Be careful out there - crap happens

[GearFreak]

I wish scuba dry suits were that cheap - then I would have one. I think about going out in my wet suit sometimes, when it gets this cold. But then I find something else on land to amuse myself doing. I do want to try ice diving one time - just cause.

Glad all worked out for man & pup.

 

[BWCA66]

Glad you're ok! Thanks for sharing, it's a great reminder to always be prepared

 

[Robin]

I am wondering how Robin is doing.. His town got a foot of crap snow.. Heavy stuff that can hurt you.

We ended up with 14", heavy with a wind mixed in. We lost electricity and I started telling my visiting G'sons scary stories by candlelight...they ended up sleeping with Grandma and I got stuck in a cold bed too small for me...haha.

Thanks for sharing that event Alan, we all need to be reminded of the dangers of cold water.

 

[Canotrouge]

Up here you wear a dry suit more than you don't. I think if Alan didn't have the water ballast, and a secured seat, non of that would had happened. Maybe I'm wrong...
I wear a Kokatat Gortex drysuit with feet, it is super comfy, light and really easy on and off!! It is a bit hot when air temp are high, but up here it is really rare that water temp get anywhere close to comfortable!!

 

[latremorej]

I own a drysuit, and I really doubt that I would have worn it on an outing like yours (not saying it would be a bad idea to, or that after I tipped I wouldn't be wishing I had!). Mine is a chore to get on, bulky, and I look goofy wearing it. I only use it for spring whitewater, where it is a must have (and where no one sees me paddling anyways).

I do have a set of NRS hydroskins that I sometimes wear while paddling cold flatwater. I don't think they alone would save your life, but they would give you some more time. I also have used the bottoms on cold spring trips as a sort of super long underwear.

More importantly, I really like the lines of the boat. It will be fascinating to hear a comparison between it and your bloodvein.

Quinn

And more time is exactly what you need!

Alan, I'm glad you had your "eye opener" in relative safety and made it back all in one unfrozen piece. This reminds me to put my pocket rocket back into my cold weather bag. (Paddling,hunting, fishing bag) I leave it in the car for those "what was I thinking " occasions.

The boat looks grea BTW!

Jason

 

[snapper]

Alan - So glad you and Sadie made it back in one piece. I'd been thinking about picking up a PFD for our new pup but now I think it will be an essential piece of gear for her. Looks like her first Christmas gift has been selected. Thanks for giving me the idea without having to go through your experience.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.

snapper

 

[memaquay]

I've had a few moments like that, some on extended trips. It's good to be alive! Sure beats the alternative!

 

[southcove]

And you keep 'abusing' that poor little dog?! Hope she doesn't ask for a new DAD for Christmas...

Prior to my first Yukon rafting trip, the leader had everyone jump in the water w life jacket, shorts and a safety rope...once my privates returned to their prior position, I had a new respect for the numbing power of cold moving water on street clothes...a lesson regularly reinforced on each succeeding trip on lakes, ocean or rivers. Be safe or be sorry are words to live by.

 

[Guest]

it was a nice day on the lake until my leaning tower of foam (temporary seat) fell over mid-stroke. Next thing I knew Sadie and I were both in the water. Needless to say it was a little chilly.

Spends 45 days padding the far north, falls over on local lake. Life is full of irony.

I use a milk crate and some foam as a test seat. Set upside down with split foam insulation on the open edge side of the crate so it doesn’t slide around or mar the hull, with minicel slab(s) strapped to the flat bottom-now-seat. A standard milk crate is 11 inches tall, way too high for my usual seat preferences, but some of the crate designs are easy to cut down leaving a full frame bottom.

As tricky as you are, and as many boats as you are producing, I expect you could quickly knock out a “test seat” platform superior to a milk crate. A little arch and some non-skid paddling on the bottom, straps for additional minicel height layers on top. . . . .

Even while I was still in the water I was already thinking, "I wish I had more dry clothes in that bag." I had a pair of pants and a long sleeved shirt. Before I went in the water I was comfortably warm wearing a t-shirt, 2 long sleeve thermals, fleece, and a jacket.

