I didn't see it at max, but we had a great time visiting with friends on the back lawn of the Library
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Happy Mathematics Day! ❌📐♾️
Any plans for the April 8, 2024 solar eclipse?
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
- Start date
I have spent 6 years working on coal mine reclamation at Black Mesa on the Navajo Res. It changed my life.
I know only one Native that belongs to the Native American Church and uses peyote as a sacrament. He is the guy I buy art from at the local pow wows. Ike is from Texas.
I know only one Native that belongs to the Native American Church and uses peyote as a sacrament. He is the guy I buy art from at the local pow wows. Ike is from Texas.
Part 1:
it was never my intent to besmirch any religious faith. Just to point out some strange legends (to someone who has grown up with deep study in mathematics the physical sciences) .
Astronomy has a long history of finding the “truth” regardless of cultural or religious beliefs, some of which still stand.
Even Christianity has some odd ball practices. Both in ancient times and still today. It has been a long road of observations and reasoned thought of the natural word to describe what we think we know today as descriptions of the physical natural world. Note that what we do know is sufficient to get us all the functional satellites to orbit for our technological purposes. (GPS, communication systems, military security, weather, you name it. We have gone to the Moon and safely returned, We have sent probes to gather information about the outer planets and some have departed the solar system. None of those accomplishments has its roots I the belief that a bear, puma, dragon, turtle or demons is eating the sun during a solar eclipse. People had to observe and apply experimental though and logic to determine what is really happening. You can’t hide your head in the sand when a natural event happens if you want to understand why it happens.
With a little thought Why can’t it be the moon as the cause of an eclipse? Babylonians and the Assyrians, and Mayans were able to predict eclipses. The beginnings of the Scientific Method. You have to carefully watch an event and make observations, even without advanced mathematics in the picture, the reason may become obvious from observation. A day or two before an eclipse, a thin sliver of the moon can be seen very close to the location of the morning rising sun. Then within a day after the eclipse, a sliver of the moon is visible close to the location of the setting sun. I saw the such a moon just 26 hours after the eclipse. The moon obviously travels around the sky during the period of 30 days Where do you think the moon went between those times? Why is it unreasonable to believe that the moon (clearly a solid object) passes in front of the sun, thus blocking it out. There are also times when the moon may occult (pass in front of) a bright star. Is the star being eaten?
The prevailing astronomical model of the cosmos in Europe in the 1,400 years leading up to the 16th century was the Ptolemaic System, a geocentric model created by the Roman citizen Claudius Ptolemy in his Almagest, dating from about 150 CE. Throughout the Middle Ages it was spoken of as the authoritative text on astronomy, although its author remained a little understood figure frequently mistaken as one of the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt.[5] The Ptolemaic system drew on many previous theories that viewed Earth as a stationary center of the universe.
Since the 13th century, European scholars were well aware of problems with Ptolemaic astronomy.
The major features of Copernican theory are:
Heavenly motions are uniform, eternal, and circular or compounded of several circles (epicycles).
The center of the universe is near the Sun.
Around the Sun, in order, are Mercury, Venus, the Earth and Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and the fixed stars.
The Earth has three motions: daily rotation, annual revolution, and annual tilting of its axis.
Retrograde motion of the planets is explained by the Earth's motion, which in short was also influenced by planets and other celestial bodies around Earth.
The distance from the Earth to the Sun is small compared to the distance to the stars.
The Copernican Revolution, a paradigm shift from the Ptolemaic model of the heavens, which described the cosmos as having Earth as a stationary body at the center of the universe, to the heliocentric model with the Sun at the center of the Solar System, spanned over a century, beginning with the publication of Copernus' De revolutionibus orbium coelestium and ending with the work of Isaac Newton.
From a modern point of view, the Copernican model has a number of advantages. Copernicus gave a clear account of the cause of the seasons: that the Earth's axis is not perpendicular to the plane of its orbit.
