Citizen Race Canoe Suggestions?

[JCH_Ski]

So, I’m looking for recommendations for good canoe models for citizen racing. Not pro boats! It turns out the AuSable River Canoe Marathon added an event last year, called the AuSable River Challenge 120. It starts at 7am on Friday, the day before the main event, and covers the same 120 mile course, with 6 portages over the dams, etc. Paddlers can use whatever paddlecraft they choose (kayaks, solo canoes, tandem canoes, SUPs, etc., single or double blade). You have 29 hours to complete it. This year there were 11 entries, and I think 6 finished. Last year it was 9 and 4.

I’m kind of toying with the idea of training for this for next year. Or at least making a solo attempt. I’m not looking to win - just finish within the 29 hours.

Last week I paddled the whole river over 4 days, averaging 30 miles per day (max was 34), in my Blacklite Northwind Solo. Altogether (including a bunch of extra time taking portage setup videos and watching otters, as well as frequently switching from kneeling to sitting, to relieve my seized up ankles and Achilles), it took me 29-1/2 hours, but I wasn‘t doing it all in one non-stop effort, so I assume I’d end up slowing down a lot. I paddled pretty seriously, but by no means at a race pace. The canoe worked well, but I’d hate to destroy the boat, paddling at night. So I’m starting to think about what canoe models I should look for used, to make the whole thing as easy on myself as possible. Problem is, the NW Solo weighs 28 lbs, so ideally I want something comparably light, but hopefully faster than a tripping boat. And cheap (well-used is preferable, so I don’t have to worry about it). I know - I cannot have fast, light AND cheap. But what would be good models to watch for? Anything I could pick up used for roughly $1000 (under $2k, for sure) that would be a good low-level river/general race boat? Scratched yet seaworthy.

I‘m in Upper Michigan, if that helps. So anywhere in Michigan or Wisconsin, and maybe Minnesota would be the search area. I know Wenonah is big in the region, but not sure what models to look for. Or other brands.

Also, I’m a 57 yo woman, currently well above my normal weight (180 right now )

 

[Alan Gage]

I'd look for a Wenona advantage. Fairly fast but still friendly and there should be enough of them in the region that they won't be impossible to find. A magic wouldn't be a bad choice either.

Alan

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Or an old Sawyer.

 

[scoutergriz]

Or an old Sawyer.

Yup, a cruiser or 18 make excellent downriver racing boats.

 

[JCH_Ski]

I neglected to mention, this would be a solo

 

[JCH_Ski]

Ooh - maybe a Sawyer Summersong or Shock Wave

 

[Alan Gage]

There are a fair number of Sawyers out there but it will be more difficult to find them in an ultralight layup.

A couple more Wenonah hulls would be the Prism and Whisper.

There are a lot of Prisms out there. The Whispers are very rare so it's not likely you'll find one. As far as I know they were a sister boat to the Advantage but made for smaller paddlers. It's 15' long. A friend of mine has one and I've paddled it a few times. Nice boat.

Alan

 

[zehyani]

does it have to be a stock boat, or do you want a racing solo?
There is a website called Rivermiles where this sort of stuff is discussed.
I would suggest looking at.
1. Savage River Blackwater. probably too expensive
2. Wenonah Advantage.
3. Sawyer DS or Shockwave.
4, GRB newman classic.

Or some kind of used C1 race boat. They are light and fast, but thats all i know about them

 

[JCH_Ski]

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I think I will try to find a well-used Sawyer Shockwave, DS or Summersong. I like the idea of getting a canoe with a history tied to the area where it will be used the most. If that doesn’t work out, I could probably find an older Advantage.

Looks like I missed out on a Shockwave AND a Summersong in just the last week, before I knew I wanted one. So maybe that means I’ll actually be able to find one before the dream goes bust.

 

[JCH_Ski]

does it have to be a stock boat, or do you want a racing solo?
There is a website called Rivermiles where this sort of stuff is discussed.
I would suggest looking at.
1. Savage River Blackwater. probably too expensive
2. Wenonah Advantage.
3. Sawyer DS or Shockwave.
4, GRB newman classic.