Definitely should have had more top layers as well as an extra stocking cap and gloves.

I have faith that you will repack the spare clothes bag differently. Warm top and bottom layers and extremities stuff; wool socks, hat, gloves. A little absorbent towel helps too, especially if you have hair turning to ice helmet. No worries there.

 

[Alan Gage]

I'd be curious to hear more about similar situations some of you have had. How did it happen, what did you do right, what did you do wrong, and what was pure luck (good or bad)?

I've gone into cold water before (40's) but nothing like this and never in conjunction with air temps hovering around freezing. Each time, despite not feeling panicked, I've had trouble controlling my breathing for 5-10 seconds. It's like it gets out of sync and all I can do is these little short, choppy, and erratic breaths. This time it actually seemed to pass quicker than the others; maybe because my head stayed dry.

My bag of dry clothes was not clipped to a thwart and I'm lucky I didn't either lose it or have to go swimming after it. When I was leaving the house the thought occurred to me it should be clipped into place but when loading the canoe it didn't even cross my mind. The first moments of the canoe tipping over were the most hectic as my mind was racing trying to figure out what I was going to do. How long can I stay in the water? Do I try and climb back in the canoe? Can I make it to shore in time? Can I paddle back to the car?

No thoughts were really clear and I'm lucky that I saw that dry bag close to me and grabbed it. I was looking around for something I might need to grab but I don't think I had a firm idea in my head of just what I was looking for. This happened within 10 seconds of going over. Had I not seen that dry bag for whatever reason it might have taken me 30 seconds to begin thinking clear enough to account for it, and certainly the wind would have blown it a ways by then.

Sadie came paddling over and I threw her into the canoe but it was completely full of water so I had to pull her back out, turn the canoe upside down and try to drain as much water as I could when flipping it back upright again. I got it a little over half empty. She came paddling back again and when I tried to put her in the canoe again she somehow got her back feet on the gunwale and her front feet on my shoulder. To her that seemed to be the best option but I disagreed. I prevailed and got her back in the canoe and started walking it to shore. I'm guessing not more than 45 seconds in the water at this point.

I think I'm lucky I wasn't able to fully empty the canoe of water. It was only 20' or so until we reached the edge of the ice and I started pushing the canoe ahead as an ice breaker. Had the canoe been empty it would not have been effective at breaking the ice and I don't know that I would have had the presence of mind to partially flood it. I could have broken the ice by hand but it would have been difficult in shoulder/neck deep water and slowed me down considerably. I had no painters on the canoe. I had rope in my car and thought about tying it on before shoving of but decided why bother for a short test paddle?

I can remember really hoping there wasn't any deeper water between me and the island and thankfully there wasn't. About half way there I realized I'd be able reach land safely and still have good muscle control. That was a bit of a relief. I was still unsure how long it was going to take to change clothes or how much colder I'd get in the process. My biggest worry was losing motor skills and struggle to put on clothes or else not be able to paddle for the return trip.

About this time it crossed my mind to look and see if all of my paddles (3) were accounted for. They were. Looking back this concerns me as I don't remember consciously looking for my paddles earlier. I can only hope that since they were floating in the canoe right in front of me that I recognized that wasn't an issue and moved on to other things without realizing it. Not having a paddle at that point would have been a very bad thing.

It probably took less than 5 minutes to reach shore and it was a good feeling. As I climbed out of the water I could feel my legs and arms were partially numb. I wondered about starting a fire to try and warm up but thought the time would be better spent paddling back to the car. Then I also realized I had no way of starting a fire anyway. It wasn't until I got back to the car that I remembered the ditch kit with matches, lighter, and fire starters in the pocket of my PFD (recent addition).