Galileo studied speed and velocity, gravity and free fall, the principle of relativity, inertia, projectile motion and also worked in applied science and technology, describing the properties of the pendulum and "hydrostatic balances"
Galileo's championing of Copernican heliocentrism was met with opposition from within the Catholic Church and from some astronomers. The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, which concluded that heliocentrism was foolish, absurd, and heretical since it contradicted the Ptolemaic system.
Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems (1632), which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated both the Pope and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point.[9] He was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", and forced to recant. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest.
Galileo and Jupiter's moons
On 7 January 1610, Galileo observed with his telescope what he described at the time as "three fixed stars, totally invisible[a] by their smallness", all close to Jupiter, and lying on a straight line through it.[49] Observations on subsequent nights showed that the positions of these "stars" relative to Jupiter were changing in a way that would have been inexplicable if they had really been fixed stars. On 10 January, Galileo noted that one of them had disappeared, an observation which he attributed to its being hidden behind Jupiter. Within a few days, he concluded that they were orbiting Jupiter: he had discovered three of Jupiter's four largest moons
Galileo's observations of the satellites of Jupiter caused controversy in astronomy: a planet with smaller planets orbiting it did not conform to the principles of Aristotelian cosmology, which held that all heavenly bodies should circle the Earth,[53][54] and many astronomers and philosophers initially refused to believe that Galileo could have discovered such a thing
In February 1616, an Inquisitorial commission declared heliocentrism to be "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture". OOPS - heresy
In view of Galileo's rather implausible denial that he had ever held Copernican ideas after 1616 or ever intended to defend them in the Dialogue, his final interrogation, in July 1633, concluded with his being threatened with torture if he did not tell the truth, but he maintained his denial despite the threat.[143][144][145]
The sentence of the Inquisition was delivered on 22 June. It was in three essential parts:
Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy" (though he was never formally charged with heresy, relieving him of facing corporal punishment),[146] namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions.[147][148][149][150]
He was sentenced to formal imprisonment at the pleasure of the Inquisition.[151] On the following day, this was commuted to house arrest, under which he remained for the rest of his life.[152]
His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.
According to Stephen Hawking, Galileo probably bears more of the responsibility for the birth of modern science than anybody else,[237] and Albert Einstein called him the father of modern science
it was never my intent to besmirch any religious faith. Just to point out some strange legends (to someone who has grown up with deep study in mathematics the physical sciences) .
Astronomy has a long history of finding the “truth” regardless of cultural or religious beliefs, some of which still stand.
Even Christianity has some odd ball practices. Both in ancient times and still today. It has been a long road of observations and reasoned thought of the natural word to describe what we think we know today as descriptions of the physical natural world. Note that what we do know is sufficient to get us all the functional satellites to orbit for our technological purposes. (GPS, communication systems, military security, weather, you name it. We have gone to the Moon and safely returned, We have sent probes to gather information about the outer planets and some have departed the solar system. None of those accomplishments has its roots I the belief that a bear, puma, dragon, turtle or demons is eating the sun during a solar eclipse. People had to observe and apply experimental though and logic to determine what is really happening. You can’t hide your head in the sand when a natural event happens if you want to understand why it happens.
With a little thought Why can’t it be the moon as the cause of an eclipse? Babylonians and the Assyrians, and Mayans were able to predict eclipses. The beginnings of the Scientific Method. You have to carefully watch an event and make observations, even without advanced mathematics in the picture, the reason may become obvious from observation. A day or two before an eclipse, a thin sliver of the moon can be seen very close to the location of the morning rising sun. Then within a day after the eclipse, a sliver of the moon is visible close to the location of the setting sun. I saw the such a moon just 26 hours after the eclipse. The moon obviously travels around the sky during the period of 30 days Where do you think the moon went between those times? Why is it unreasonable to believe that the moon (clearly a solid object) passes in front of the sun, thus blocking it out. There are also times when the moon may occult (pass in front of) a bright star. Is the star being eaten?
