​DIY Canoe Rudder

[Jim Dodd]

HMMM ? Mike
It sounds like you need to build a Stripper to fill your bill !


Jim

 

[Guest]

It sounds like you need to build a Stripper to fill your bill !

I love me some time in the shop, but the idea of building a stripper, or even a stitch and glue kit, has never held any appeal for me.

My shop skill and tools (and interest) are best suited for rebuilding wrecks and outfitting. I have been searching far and wide for an inexpensive summer shop rebuild project and have one coming in a few weeks. A ’76 Klepper Kamerad TS (Tandem Sailing).

https://www.google.com/search?q=kle...e%2Fpaddeln%2Fklepper_kamerad_ts.html;931;740

It is beat to heck and should be a good test of my repair skills, but it was designed as a sailing craft and has the complete rudder assembly (needs modern foot controls and etc), so once soloized and outfitted it should make another nice decked sailing canoe for coastal bays and big lakes.

I seem to be collecting 40 year old tandem decked boats to gut, repair and convert to solo sailing trippers, and the Kamerad should fit in nicely with the 1977 Old Town Sockeye, 1970 Hyperform Optima and vintage Phoenix Vagabond.



There were more of those oddball boats built in the 70’s than I knew or yet know. Folbot built a hardshell tandem, as did Bavaria Boote. Actually, they still do; the Columbia (nee Amazonas) and the Missouri.

http://bavariaboote.de/kajaks/bavaria-boote-kajak

I’ve seen a few of those kicking around for sale. Heavy as heck, but on many of those old 70’s hulls a good portion of the weight was the horrible to-be-gutted outfitting.

 

[Alan Gage]

How wide are you making your control arms? I was thinking about 8". Seems the only effect the width has is the ratio of the pedal to rudder movement?

Alan

 

[Guest]

How wide are you making your control arms? I was thinking about 8". Seems the only effect the width has is the ratio of the pedal to rudder movement?

The arms don’t need to be very wide. On a Feathercraft rudder they are 6” wide. Same for the Optima rudder and the DIY canoe rudder we’ve built. The Monarch arms are only 4” wide. Those widths seem to produce a comfortable amount of foot steering, with an inch of off offset pressing on the pedals moving the rudder agreeably.

Too small and the rudder angle would become a delicate business, needing a too teensy press to hold a desired line. The antique Klepper rudder has a 10” spread on the control arms. I haven’t had that boat in the water yet with the rudder installed, but I suspect the amount of foot movement will seem excessive at first.

The size and depth of the “shoulders” that sandwich the top of the blade seems more critical, especially if using an oversized rudder on a gear laden tripping canoe.

Rocky Headland’s photos of the Kruger rudder housing would make a good starting point for a design. The Kruger rudder housing also allows for a lower pivot point on the rudder blade.

 

[Beachcamper]

Mike, thank you for posting this. I am interested in putting a rudder on my solo canoe and your instructions are very clear. Does it matter what the length of the rudder blade should be and how is this figured? I would be very interested in buying the template or a rudder blade from you if you are selling them.

 

[Guest]

How does 49 cents sound?

Just send me a PM with your mailing address and I’ll trace out a template of the large rudder I cut out for the Penobscot.

The length does matter. More critical are the odd Dr Seuss curves at the top, which allow the rudder, retract and gravity deploy via a single line. You might want to cut a thin Lauan mock-up and try that to make sure the pivot hole and Seuss shape works before cutting the final aluminum rudder.

Once you have that top shape that works it is easy to cut different length (or width) rudders if need be. I have been using sign aluminum, but something thicker would be better. The OEM rudders on the Monarch and Optima are 1/8 inch thick and those work better than the sign aluminum.

 

[Beachcamper]

Thanks Mike, I had sent you a PM and wondered if you got it.

 

[Guest]

Thanks Mike, I had sent you a PM and wondered if you got it.

I got it and replied. I have some difficulty in sending PM’s. My reply may have arrived as a “Visitor message”

I traced out and mailed templates for three DIY rudders. You should get those any day now.

The variations are due to different DIY rudder housings, pivot and pin size and location. The critical part is to shape those top end Dr. Suess curves for the pivot point (PP) and the single gravity retraction line (GRL) so that they work with the gudgeons or housing.

In retrospect, after some finicky hours of putting the DIY versions together, taking them apart to tweak, together, apart, rinse and repeat and repeat using a manufactured rudder like a Feathercraft and replacing the blade with something custom cut & sized for canoe use, would be way easier.

 

[Beachcamper]

Never got a reply. Looking forward to tinkering with adding a rudder to my canoe. Thanks again!

