Boat Buying

[schledog]

I’m in the market for a whitewater canoe. I have limited experience with river paddling but I want to get more into it. I’m looking at doing the Bloodvein this summer and have a strong interest in other longer river trips after that. I have two main questions. T-Formex or Royalex? I’m looking at a used Spirit II in either and the T-Formex is cheaper. I’m a college student and I can afford either but it’d also be nice to save some money if it’s not a big deal. My only other question is if I should instead be looking at solo canoeing? I have friends who are very talented whitewater canoeists but they’re also very hard to pin down and I don’t know who else I would trip with. I consider myself a pretty experienced outdoorsman and would be confident in doing a shorter solo trip like the Bloodvein (if I got more solo experience before then). I’d hit up the Flambeau and Brule solo to get a feel for it. Sort of a long question but I’d appreciate any advice!
Also, just thought I’d ask, is the Spirit II an appropriate model for extended wilderness travel? From what I’ve read it looks like it but I’m not the best with that sort of logistics.

 

[kona]

Sounds like a lot of good questions that would benefit from your own first hand experience to answer.

Starting on the brule and the flambeau is a great idea. Trying out solo is a great idea too.

Someone here has mentioned they avoid royalex longer than 16.5’ and I think that’s a pretty solid point. And I love royalex for rocky rivers. Spirit II is a big boat and the wenonah royalex has always been prone to oil canning.

not sure where you are but we have a decent crew of open boat whitewater paddlers in the twin cities if you ever want to connect.

 

[schledog]

Sounds like a lot of good questions that would benefit from your own first hand experience to answer.

Starting on the brule and the flambeau is a great idea. Trying out solo is a great idea too.

Someone here has mentioned they avoid royalex longer than 16.5’ and I think that’s a pretty solid point. And I love royalex for rocky rivers. Spirit II is a big boat and the wenonah royalex has always been prone to oil canning.

not sure where you are but we have a decent crew of open boat whitewater paddlers in the twin cities if you ever want to connect.

I’m in Bozeman for college right now but I’m originally from the cities. I’d love to get connected with some other paddlers and get some more first hand experience!

 

[kona]

@schledog if the timing works out you might consider participating in the two weekend Canoe-U course the local club puts on usually late May into early June. Tandem and solo options usually with boats available for cheap rental. ACA instructors and a crew of safety boaters to help you push the limits and really learn. https://www.rapidsriders.org/canoeu

 

[schledog]

@schledog if the timing works out you might consider participating in the two weekend Canoe-U course the local club puts on usually late May into early June. Tandem and solo options usually with boats available for cheap rental. ACA instructors and a crew of safety boaters to help you push the limits and really learn. https://www.rapidsriders.org/canoeu

I looked at doing it last year and never committed because I was very busy and unfortunately that’s the case again. A friend of mine who’s paddled the Coppermine has given me a lot of advice on reading water and I paddled the lower Kinnickinnic with him this summer so I do have experience with class I/light II. With all the rain this summer the Kinni was running beautifully and I would highly highly recommend sending it in a canoe if you get the opportunity and conditions are right. It’s only like 40 minutes from where I live in the cities and the lower stretch is completely undeveloped.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I’m in the market for a whitewater canoe. I have limited experience with river paddling but I want to get more into it. I’m looking at doing the Bloodvein this summer and have a strong interest in other longer river trips after that. I have two main questions. T-Formex or Royalex? I’m looking at a used Spirit II in either and the T-Formex is cheaper. I’m a college student and I can afford either but it’d also be nice to save some money if it’s not a big deal. My only other question is if I should instead be looking at solo canoeing? I have friends who are very talented whitewater canoeists but they’re also very hard to pin down and I don’t know who else I would trip with. I consider myself a pretty experienced outdoorsman and would be confident in doing a shorter solo trip like the Bloodvein (if I got more solo experience before then). I’d hit up the Flambeau and Brule solo to get a feel for it. Sort of a long question but I’d appreciate any advice!
Also, just thought I’d ask, is the Spirit II an appropriate model for extended wilderness travel? From what I’ve read it looks like it but I’m not the best with that sort of logistics.

To answer your easiest question - all else being equal and the canoes the same model, I would choose T-Formex over Royalex for one unavoidable reason. Both are subject to age related deterioration, and the T-Formex boat will always be newer than any Royalex boat.