The shore we landed on was windy so I walked about 50 yards to get behind a small hill. I wanted to keep walking to the south end of the island (another 100 yards) to where the sun was shining but forced myself to stop. It was a bit of an effort to make myself undress. The shock of cold water was gone and although I was very cold and shaking my clothes didn't feel so cold anymore. I wanted to keep walking around to try and warm up. I was afraid that being wet and naked would be a lot more cold than staying in my wet clothes. It wasn't. Once I had my clothes off I felt warmer. Dry clothes, although minimal in thickness, felt better yet.

Handling all this wet clothing wasn't doing my hands any favors. I wrung out my fleece gloves and put them back on. It was a struggle as my fingers were pretty numb and couldn't feel to get them in the right holes easily. I used my teeth to pull them on. I was lucky to still be able to zip my PFD. Carried everything back to the canoe and shoved off again, probably around 10 minutes from going in the water.

I wasn't so worried now. It was a short paddle back to the car and I didn't feel like my condition was deteriorating so quickly so I stopped to pick up the bits of foam and dry bag full of water that had fallen out of the canoe. I wouldn't have chased after them but they were all stuck against the edge of ice and I had to paddle right by them anyway.

My lower hand kept slipping on the paddle shaft; I couldn't grip it tightly enough. We had to paddle into the wind for about 500 yards before getting behind a protected shoreline. This felt good. We were in the sun and out of the wind. My hands were very cold. I took my gloves off thinking it couldn't be any worse and that I'd get a better grip on the paddle. Both of these were true. My dry clothes were now pretty wet. A lot of water had drained off my PFD and I was kneeling in a wet canoe.

Reached the car probably 25 minutes after going in the water and after pulling the canoe up on shore both of us wanted nothing more than to get inside and turn on the heat. My toes were numb and it was hard to keep the engine RPM up because I couldn't feel the gas pedal. Everything but my hands warmed pretty quickly. They hurt real bad for about 10-15 minutes while thawing out. Drove home in a great mood and drank lots of hot tea.

Alan

 

[flyingbison]

Wow, scary stuff. I did a "Polar Plunge" once, and then had to walk about 15 minutes back to my vehicle, but I had dry clothing to put on immediately after coming out of the water. Even then, my hands and feet were numb for hours, and then painful for a while after that. I don't think I would have been nearly as calm and collected as you were.

 

[jcavenagh]

Wow! If just one or two things had gone more awry there would have been a lot of "But he was such an experienced paddler!" or "How could he not have known?!?"
Good to hear you got out of a jam in good shape.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Alan is right !
We probably all have a similar experience.
Here's mine. Hope it's not to boring !
​ 1979. Wife was 8 months pregnant, with our first son.
It was March, in Iowa, river ice had just broken up, and I was fed up with Cabin Fever !
​ I talked my bride into taking me and our Beagle down to a putin upstream of the Main street bridge, on the West Branch Des Moines. It runs through town.

We agreed that she would pick us up at Gotch Park, ( about 3 1/2 miles downstream.)

​ Shortly after we launched, The Beagle and I, entered the main rapids of the trip. We were in a 17 Loweline Aluminum canoe. I had done this several times previously, over the years. I was pretty confident !
Well this time I encountered a rock that flipped us over.
​ Strange, but I can remember a calmness coming over me ! To this day it still bothers me. I would have expected my brain to go into overload, but it didn't.
Of course, no lifejacket, just a seat cushion, that back in the day, was all that was required by the Iowa DNR.

​ After the canoe tipped, half full of water, I grabbed the cushion, and the canoe, thinking I could work it to shore. about that time I see a bridge piling, and the canoe was heading right for it. It was time to part company with the canoe. We, the Beagle and the canoe made it past the bridge. A strange thing, as I was working towards shore, I was in a current, that started to suck me down. Now I was getting a little nervous, but the river pulled me, and the cushion through.

​ I made it to shore, and noticed a bunch of cars stopped on the bridge. The minute they saw I had made it to shore, they all drove off, without offering assistance. I couldn't believe it !.

Now to face the music from the wife, and somehow recover the canoe. She had witnessed the whole event. That's probably the most amazing part, that it didn't set her into Labor!