Or some kind of used C1 race boat. They are light and fast, but thats all i know about them

I think I’d prefer a stock boat. I don’t plan to get into racing (but who knows?), just some long challenges. I’d feel out of place and conspicuously untalented in a real race boat. The ARC120 is the day before the AuSable River Canoe Marathon (the big deal), and covers the same course. it only had 9 entries last year, and 11 this year - it’s just getting off the ground. I’m not even sure I will do the event, but I’d at least like to try it on my own. And I think some people enter it just to see how far they can get. One person this year appeared to paddle as far as she could get before dark. I’m only pursuing the “new” boat for this because I’d hate to punch a hole in the Blacklite NW Solo in the dark, and if I’m getting another canoe, it should be something faster than a normal tripper.

Anyway, good list. I looked at the Blackwater online - awesome boat, but definitely too expensive, and I assume used ones are also too expensive.

 

[zehyani]

i have an advantage and think it would be a great canoe for a fast stock race or a fast tripping canoe.
I misspoke. It's a Sawyer DY special, not DS special. I have not seen a light one, but it is a fast and to me stable canoe.

 

[JCH_Ski]

i have an advantage and think it would be a great canoe for a fast stock race or a fast tripping canoe.
I misspoke. It's a Sawyer DY special, not DS special. I have not seen a light one, but it is a fast and to me stable canoe.

The more I read (obsessively), the more I want one - DY Special. It really sounds like a fantastic boat. Or Shockwave. Or Summersong. Can’t find anything available anywhere, at the moment.

edited to add: Although, I am a little worried about being able to turn it, on the river.

 

[tketcham]

Or Shockwave. Or Summersong. Can’t find anything available anywhere, at the moment.

It'd be a long drive from Michigan but there's a Shockwave for sale at Hemlock Canoes in w. New York.

 

[JCH_Ski]

Yeah, it’s a long way - especially from toward the far end of the UP. Which is probably for the best, since we just got home from vacation to a credit card bill, homeowners’ insurance, auto insurance on both vehicles, and property taxes, all due in late August/early September. Guess I will have to be responsible for a while. . If those are somehow still hanging around after that, maybe we will see about a little trip. I can dream!

 

[tketcham]

Dreaming is good and you have your priorities straight. Who knows, a local deal on a fast solo canoe may come your way at just the right time.

 

[zehyani]

Michigan Canoe Racing Association

Promoting Marathon Canoe Racing in Michigan

miracing.com

Michigan canoe racing page.
There must be other canoe clubs around as well.
I am sure there are lots of people who can help, paddle with and train.

BTW, I bought my advantage from someone who advertised it on BWCA.com.
Good luck.

 

[Alan Gage]

Someone please tell me what to get! . If one of you sounds really knowledgeable and tells me “get a Shockwave in Expedition Kevlar”, or some other combination, that’s likely what I will look for.

I'll try to sound knowledgeable for you. No guarantees on the authenticity of it though.

Once upon a time I used to race canoes and kayaks. I took it pretty seriously for a few years. I was never very good but I owned a lot of different boats and learned quite a bit from the experience.

For starters no one has yet broken the laws of physics. There is a lot of hype from manufacturers and owners about how fast this or that boat is but when it comes right down to it there is very little difference, and I mean very little difference, between similar hulls. A 16' solo canoe that's 29" wide with slight rocker is going to be almost identical in speed to any other solo canoe with similar specs. I think, over the course of a race, you would have very similar times in a Magic, Prism, Summersong, Shockwave, Advantage, or Blackwater, and plenty of other hulls. In fact it's possible you could have better times in some of the "slower" boats due to being more comfortable over the course of a long and tiring race.

Even comparing a semi-fast solo canoe like a Magic or Shockwave to something like a more dedicated racing hull will see little difference for a recreational paddler. A more skilled racer can coax a lot of extra speed out of a faster hull but most of us mortals will see very little speed difference over the course of a race at the levels of output we're able to sustain. Those higher speeds come at a price, they aren't free.

I'll give you a little example of what I mean. When I started racing kayaks I had a QCC600x that wold probably be equivalent to something like a Magic. It was a performance touring kayak. I started training and did a couple races and was convinced I was maxing out the speed of the hull. Over a 6 mile race I'd average about 5.2mph.

So I bought a West Side Thunderbolt that would have been the equivalent of a J-boat in canoes. It was 21' long and 18" wide and it looked like a rocket. As soon as I got it on the water I gave it a full out sprint and couldn't believe how much faster it was than the QCC! But then I paddled it for 6 miles and my average speed was only 5.4mph. Barely faster than the QCC!

Now there is no doubt that Thunderbolt was a much faster hull than the QCC but as someone who was a decent paddler in decent shape I wasn't able to take advantage of that speed. Over the next couple years I trained hard and I was able to push the hull up to 6.7mph over a 6 mile course and there were still more gains to be made had I stuck with it.