The prevailing astronomical model of the cosmos in Europe in the 1,400 years leading up to the 16th century was the Ptolemaic System, a geocentric model created by the Roman citizen Claudius Ptolemy in his Almagest, dating from about 150 CE. Throughout the Middle Ages it was spoken of as the authoritative text on astronomy, although its author remained a little understood figure frequently mistaken as one of the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt.[5] The Ptolemaic system drew on many previous theories that viewed Earth as a stationary center of the universe.
Since the 13th century, European scholars were well aware of problems with Ptolemaic astronomy.
The major features of Copernican theory are:
Heavenly motions are uniform, eternal, and circular or compounded of several circles (epicycles).
The center of the universe is near the Sun.
Around the Sun, in order, are Mercury, Venus, the Earth and Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and the fixed stars.
The Earth has three motions: daily rotation, annual revolution, and annual tilting of its axis.
Retrograde motion of the planets is explained by the Earth's motion, which in short was also influenced by planets and other celestial bodies around Earth.
The distance from the Earth to the Sun is small compared to the distance to the stars.
The Copernican Revolution, a paradigm shift from the Ptolemaic model of the heavens, which described the cosmos as having Earth as a stationary body at the center of the universe, to the heliocentric model with the Sun at the center of the Solar System, spanned over a century, beginning with the publication of Copernus' De revolutionibus orbium coelestium and ending with the work of Isaac Newton.
From a modern point of view, the Copernican model has a number of advantages. Copernicus gave a clear account of the cause of the seasons: that the Earth's axis is not perpendicular to the plane of its orbit.
Galileo studied speed and velocity, gravity and free fall, the principle of relativity, inertia, projectile motion and also worked in applied science and technology, describing the properties of the pendulum and "hydrostatic balances"
Galileo's championing of Copernican heliocentrism was met with opposition from within the Catholic Church and from some astronomers. The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, which concluded that heliocentrism was foolish, absurd, and heretical since it contradicted the Ptolemaic system.
Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems (1632), which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated both the Pope and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point.[9] He was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", and forced to recant. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest.
Galileo and Jupiter's moons
On 7 January 1610, Galileo observed with his telescope what he described at the time as "three fixed stars, totally invisible[a] by their smallness", all close to Jupiter, and lying on a straight line through it.[49] Observations on subsequent nights showed that the positions of these "stars" relative to Jupiter were changing in a way that would have been inexplicable if they had really been fixed stars. On 10 January, Galileo noted that one of them had disappeared, an observation which he attributed to its being hidden behind Jupiter. Within a few days, he concluded that they were orbiting Jupiter: he had discovered three of Jupiter's four largest moons
Galileo's observations of the satellites of Jupiter caused controversy in astronomy: a planet with smaller planets orbiting it did not conform to the principles of Aristotelian cosmology, which held that all heavenly bodies should circle the Earth,[53][54] and many astronomers and philosophers initially refused to believe that Galileo could have discovered such a thing
In February 1616, an Inquisitorial commission declared heliocentrism to be "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture". OOPS - heresy
In view of Galileo's rather implausible denial that he had ever held Copernican ideas after 1616 or ever intended to defend them in the Dialogue, his final interrogation, in July 1633, concluded with his being threatened with torture if he did not tell the truth, but he maintained his denial despite the threat.[143][144][145]
The sentence of the Inquisition was delivered on 22 June. It was in three essential parts:
Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy" (though he was never formally charged with heresy, relieving him of facing corporal punishment),[146] namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions.[147][148][149][150]
He was sentenced to formal imprisonment at the pleasure of the Inquisition.[151] On the following day, this was commuted to house arrest, under which he remained for the rest of his life.[152]
His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.