​ I knew the wife would be upset, but I diverted her anger, helping me try to recover the canoe, that was going downstream on it's own. The Wife had picked up the Beagle. I really expected her to be Furious ! She held it together !

​ We drove to several spots trying to catch the canoe. I was bout to give up when a friend on his dirt bike, offered to cross a railroad trestle, and try and catch my canoe.
About a 1/4mile downstream of Gotch Park, is a lowhead dam. Amazingly my friend, as the canoe came close to the bank on his side of the river, grabbed it, and pulled it to shore ! Totally Amazing !
​ I love that guy, and told him any time he needed a canoe, to come and get mine, even without asking. I can still remember him chuckling.

​ So many things I did wrong, but lived to tell. Everytime I look at those rapids, which is about everyday, I know Someone was watching over me ! I'm not overly religious, but a Believer for sure !

​Jim

​ PS. My Bride still shuttles, and picks me up at Gotch Park. That's likely the Most Amazing thing !

 

[Muskrat]

There is nothing like the shock of cold water when you go under and it forces the breath right out of you. It sobers you up real quick. I've dumped in early spring, but luckily was making camp near there, otherwise I hope I wouldn't have been so dumb. There's another end of the spectrum that is the slow onset hypothermia. I think almost everyone in the group had it one night of four on the river. It rained the whole time and never got above 50° F. We had a big group though so there was always someone capable enough to get a big fire going and get some food cooked. No one really wanted to eat, just forced it down, and tried to dry off and sleep. That scares me more in the long run now than a quick submersion.

 

[yellowcanoe]

We have paddled as the lake froze.. it is awesome.. but its not awesome when you find your boat is slippery as oil... I suppose that is the peril of seeking warmth of a kayak.. the decks get iced over. We had a cold snap and went out at about 15 F. The lake was just freezing over and we paddled and watched the ice leaves interlock.. fascinating.

Now to get out of the boats.. Not getting any purchase at all due to iced over boats we had to do a wet exit into freezing up water on return to the launch. It worked fine...we had drysuits.

What was not so fine was securing the boats to the car as we had gone to a new to us lake... Icy fingers and the temp was dropping.

 

[Guest]

I have been lucky in that all of my winter swims have been in water waist deep or less, and usually close to shore. Maybe not just lucky; I do not use a wet suit or dry suit and deliberately try to restrict my winter paddling to shoreline hugging, shallow waters and narrow rivers class I or less.

My lack of similar situation circumstance allowed, there are lessons for all in your recent plunge, so please accept the following critique in the spirit intended.

My bag of dry clothes was not clipped to a thwart and I'm lucky I didn't either lose it or have to go swimming after it. When I was leaving the house the thought occurred to me it should be clipped into place but when loading the canoe it didn't even cross my mind.

Securing the dry clothes bag is almost as important as having a dry clothes bag. If that bag had floated away irretrievably you would have been in dire circumstances. On a solo trip clipping it to a thwart is fine, but on a trip with companions I do not want anything attached to the canoe that can impede a canoe-over rescue (or, on river trips, capsize snag a rocky bottom, hook a strainer stub)

I did a beautiful canoe over rescue of a friend’s boat after he swam. Or almost did; it was going very well until I discovered that for some mysterious reason I couldn’t slide his canoe up onto mine quite far enough to empty the water and flip his boat. I tried several times and the mystery only deepened; I could slide it almost into place and then it would budge no further. ???

He had a bailer tied to a thwart via a short length of line. Every time I got his canoe nearly up on my boat the bailer caught between his thwart and my gunwales. It was not pretty, and I dang near drifted into a strainer during the WTF struggle before I tossed him canoe back in the water and bulldozed it near shore (other companions had the swimmer).

Sadie came paddling over and I threw her into the canoe but it was completely full of water so I had to pull her back out, turn the canoe upside down and try to drain as much water as I could when flipping it back upright again. I got it a little over half empty. She came paddling back again and when I tried to put her in the canoe again she somehow got her back feet on the gunwale and her front feet on my shoulder.

