin spots on the bottom.
I sanded the entire outside, and glassed just the outside with 6 oz fiber glass cloth, and epoxy resin. I then painted it black.

That boat is still serviceable today. I glassed it over ten years ago.

Definitely go with epoxy, and I'd glass the whole thing. That's me. Patching is too temporary for me. Epoxy and a full layer of cloth will give you some permanence.

Jim

 

[yellowcanoe]

I've used bondo..It was far from permanent in my clumsy hands.

I mention flotation as in a 12 foot boat for two, upsets will happen. Without it, your work and boat will sink.

 

[ross93]

i decided Im going to go through with attempting to repair it. not sure on what extent ill go but ill start with patching the holes/old patches then, if its not to bad ill put a layer on the exterior.

i think i bought the wrong stuff. i bought fiberglass mat (the loose stuff) and then polyester resin. is there much advantage to epoxy? its twice the price and id have to order it. should i have gotten fiberglass cloth? it looks like the boat has large weave cloth on interior then mat then fine cloth on exterior (i could be wrong)
also i cant tell how may layers of glass on this boat. i read ppl recommend 3 or 4 layers. sound about right?

yellowcanoe flotation foam in the front and back enclosed (or was) area? if so it looks like one is about 80% filled with it. i could ad some or remove the old while im in there

 

[yellowcanoe]

I have seen Dolphins with mat. But fiberglass cloth is stronger. Be aware that every layer will add significant weight.

Id add some waterproof foam in a can insulation for flotation.

Your first job is sanding..If you never have had the joy of sanding a canoe its a big job. Take the time and money to get a good respirator. You do not want a lung disease from fiberglass particles.

 

[Jim Dodd]

I have seen Dolphins with mat. But fiberglass cloth is stronger. Be aware that every layer will add significant weight.

Id add some waterproof foam in a can insulation for flotation.

Your first job is sanding..If you never have had the joy of sanding a canoe its a big job. Take the time and money to get a good respirator. You do not want a lung disease from fiberglass particles.

Great advice on respirator !

Epoxy, well worth the extra expense ! If you are going to do something, do it right, or you'll just be wasting time and money. But you will learn from it.

 

[Alan Gage]

Epoxy generally doesn't work with glass mat, so keep that in mind. I've never worked with mat but I'd think cloth would be better. While you're ordering things get some release treated peel ply too. It will make filling the weave and blending those patches into the hull much easier. Only about $8/yard and just one will probably do it.

Alan

 

[ross93]

so should i use mat or cloth?
im thinking a quart or pint would be more than enough to do the patching. how much would do an extra exterior covering?

 

[Jim Dodd]

Mat will soak up a lot of resin, and won't have the strength of woven cloth.
If you have a deep depression, mat will fill it better, because of it's thickness. Again woven is stronger.

 

[Alan Gage]

so should i use mat or cloth?

I don't know anyone that uses mat although someone must because they still sell it. If you use epoxy you can't use mat, they don't work together.

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

I don't know anyone that uses mat although someone must because they still sell it. If you use epoxy you can't use mat, they don't work together.

Alan

OK, why wouldn't epoxy work to wet out a patch of mat ? Maybe I'm missing something.