Impact on modern science
Glileo showing the Doge of Venice how to use the telescope (fresco by Giuseppe Bertini, 1858)According to Stephen Hawking, Galileo probably bears more of the responsibility for the birth of modern science than anybody else,[237] and Albert Einstein called him the father of modern science
But you did, and can't even admit it and apologize.
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@yknpdlr - So many words and still nothing resembling an apology. You can give me all the science you want. You still come off as a bore as far as I'm concerned. Feel free to show some humility once in a while. It might do you some good.
Until next time...be well.
snapper
PS - I don't need Part 2 so feel free to keep it to yourself.
Until next time...be well.
snapper
PS - I don't need Part 2 so feel free to keep it to yourself.
This site continues to be one of the best around.
A little distance makes a lot of difference, but only if you care. My friend suggested we drive down to the lake (Erie) to catch the better totality view. He even offered to drive. Well, on the plus side there is a sandy beach offering an expansive view. Also/or there's a rooftop restaurant patio which might've been "epic". My friend loves their fish and chips (and a pitcher). In fact he won't shut up about it everytime that beach town is mentioned. Still, not a bad idea. On the minus side, he's on the mend from some injuries. I didn't want to take him too far from home (much less let him drive.) Instead I insisted we park ourselves on his back deck where he could regale me with his stories in comfort. (Cushions for his sore body.) Short version: wife is gone for the day so he's gonna clean the farmhhouse eavestroughs. Is it easier to sit on the roof and do this? Kicks the ladder over.
No cellphone. No way down. Nice view though. (Here's when I suggested he should've saved his eavestrough cleaning for the eclipse. He didn't find that funny.) Wonder if that cedar tree next to the house will hold a big burly 70 yr old? Turns out he's gonna need a bigger tree. He did get most of the way down before the tree let him down, so it wasn't a long way to fall. But even so, a little distance makes a lot of difference.
As good as the eclipse was to see the friendship was what mattered that day. Good food. Good wine. A real good pot of tea, and some good stories. We're both getting on; who knows how many more rooftop misadventures we have left. I'd settle for just the one. We won't be around for another total solar eclipse, but plan to hang out for many more years to come. One day at a time.
No cellphone. No way down. Nice view though. (Here's when I suggested he should've saved his eavestrough cleaning for the eclipse. He didn't find that funny.) Wonder if that cedar tree next to the house will hold a big burly 70 yr old? Turns out he's gonna need a bigger tree. He did get most of the way down before the tree let him down, so it wasn't a long way to fall. But even so, a little distance makes a lot of difference.
As good as the eclipse was to see the friendship was what mattered that day. Good food. Good wine. A real good pot of tea, and some good stories. We're both getting on; who knows how many more rooftop misadventures we have left. I'd settle for just the one. We won't be around for another total solar eclipse, but plan to hang out for many more years to come. One day at a time.
I’m lucky enough to live in the path of totality in northern Vermont and was almost agonizing over where to watch the eclipse from. There’s a sandy point on the local reservoir that would have been perfect if it wasn’t still frozen and the water level 6 feet low, exposing acres of muck between the waterline and beach. Thought of floating in Lake Champlain near the absolute center of the path, but the threats of being caught in traffic and/or out on cold, open water with our toddler didn’t sound good. Plus, totality was in the middle of naptime. Everything good is always scheduled at naptime! 
My wife, being the practical genius that she is, suggested we just watch it from our deck at home with cocktails while the baby slept. Brilliant!
I seem to remember as a kid watching a partial eclipse, and that was kinda cool, but being in the path of totality to see the real deal was flat out amazing! To see massive solar flares erupting out into space from several locations on the sun’s perimeter while tongues of pure energy radiate out in 360 degrees from the dark side of the moon… incredible!! The only flaw was that it was over so soon. Totality lasted just long enough to get a few pictures and witness my bizarre surroundings. I couldn’t believe how dark it got, looking up at the sun at a high angle, yet it appeared to be a half hour past sunset with Venus clearly visible and sunset colors along the horizon through the trees. I kinda wished we’d hiked up to the lookout near our house to see a broader horizon line, but that dang naptime!!