Doggie PFD even on easy local trips? Sadie really should have her on account on Canoe Tripping. I am sure she has her own thoughts on that swim. “He dumped us overboard, threw me into a canoe full of water, pulled me back out and then tried to throw me back in again, despite my protestations”

I had no painters on the canoe. I had rope in my car and thought about tying it on before shoving of but decided why bother for a short test paddle?

In the pushed ahead ice breaker mode they might not have helped, but having attached painters has been a canoe saver more than once, if only for tying off a stuck canoe so things didn’t get worse while we formulated a retrieval plan.

About this time it crossed my mind to look and see if all of my paddles (3) were accounted for. They were. Looking back this concerns me as I don't remember consciously looking for my paddles earlier. I can only hope that since they were floating in the canoe right in front of me that I recognized that wasn't an issue and moved on to other things without realizing it. Not having a paddle at that point would have been a very bad thing.

I realize that this was a test paddle of a canoe build in progress, but that serves to illustrate the value of having some kind of spare paddle keeper system; a floatation foam block vee to shove the blade into a la Conk’s Curtis boats, blade-wide bungee over a thwart or pockets & shaft Velcro on a spray skirt. I am not a fan of the Velcro keepers that warp around a thwart, but they are simple and movable from boat to boat. These things or an easy DIY variant:

https://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com/piragis-canoe-gear/hands-free-portage-straps-24629

I wondered about starting a fire to try and warm up but thought the time would be better spent paddling back to the car. Then I also realized I had no way of starting a fire anyway. It wasn't until I got back to the car that I remembered the ditch kit with matches, lighter, and fire starters in the pocket of my PFD (recent addition).

I have that stuff as well, but for all of the dozens of cold weather swims, mine and companions, I have yet to need building a fire. By the time the toweling off and redressing bundle up moving around was done there was no need. Still, there are lots of circumstance where the ability to start a fire would be invaluable. If your paddles had floated away a fire would have been handy stuck on your icy island.

I was afraid that being wet and naked would be a lot more cold than staying in my wet clothes. It wasn't. Once I had my clothes off I felt warmer. Dry clothes, although minimal in thickness, felt better yet.

Yeah, wet stuff off fast and first, dry off even if that means using an outer layer from the spare clothes bag (one of those little shammie towels takes up no room). Dry clothes on ASAP.

The winter clothes bag gets packed sequentially top to bottom so I’m not digging for what I want first; towel (which I can then stand on), warm hat and gloves (and thin glove liners), long underwear, wool socks, fleece layers, vest. More wool socks to later replace the ones damp from my wet boots if needed. Old Gortex jacket as a 4[SUP]th[/SUP] layer rain cover and wind breaker (shoulder leaky but better than nothing). Garbage bag for the wet stuff.

I have enough spare clothes of that ilk to pack that dry bag in October and keep it packed until summer. And I am lazy enough that I just bring that ready packed bag as my extra full-on winter duds when tripping off-season. That spare clothes dry bag got a lot smaller when I stopped carrying the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] set of “Clown Suit Attire” to dress friends who didn’t bring spare clothes after they swam.

Handling all this wet clothing wasn't doing my hands any favors. I wrung out my fleece gloves and put them back on. It was a struggle as my fingers were pretty numb and couldn't feel to get them in the right holes easily. I used my teeth to pull them on. I was lucky to still be able to zip my PFD.

Just getting a thin pair of glove liners on helps. I had to dress an elderly friend once. Actually I had to undress him first. His fingers were useless and he was struggling to even get his wet pants off by himself. “Elderly” needs reconsideration; that was 20 years ago when I thought folks my current age elderly. Food for thought.

I had not given it much consideration, but my spare clothes are mostly pull on or pull overs, sans zippers. Thick fleece “sweatpants”, uber thick pull over fleece top with a hood and big handwarmer pocket, oversized for layering. The down vest and Goretex jacket have zippers. . . . .hmmm, I kind need a new down vest, maybe a pull over or half zip this time.