 

[ozarkpaddler1]

This is a great thread, very informative and excellent information. Just what I've been looking for. Building this rudder will be one of my winter projects.

Are there any problems with the rudder being pushed up by the water flow since there is nothing but gravity holding it down? Seems like it would want to ride up but I guess maybe not.

Thanks John

 

[Alan Gage]

Are there any problems with the rudder being pushed up by the water flow since there is nothing but gravity holding it down? Seems like it would want to ride up but I guess maybe not.

Thanks John

I wondered the same thing. Doesn't seem like it should work but I guess it does as I never hear anyone complaining about it.

Alan

 

[Guest]

Are there any problems with the rudder being pushed up by the water flow since there is nothing but gravity holding it down? Seems like it would want to ride up but I guess maybe not.

Not at all. Even the lighter sign aluminum is weighty enough to be held down in the water at speed by gravity. The thicker aluminum stock of the Kruger (or antique Klepper) rudders is heavier still, and will gravity deploy with a resounding CLUNK if you let the deployment line freefall.

The biggest issue* with those DIY canoe rudders is designing in big vertical “shoulders” on the rudder blade housing, to keep the rudder from wanking from side to side (see RockyHeadlands photos pages above). Using thicker aluminum stock than the sign material would help a good deal in that regard as well.

BTW – I think I found the ideal stock from which to cut a rudder. Tractor Supply had sheets of metal stock thicker than sign aluminum 24 inches long x 12 inches wide (or thereabouts, I’m guessing from memory, didn’t measure) for $10.

*OK, the other biggest issue is that the gravity rudder, even fully “retracted” sticks out some behind the stern, where it can bang into things. It’s hard to keep a weather eye on the stern when you are drifting in an eddy or finagling through some shoreline narrows.

 

[Guest]

More on control arm spread.

. On a Feathercraft rudder they are 6” wide. Same for the Optima rudder and the DIY canoe rudder we’ve built. The Monarch arms are only 4” wide. Those widths seem to produce a comfortable amount of foot steering, with an inch of off offset pressing on the pedals moving the rudder agreeably.

The antique Klepper rudder has a 10” spread on the control arms. I haven’t had that boat in the water yet with the rudder installed, but I suspect the amount of foot movement will seem excessive at first.

I think I just realized why the rudder pedals on the Klepper Kamerad continue to feel so odd to me. The spread where the steering cables are attached to the housing arms on the Klepper is a bigfooted 10 inches wide. Not 4 to 6 inches apart as one every other ruddered hull, ten inches.

Which is twice the distance that seems to work best for foot pedal control on any other ruddered hull. Methinks that is too far a travel distance for foot steering with a simple ankle pivot. It’s more like leg steering, and then I can’t keep my heels and knees braced in the same place. Me no like.

I need to try the Comrade with the steering cables moved inward a couple inches on each side. I like being able to plant my heels and knees in one brace place and throw the rudder side to side with my toes.

 

[ozarkpaddler1]

Hard to tell about the exact position from the pictures, different shots look different. Do you recommend keeping the bottom of the rudder blade even with the bottom of the keel or does it extend below the keel line? Does it make any difference?

Guess if it was below the bottom of the boat the blade would have access to clean water, less turbulence but it would also be more likely to drag.

John

 

[Guest]

Hard to tell about the exact position from the pictures, different shots look different. Do you recommend keeping the bottom of the rudder blade even with the bottom of the keel or does it extend below the keel line? Does it make any difference?

Guess if it was below the bottom of the boat the blade would have access to clean water, less turbulence but it would also be more likely to drag.

Yeah, size does matter. The canoe rudders we have made are all still in the experimental stage and being incrementally improved. I claim no expertise, but can make some observations.

Some of the various rudders in the photos are different sizes (and shapes). We cut new, longer rudders for a couple boats, and changed the gudgeon mounting for one so that it was hung and pivoted from a point lower on the canoe’s stem.

In that sense it pays to have a rudder housing on which the rudder blade can be easily removed/replaced. That could extend to using a wider and not as long rudder for trips with lots of shallow water and a longer rudder on deepwater.

Some other experimental observations. Bigger boats (read “canoe”) need a bigger rudder, no surprise there.

Canoe rudders need to have more surface area than a typical kayak rudder. The rudder on a Feathercraft single is essentially a narrow rectangle 3” x 20”. The rudder for a beamier tandem kayaks if often a Feathercraft double, which is the same length but 5” wide.

Size matters or, more specifically, surface area matters. Which can be achieved with more width as easily as with more length. Hum, I feel like I’m quoting from a Dan Savage column.