Here are the three in-focus shots I was able to manage with my digital slr and 400mm zoom, and one wide angle with my phone. I didn’t anticipate it getting so dark, so I left a polarizer on and it jacked up the ISO and grain, but they came out well enough for me. Until next time anyway. In the shot with the blue ring, you can see a solar flare on the right at about four o’clock.
My wife, being the practical genius that she is, suggested we just watch it from our deck at home with cocktails while the baby slept. Brilliant! I seem to remember as a kid watching a partial eclipse, and that was kinda cool, but being in the path of totality to see the real deal was flat out amazing! To see massive solar flares erupting out into space from several locations on the sun’s perimeter while tongues of pure energy radiate out in 360 degrees from the dark side of the moon… incredible!! The only flaw was that it was over so soon. Totality lasted just long enough to get a few pictures and witness my bizarre surroundings. I couldn’t believe how dark it got, looking up at the sun at a high angle, yet it appeared to be a half hour past sunset with Venus clearly visible and sunset colors along the horizon through the trees. I kinda wished we’d hiked up to the lookout near our house to see a broader horizon line, but that dang naptime!!
Here are the three in-focus shots I was able to manage with my digital slr and 400mm zoom, and one wide angle with my phone. I didn’t anticipate it getting so dark, so I left a polarizer on and it jacked up the ISO and grain, but they came out well enough for me. Until next time anyway. In the shot with the blue ring, you can see a solar flare on the right at about four o’clock.
Attachments
Nice pics Tim! I didn't look for solar flares, that would've been cool. What impressed me was the ethereal surroundings as we reached "lights out". Felt like one of those late autumn afternoons with long shadows stretching across the fields. Like a Scandi noir show? lol
Yeah, it was like “gray” light and kind of eerie.
After reading all the stories of people’s experience with the eclipse I am sorry I didn’t make an effort to experience the total eclipse. In SE Wisconsin we had about 90% which I have to say was not very impressive. Kind of like a very slightly overcast day or like one of the days last year during which we had high altitude smoke from the Canadian fires.
I see I missed some unusually spirited and a little too-personal dialogue in this thread while I was not reading here for five days, as I recovered from the eclipse drive. Well, we'll just consider that an astronomically rare event.
With one exception, Maggie's and my eclipse trip was profoundly visceral and rewarding. The drive to the Holiday Inn Resort in Lake George on Sunday was swift and uneventful. The 105 mile drive up the Northway Monday morning to our totality viewing spot in Plattsburgh was relatively traffic free and took about 1:45 minutes.
We rejected going to the official viewing venue at Plattsburgh City Beach because we expected that to be a zoo, and it was. We also rejected the Plattsburgh airport, which had opened up all its supplementary parking areas to accommodate thousands of cars. Who wants to sit in a giant parking lot for hours.
We chose to go to the Valcour Brewing Company on the shores of Lake Champlain, which is a renovation of old stone army barracks built in 1838:
www.valcourbrewingcompany.com
The brewery had parking for about 75 vehicles, a big open field, outdoor and indoor meals, a live band, and special beers brewed just for the eclipse. Enough people, many with telescopes, to make for some interesting conversation, but not really crowded at all.
Yknpdlr and others who said so were absolutely right: The difference between 99% eclipse and totality is a profoundly and emotionally huge!
At 99% the sun might not be a blinding searchlight without eclipse glasses, but it is still a blinding laser beam. You can't look at it with naked eyes. But at totality your eclipse glasses go completely dark. Take them off and you see a black circle ringed with light. With some magnification, you can see the licks of solar prominences. The temperature drops about 10° F. All the seagulls around the lake began squawking loudly. Everyone was oohing and aahing, some close to me literally trembling with visceral excitement.