As to the solo canoe question, paddling technical whitewater solo will be easier in a solo size whitewater canoe - again, all else being equal. But the variety of hull shapes that make different canoe shapes handle differently makes that a very loose generalization. More generalization that might be helpful is that canoes with soft chines and moderate rocker tend to be more forgiving in moving water. That's why the Prospector-ish models are popular. You can ignore the above waterline shape as long as the canoe has decent depth, but a shape below the waterline that is reasonably similar to the various Prospector canoes is a good place to start.

As for the Spirit II, I haven't paddled one, but it has a reputation of being a good all-around tandem that can handle some class 2 in moderately skilled hands.

 

[kona]

Awesome. we love the lower kinni. that’s where my profile pic is from.

On the boat question I’d say get whatever you can to get the stoke up and get you on the water as often as possible. S2 is a good all a rounder though a little on the bigger end of the size range. People love that boat.

If the bug really bites, it might not be your last boat. No single hull can do it all perfectly. I always see nice boats pop up for sale in Montana! Good luck with the hunt.

Holler when you’re back around if you want to connect. We get out on rivers several times a month and on lakes much more often. At some point consider a proper class. It will help you be safer, stretch, and learn your limits etc.

 

[Alan Gage]

I think the Bloodvein is a good river for beginner whitewater paddlers. When I ran it I'd never really done any whitewater at all.

It's easy to find rapid locations and classifications.

All rapids have easy to find and well traveled portages around them if necessary.

The rapids are short and steep with large eddies below them so a dump won't result in you and your gear being flushed downstream for 1/2 a mile.

The first few days rapids are spread apart to ease you into it.

My goal was to run CII and below and I was successful for the most part. I seem to recall a couple CII rapids I didn't run because at the water level they appeared more difficult. There were also some rated CIII that I was able to run.

Other than the rapids the river is almost entirely flat water (hardly any current between drops) with some good sized lakes so keep that in mind when it comes to boat selection.

Tandem Vs. Solo is a very personal thing. For me solo is the only way to go. Other people prefer going with at least one friend and do not enjoy solo tripping.

A Spirit II should be fine for a trip like that assuming you'll be portaging the larger rapids.

Alan

 

[schledog]

I appreciate the advice everyone, I’m going to get the T-formex boat and get more river experience with it. I can always sell it if I find a different one eventually or want to switch to solo whitewater. Excited to get on the water and get the stoke up as Kona said!

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I think a Spirit II is a good choice for a one and only canoe. And I would advise you to look into canoe poling, since it will also be good for that.

 

[ppine]

Some friends rented a Spirit II for a week long trip on the Willamette River in Oregon. I like those canoes. They capsized once, but the recovery went well in a run out.

 

[memaquay]

I used a kevlar Spirit II on a ten day trip. Ran lots of white water, some pretty big stuff too. Had a light weight girl in the bow, she was sometimes pretty high up in the air, but the canoe performed well. Fast on the flats too, although I'm not sure how the rubber version would compare. Buddy of mine who is quite informed used a a T formex boat this summer. He said it was softer than the old royalex. more akin to the royalite one used to be able to get from Nova Craft.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

He said it was softer than the old royalex. more akin to the royalite one used to be able to get from Nova Craft.

I wonder if he would have said the same thing if both were new. I've had only one brand new royalex canoe, but I recall that it was considerably softer than those I had which were a few years old. Makes me wonder if T-formex stiffens with age too. I'd be surprised if it didn't.

 

[memaquay]

I wouldn't want to speculate, as I have no experience with t formex. However, I have lots of experience with royalite, their makeup was indeed soft, and the hulls routinely oil canned, but still were good boats. Our school club has been running them hard now for over 15 years, they look fairly beat up, but we haven't destroyed one yet. I saw his t-formex canoe brand new before he left for a trip, and afterwards.....let's just say it was a different looking boat afterward, looked well used.

 

[clemency]

Had a Spirit II in rx for a while, and loved it. Very forgiving hull, and fast enough. No whitewater for us, but it would've worked fine up to easy Class II I suspect as long as playing wasn't on the agenda. No oilcanning with that (not new) boat either. I miss it and would buy another in a lighter layup.