Glad you and Sadie are both OK. Kinda like most car accidents happen close to home (for obvious reasons)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...ents-happen-a-mile-from-home-survey-says.html

Some interesting stuff if that survey. I’ll park 100 yards from a store if I can find a pull through spot where I can simply drive ahead to get out. If I am forced to I’ll back into a spot on arrival since that affords a recent clear view of the cars, pedestrians and turn space all around me.

I hate backing up.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Sadie really should have her on account on Canoe Tripping

Hear Hear.. I'd like the TRs from her point of view

 

[Alan Gage]

Mikey said: "there are lessons for all in your recent plunge, so please accept the following critique in the spirit intended."

Absolutely. I've been running it over and over in my head thinking about not only what went right and wrong but would could have happened differently under other circumstances. It really was an eye opener and I'm glad it happened. I thought I had respect for cold water before but this really drives it home. A very good learning experience.

In the pushed ahead ice breaker mode they might not have helped, but having attached painters has been a canoe saver more than once, if only for tying off a stuck canoe so things didn’t get worse while we formulated a retrieval plan.

Agree that painters wouldn't have been much help in my situation but if I'd had to break through the ice by hand (rather than pushing the canoe ahead of me) a painter would have been nearly essential to keep a grip on the canoe and still use two hands for the task. Also if I would have had to take a short swim after my dry clothes bag or paddle I would have been forced to let go of the canoe and then come back to it, assuming it stayed put.

I have enough spare clothes of that ilk to pack that dry bag in October and keep it packed until summer. And I am lazy enough that I just bring that ready packed bag as my extra full-on winter duds when tripping off-season.

I like the idea of just leaving a dry bag with appropriate clothes and accessories packed and always at the ready. I could easily find enough warm clothes in my closet that I never wear otherwise. I also like the garbage bag for wet clothes. How to carry all this sopping wet clothing back to the boat without soaking myself in the process was a decision to make. I piled it all on top of the now empty dry bag and then lifted the edges of the dry bag to carry it like a sling. It was a bit precarious though. A garbage bad would also contain anything that fell out of the pockets. When carrying my wet clothes from the canoe back to the car my keys fell on the ground. First thought was, "I'm glad they didn't fall out undetected on the island" and the second thought was, "maybe my wallet fell out undetected on the island?" Thankfully it hadn't.

Alan

 

[Guest]

When carrying my wet clothes from the canoe back to the car my keys fell on the ground. First thought was, "I'm glad they didn't fall out undetected on the island" and the second thought was, "maybe my wallet fell out undetected on the island?" Thankfully it hadn't.

I try to be pretty anal about wallet and car key security. I do well with the wallet, which often goes into a small dry bag of essentials on the front seat before I leave home. The car keys are another story.

Since they are the last thing I have in hand before getting into the canoe too often they end up lackadaisically in my pocket, where I discover them an hour later. That discovery always gives me the willies, thinking I better not drop them overboard while trying to secure them. Sinking them would be bad and drowning the remote not much better.

I have mentioned this before, but I have a spare truck key (and a $20 bill) in a tiny pouch clipped inside a PFD pocket. The key has come in handy a couple of times when someone dropped my truck off at the take out and I neglected to bring a spare set of keys. The $20 bill has been used and replaced many, many times.

Similarly, on trips with a companion I give them a set of truck keys, and if we have done a two car self-shuttle I like having a set their keys to call my own.

If someone gets to the vehicle first, by chance or by need, they can open the truck, run the heater, start storing gear, etc. Same for travelling with a companion on truck road trips, I want them to have their own set of truck keys, not be trading mine back and forth leaving someone locked out at a rest area or when standing in the parking lot while replenishment shopping.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

"I like the idea of just leaving a dry bag with appropriate clothes and accessories packed and always at the ready."

That's what I do. The dry bag includes first aid kit, a few survival gadgets and a $20 bill. I toss in my wallet and car keys before I launch as a matter of habit. I've also always had a car key with a detach ring permanently on my PFD zipper. Phone always in a waterproof Dry Pak, either lashed to my PFD or put in the dry bag.