And remember that QCC I thought I'd maxed out at 5.2mph? I was now able to average 6mph in it.

I guess what I'm trying to say, in a long winded way, is that unless you really want to get serious about racing then don't worry so much about the boat. You'll get similar performance from anything in the category you're looking at. Skill, technique, stamina, and strength will give you more improvement than this or that hull.

For racing or fitness paddling I prefer a canoe with minimal rocker just to minimize the number of times you have to switch sides. No, they won't turn as quickly, but they still do turn and the more skilled you become the faster you can make it happen.

Paddling them up or down a river at a fast pace is a different skillset than paddling a more maneuverable canoe but it can be just as rewarding. Rather than making quick turns and adjustments you'll be looking farther up/down the river and planning your course in advance. With practice you can enter/exit eddies, go around obstructions, and take corners without breaking your rhythm or using steering strokes. I wouldn't want to be paddling CII rapids in them but from the rivers you describe I don't think that will be an issue.

I've owned a couple old Sawyers from the early 80's in Golden Glass and I wouldn't call it a very robust layup, at least not now that they're 40 years old. I thought they seemed fairly brittle. I had another from the early 90's in kevlar and that still seemed to be a strong layup. How they were stored over the years (in or out of the sun) might have made a difference.

If I was you I'd be tempted to grab the first thing that came along if the price was right. Since you don't know what you want the chances of getting the right boat the first time are slim. So just get something that will get you on the water in an efficient solo canoe. If it turns out you really like it then start looking for something better. The more time you spend on the water in a solo canoe the more you'll learn about what you do and don't like and what to look for in the next one.

Alan

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I agree with the general principles Alan Gage has posted, although I've never paddled any Sawyers.

a) Shockwave
b) Summersong

The Shockwave was designed as a USCA marathon and triathlon racing canoe. HERE is its catalog description.

The Summersong was designed as a performance touring canoe for paddlers in the 135-175 lb. range. HERE and HERE are it's catalog pages.

Would I be better off with the shorter boat for the river?

As a general principle, shorter canoe will turn more easily and in a shorter radius than longer canoe. A longer canoe of similar shape will in theory have a higher maximum speed. But, as Alan points out, that may be meaningless as a practical matter to the average cruising paddler. In fact, a shorter canoe may paddle easier at cruising speeds because it has less water friction drag. A conditioned racer would likely race faster in a Shockwave than a Summersong, but that doesn't necessarily make it a better average paddler or recreational touring canoe.

And which layup is more durable?
1) Goldenglass
2) Expedition Kevlar

Both are mixes of fiberglass and Kevlar. I suspect there is a lot more fiberglass in the Goldenglass layup than in the Expedition Kevlar layup because, in the second Summersong catalog page, the Goldenglass layup weighs 42 lbs. whereas the Expedition Kevlar weighs 32 lbs. That would make me think the Goldenglass layup is likely somewhat stiffer and more durable.

 

[JCH_Ski]

Thanks, you guys!

I’m not so much concerned about overall speed, just maybe ease of paddling? I’m not looking for a full-on race boat, but would like something that likes to cruise. And since I want this specifically to try this ARC120 event, I don’t want to bash up my beautiful new NW Solo in the dark. Durable and old (low price), and preferably light-ish. Maneuverability is a concern.

 

[tketcham]

JCH_Ski,​

I haven't paddled either of those Sawyer solos you're asking about but I have paddled a Wenonah Advantage in a lot of conditions that you might encounter in that race or out paddling for a day. I no longer own the Advantage - I discovered sport canoes and couldn't keep all those boats so something had to go - but it remains one of my all time favorite canoes. It does go plenty fast for a recreational canoe but it could also handle some choppy waves, moderate current (not really whitewater), narrow twisty streams with beaver dams, and maneuvering through and around downed trees and stumps in a swamp. Was it the best canoe for most of those conditions? Of course not, and why I'm now more of a sport canoe guy. But I made the Advantage work for me because that's what I had. I think you'll find the same for the Shock Wave; you get used to the boat and you make it work.




As for the layups, I think the Expedition Kevlar is just what you're looking for based on the descriptions. (I don't know if they changed their layups after the late 1980's.)



As others have mentioned, in the end you just have to narrow down your priorities for performance, buy something you can afford that is well within that performance range, and then learn how to paddle it effectively with efficiency. That's part of the fun of canoeing.