On every boat I have seen with an OEM rudder, kayaks and sea canoes, the blade does extend below the bottom of the boat. Sometimes well below, so I think you are right about that area being “cleaner” water, with less turbulence.

If there is a (slight) noticeable increase in drag from using a bigger rudder that is a small price to pay for better control and fewer correction strokes in wind or under sail.

Of course, when you don’t need the rudder drag you just retract it. In that regard a “fully” retractable rudder that pivots up 270 degrees to lay flat on the back deck, as with most kayak rudders, would be a huge boon. A simple gravity deploy rudder sticks up __/ exposed off the stern, which can be a wave slap issue with a choppy tailwind and leaves the blade more prone to damage when the stern bangs into something.

Are there any problems with the rudder being pushed up by the water flow since there is nothing but gravity holding it down?

I should clarify my answer to that. Even with a fully retractable Feathercraft rudder that uses a loop of line for active-pull deployment or retraction, the rudder will ride up a bit sometimes. If I have a full head of steam under sail the rudder blade will sometimes lay out more \ than | , but it still has sufficient blade in the water for easy control.

I’m guessing that at higher speeds the rudder may actually become more effective, needing less surface in the water. That’s too deep in the nautical engineering and marine architectural realm for me.

The same thing happens if I run over a shallows and the rudder drags up \ . (BTW, remember to never back up with the rudder deployed. Especially if you hang in the shallows)

One difference between a the pull cord controls that actively deploy a Feathercraft type rudder and a Kruger-style gravity deploy is that the gravity rudder drops back to vertical on its own when I slow down or I have crossed the shallows back into deeper water.

The Feathercraft rudder stays angled out and it usually takes me several minutes of awkward control loss to figure out “Oh yeah, pull the rudder back fully down dummy”.

That is all very unintentional dissing of Feathercraft rudders. They are simple, dependable and they work. I’d really like to find a used Feathercraft rudder someone took off a kayak and try to adapt that (with a larger blade) to a canoe. Somewhere in this thread or another are photos of just such a build (maybe using a Smarttrack rudder, a design which seems over engineered and over delicate).

Finding one of those keep-it-simple antique rudder housing/control arm pieces that are on my (and Doug’s) Hyperform Optimas would make the build exponentially easier.



I’m kind of surprised that no one has come up with a more functional canoe rudder mount and housing. Something easily installed and detachable, including the control lines, with easy blade size inter-change for more universal use on different canoes.

I know there is some better way. My money’s on the Iowa boys.

 

[Guest]

I think I found the ideal stock from which to cut a rudder. Tractor Supply had sheets of metal stock thicker than sign aluminum 24 inches long x 12 inches wide (or thereabouts, I’m guessing from memory, didn’t measure) for $10.

Nix that. I was up in that neck of the woods this morning and went back to Tractor Supply to check. That ideally sized and thickness plate is plain sheet metal, not aluminum. It would rust too quickly.

 

[ozarkpaddler1]

Have you or anyone else thought of using a large stainless steel hinge as the pivot for this rudder? Are there problems with this approach that I am not seeing? biggest problem I can see is the pin being of pretty small diameter or maybe grit or sand clogging the hinge and causing it to freeze do to the tight fitting parts. Seems like it could simplify things. Just a thought.

John R

 

[joebh]

Mike re your comment. "Canoe rudders need to have more surface area than a typical kayak rudder. The rudder on a Feathercraft single is essentially a narrow rectangle 3” x 20”. The rudder for a beamier tandem kayaks if often a Feathercraft double, which is the same length but 5” wide.
""
Feathercraft makes a 25" long tandem rudder which I plan to mount in my canoe for sailing it
Top kayaker sells it as well as Feathercraft
I envision mounting it in a triangular block fitted to the stern above the flotation tank

 

[Guest]

Have you or anyone else thought of using a large stainless steel hinge as the pivot for this rudder? Are there problems with this approach that I am not seeing? biggest problem I can see is the pin being of pretty small diameter or maybe grit or sand clogging the hinge and causing it to freeze do to the tight fitting parts. Seems like it could simplify things. Just a thought.

I know that there is some Michigan (or Minnesota maybe) fraternity of guys who have installed canoe rudders in just that fashion, but was never able to find any photos or how-to.

Feathercraft makes a 25" long tandem rudder which I plan to mount in my canoe for sailing it
Top kayaker sells it as well as Feathercraft

Right you are. The 20x5 was a measurement taken from an oversized OEM Feathercraft rudder on one of my boats. It may be that some manufacturers use custom-sized blades on their Feathercraft rudders.