The sky went not quite as dark as night and Venus was visible, and there was a glowing light all around the horizon. I don't think it was town lights, but remnants of partial eclipse sunlight from far away. I took the following picture with my phone at totality, which is NOT AT ALL what the sky or sun actually looked like. The phone makes the sky seem still blue instead of mostly dark, and the sun still all yellow instead of black, but Venus is visible.
We stayed until the sun came back to full, and departed about 20 minutes thereafter for the "1:45 minute drive" back to Lake George.
Which took 6:15!!! An average speed of 17 mph. I got off the completely congested Northway at one one of the confusing dozens of State Route 9's in New York, but that was probably a mistake because we ended up on narrow mountain roads full of all the traffic returning from the Lake Placid and Saranac Lakes areas. My lower back and legs were in severe pain for the last four hours, and there were literally no gas stations and no open rest areas on the entire route back to Lake George.
The next day, Tuesday, we had a nice drive around my old college summer stomping grounds of Lake George, ate some secret sauce hot dogs at the famous-since-1919 New Way Lunch in Glens Falls, and finally limped home . . . too tired to even read CTN for five days. Trying to catch up now.
With one exception, Maggie's and my eclipse trip was profoundly visceral and rewarding. The drive to the Holiday Inn Resort in Lake George on Sunday was swift and uneventful. The 105 mile drive up the Northway Monday morning to our totality viewing spot in Plattsburgh was relatively traffic free and took about 1:45 minutes.
We rejected going to the official viewing venue at Plattsburgh City Beach because we expected that to be a zoo, and it was. We also rejected the Plattsburgh airport, which had opened up all its supplementary parking areas to accommodate thousands of cars. Who wants to sit in a giant parking lot for hours.
We chose to go to the Valcour Brewing Company on the shores of Lake Champlain, which is a renovation of old stone army barracks built in 1838:
Valcour Brewing Company
Valcour Brewing Company Inn and Restaurant, craft beer, great food, event space and inn rooms.
www.valcourbrewingcompany.com
The brewery had parking for about 75 vehicles, a big open field, outdoor and indoor meals, a live band, and special beers brewed just for the eclipse. Enough people, many with telescopes, to make for some interesting conversation, but not really crowded at all.
Yknpdlr and others who said so were absolutely right: The difference between 99% eclipse and totality is a profoundly and emotionally huge!
At 99% the sun might not be a blinding searchlight without eclipse glasses, but it is still a blinding laser beam. You can't look at it with naked eyes. But at totality your eclipse glasses go completely dark. Take them off and you see a black circle ringed with light. With some magnification, you can see the licks of solar prominences. The temperature drops about 10° F. All the seagulls around the lake began squawking loudly. Everyone was oohing and aahing, some close to me literally trembling with visceral excitement.
The sky went not quite as dark as night and Venus was visible, and there was a glowing light all around the horizon. I don't think it was town lights, but remnants of partial eclipse sunlight from far away. I took the following picture with my phone at totality, which is NOT AT ALL what the sky or sun actually looked like. The phone makes the sky seem still blue instead of mostly dark, and the sun still all yellow instead of black, but Venus is visible.
We stayed until the sun came back to full, and departed about 20 minutes thereafter for the "1:45 minute drive" back to Lake George.
Which took 6:15!!! An average speed of 17 mph. I got off the completely congested Northway at one one of the confusing dozens of State Route 9's in New York, but that was probably a mistake because we ended up on narrow mountain roads full of all the traffic returning from the Lake Placid and Saranac Lakes areas. My lower back and legs were in severe pain for the last four hours, and there were literally no gas stations and no open rest areas on the entire route back to Lake George.
The next day, Tuesday, we had a nice drive around my old college summer stomping grounds of Lake George, ate some secret sauce hot dogs at the famous-since-1919 New Way Lunch in Glens Falls, and finally limped home . . . too tired to even read CTN for five days. Trying to catch up now.
