BIG Dog Solo

[Black_Fly]

My tripping partner, Bogan is only 55 lbs. I can barely keep my solo canoe trimmed with him in the front. I noticed some folks here have bigger canoe pups. Any advice for getting a 60-90 lb. dog around in a solo boat? It seems a yellow lab puppy followed me home yesterday.

A small tandem could be in my future, I'm afraid. Or, has anyone moved the seat/thwarts on a solo to accommodate a big front load?

 

[ppine]

I just put a solo seat in an OT Canadienne. We talked about it before. My companion Ruby Begonia, is a 60 pound BC. She is a well trained dog so I can use her to trim the boat. I ended up the solo seat about 9 inches behind the balance point of the canoe. The canoe is well trimmed for day trips. It should be easy to keep trimmed with dunnage for over night.

 

[Black_Fly]

Forester,
How did you determine where the seat goes?

 

[ppine]

Black Fly,
I listened to a lot of people that have done the same thing. I looked at the waterline on the boat after paddling from the bow seat turned around. I did some reading. Right when I got balled up in agonizing about the precise location, I realized that I can move my little day trip cooler and my dog will stay where ever I tell her to in the boat to trim it. In the end I took the regular distance behind the balance point of around 4 inches and made it 9 inches. Compared to paddling from the bow seat, it is perfect. I am very happy with the results The boat has a beam around 32 inches so paddling from 9 inches back is easy and does not requiring any reaching.

The canoe still feels a little tender, but the whole waterline is in the water. It is a sweet boat with a lot of speed and plenty of capacity for overnight trips. After paddling a wood and canvas boat for so long the kevlar is just what an old guy needs. The secondary stability is really good.

 

[Black_Fly]

Do you think more rocker is an asset or liability in such a project? I can imagine it both ways.

 

[ppine]

I am a big fan of rocker for all kinds of boats. I paddle rivers mostly but have no problems with rocker in a canoe on a lake. Specifically for a solo boat, rocker makes the boat much more maneuverable. Say you are on a lake and a large power boat wake is coming your way, or there are confused seas, rocker makes the moves much easier. I feel safer in a sea kayak with rocker for the same reason. I have better control of the boat.

I used to have a Wenonah Odyssey, an 18 1/2 foot canoe with a straight keel. It is a downriver boat but not that easy to turn especially with a rookie paddler in the bow. I hated that boat at times because it just did not want to turn and got rid of it.

For people that are strictly lake paddlers, maybe you cannot relate. That is okay. I understand. I believe once people learn their strokes, having a boat that is responsive to turning is a huge asset.

 

[Waterdog]

I had an 86# Chessie and I weigh 215# in socks and skivies so I’m already at 300# without my tripping clothes, pfd, etc. I’ve always preferred a tandem with a bigger dog. I never felt like I gained anything by paddling with her in a solo. Without the dog I would paddle a dedicated solo. I now Have a new 10 week old Chessie. She will trip with me in one of the 16’ prospectors or Bell Northstar. The Northstar is an asymmetrical hull but if you remove the front seat for the dog it is a good compromise between a solo and tandem (speed vs. stability).

cheers,
Barry

 

[Black_Fly]

I paddled a prospector 16 from the bow seat. With a big dog but not a huge load though. It handled nice on calm water, but wind and waves made it squirrely. Also a little wide. In looking at specs, a Spirit II seems to be nearly ideal in hull, the rear seat moved forward and the front seat removed. 3" rocker on both ends was extreme for a lake tripper. Hard to even haul on some racks.

 

[gumpus]

I've found that some solos handle a dog better than others. I recently got a used Swift Keewaydin 15 and the trim is fine with my 60 pound pup right in front of me. Try that in a Wenonah Rendezvous and the boat is uncontrollable. Best dog boat I've ever had is a Swift Shearwater. It's happy with up to 320 pounds plus the sliding seat let's you move back to trim the boat for the dog's weight and it also makes more room for the dog. Hemlock sells a seat with fore/aft adjustment. My dog sits in front of me and behind the front thwart. If you're going to take both dogs seems like you need a tandem. I had a Royalex Rendezvous and replaced the rear thwart with a kneeling thwart to get it trimmed right for a 70 pound lab.

 

[Black_Fly]

Grumpus,
Do you think the keewaydin17 would handle better with a bigger dog? The hull shape looks ideal, the rear seat might need to be moved forward a scoshe. I could do that easily.

 

[ppine]

I used to paddle a Sawyer Cruiser with two big dogs in the bow and some camping gear. I paddled it from the rear tractor seat. One morning I was quietly paddling along on a gem perfect lake and a guy was drinking coffee on shore. He looked at my calm dogs and asked me "Hey buddy, are those dogs on their honeymoon?" It was funny then and it is still funny now.

 

[gumpus]

I can't comment on the Keewaydin 17 since I've never paddled one but it sure should give you space and capacity for at least 4 dogs. I've paddled the Keewaydin 16 and even that one is rated to handle 575 pounds efficiently. I agree that the rocker specs on the Keewaydins will keep them from getting blown around in wind like a Prospector. The 15 and 16 shrug off wind but are still easy to turn.

 

[Black_Fly]

I've looked at more models of short tandems than I ever wanted. Talked to people who sell canoes, one mfr. I'm liking the Bob Special over all the others. The Pal 16 also seemed good, but the dryer ride of the Bob Special seems right for windy, wavy conditions. Thanks for your help. If anyone knows where there's a Bob Special in Aramid Lite for sale let me know.

UPDATE: Ordered a Bob Special today. Aramid, standard trim. Won't be here until Spring, likely, about the time the pup gets bigger. Will start him this fall in the Prism. May rework the seat/thwart configuration when Bob arrives.

 

[Tsuga8]

Jumping on an old thread as it seems related....

I've been eyeing up all these sleek narrower dedicated solos with envy after years of soloing a 36" wide tandem. But, my 65lb mutt just can't sit still - he goes from one rail to the other, leaning after his nose.

I test paddled a Northwind Phoenix and Magic last fall, and was thinking about heading to the WA Solo Rendezvous to try more out, but I wouldn't take the dog to the Rendezvous, and don't want to demo a store boat with the dog either lest he scratch something (doubt they'd let me anyway).

Anyone paddle these 30" wide boats with such a rowdy canine companion? Does it work, or should I just stick with a wider boat?

 

[Gerald]

As Gumpus does, the dog should be in front of you. I find that in a +/- 15 foot solo having the dog in the middle of the canoe (specially a big dog) and the lighter packs further out loosens up the ends of the canoe for manoeuvring. Once in the canoe, the dog should remain quiet. This requires dry land training in most cases.

Gerald

 

[Jatfomike]

Heres a couple pics of my f@t @$$ and my 100#+ rescue mutt, Luca in my Northstar Phoenix......not enough room for the two of us in the center of the boat....his preference is to sit behind me so that he can see me and whatever is ahead.....my preference is to have him sit in the bow so that I can watch him and anticipate his moving around. Most dogs like to do "spin moves" before they lay down...Luca is no exception.....the Phoenix isn't quite wide enough for his spin move. He has taken us for a couple of swims.....Unfortunately, between the two of us, there isn't enough room left for much gear....

Mike

 

[Tsuga8]

Once in the canoe, the dog should remain quiet.

Yes, the dog should do a lot of things. I'm not a fan of condemning based on breed, but I do think there's something to genetics, breed, and behavior, at least generally speaking. Looks like you have a German shepherd or similar, known for trainability (and a nice looking dog!). I have a hound mix - known for following their nose above all else. I've been training him for 6 yrs, and he listens well and responds, but he needs to continually be reminded. In the woods, he will find every deer trail and start down it. I tell him no, and he immediately stops following that trail, but as soon as he finds the next, the nose wins again. In the canoe, he sits whenever I tell him, but as soon as something new is in the wind, his rear end magically levitates and his nose heads where it heads - I don't think he's even conscious of it.

I used the word rowdy, but these days that's probably only fair when a beaver or loon pops up near the canoe. He is quiet, he just can't sit still. He sits, he stands, he turns, he sits, he turns, he stands.... all pretty calm and we've gotten good at balancing together - he doesn't lean out over the rail like when he was young (fell out twice, dipped the rail and almost dumped me twice, but that was years ago). But he doesn't seem capable of sitting still until he's inside the house or car where the smells of the woods subside.

@Jatfomike , your 100-pounder in a Phoenix with you gives me hope!

 

[Tsuga8]

@Jatfomike I think I'm headed towards a Phoenix. Did you move the seat or thwart at all for trim with your pooch? Or is it trimmed pretty well with the dog in front of the thwart already?

 

[Jatfomike]

I love my Phoenix! With that said, I probably need a small tandem with that Big Dawg of mine….If he were 50 pounds, we would be good, but at 110…..he’s too big to turn around and gets nervous. I have not touched the thwarts and seat other than to raise the seat to better fit my size 13’s when kneeling.

Mike

 

[Tsuga8]

Hmm, good to know, thanks. My dog's 65lbs, but has the height/length of many labs. I wonder if the Phoenix will be too small for him....