Another Marathon Boat

[Clint]

@Alan Gage @TexasRiverRacer23 Thank you for the thoughts. Stability, Comfort, Rudder. Things to consider.

The AGX does have the "bubble" behind the paddle station and above the water the water line. That is where @Alan Gage you are talking about the secondary stability comes into play. And that Bumfortable kayak seat looks comfortable!

 

[Alan Gage]

The AGX does have the "bubble" behind the paddle station and above the water the water line. That is where @Alan Gage you are talking about the secondary stability comes into play.

Yes. That was the plan and it seems to have worked ok in real life. If you look at a USCA C1 they have what are typically referred to as wings in those locations. The hull bulges out at the water line to meet the minumum width specs and add some stability. But in order to make a more comfortable paddle stroke the hull really tucks back in on top of those to get out of your way. So you can imagine, with the maximum width being right at water line, primary stability doesn't feel all that bad. But as you start to lean the boat the tip of a wing goes underwater and there is less hull above the wing tip than below so the stability falls off very sharply and without warning (at least that was my experience).

Pic of a USCA C1 showing the wings.



The AGX acts more like a typical canoe hull where the maximum width is above the water line and bulges so that the water encounters more surface area as the hull is tilted, which gives a more predictable secondary stability. The paddle strokes are more of a reach than a USCA C1 because I made the boat to have more stability (more width above water line) and to carry a dog/stuff (more width between gunwales) but it's still a considerably easier reach than any sort of tripping canoe I've paddled. You can also see from the pics of my AGX how the gunwales tuck in in front of the paddler before flaring out again to make the reach easier. None of these were my original ideas but I think they achieved the goal of not giving up much in terms of speed but gaining quite a bit in terms of paddler comfort and stability.

20141117_003 by Alan, on Flickr

20141117_006 by Alan, on Flickr

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

Some of the Texas boats take that hull bulge to extremes and I'm sure have more stability.



Alan

 

[Clint]

I like it Alan. I think as long as I can reach out a paddle it should work good. The Spencer and Landick is what I am leaning towards and look like the AGX is a a happy medium in there somewhere. I think muddyfeet exaggerated the bubble a little more maybe towards the Landick style in the Dragonfly. Being since this is the first boat that I have built and will only be the 3rd of 4th solo boat I have paddled I am happy to build it and experience what it is. Even if it is just a training boat. Kind of what you mentioned in the original build thread. Going from screen to real life boat and seeing what those numbers are. I am getting to paddle more and more boats now and starting to get a feel for how different things affect what. I know from what Jeff and other have told me and my experience in boats comfort will make or break a boat. No matter how fast it is.

 

[Alan Gage]

Paddling lots of boats is great. What I found out was how important the paddler was and how there really wasn't a lot of difference between similarly spec'd hulls in the hands of an average paddler.

One time I was at USCA nationals looking to buy a used C1 and everyone told me to buy a carbon hull, not kevlar, because they were stiffer and faster. So I didn't look real hard at the repaired kevlar J-193 that was being sold by Wenonah and instead found a carbon Crozier J-193 for a little more money that was in a little poorer condition.

Later that day the guy that was selling the Wenonah took that kevlar J-193 down and took 1st place in the sprints, beating a lot of carbon hulls. I'm sure he would have been slightly faster in a carbon hull that hadn't had major repairs done to it but the fact that the other paddlers were in those hulls couldn't make up for the fact that he was a better paddler.

Alan

 

[Clint]

I'm sure he would have been slightly faster in a carbon hull that hadn't had major repairs done to it but the fact that the other paddlers were in those hulls couldn't make up for the fact that he was a better paddler.

Alan

Completely understand that. I am trying to get the correct tools to work with to build the correct skill sets. I know the solo boats that I have been paddling I do not fit correctly. And right now the only solo that I have is the Wenonah Whisper which is a great boat but I am about 20lbs to heavy for. I can push it about 5-5.25mph for hours and it is a great training boat. Been talking and working with a couple of people on paddle strokes. I still do not have a good paddle base and when I get tired it goes to crap.

Thanks everyone for the discussion.

 

[Clint]

My grandfather lives by himself now. Grandma has alzheimer's and needed to live in a care facility. They pretty much raised me and grandpa is the one that taught me wood working and pretty much how you could do whatever you wanted to. He has build all sorts of things in his life. From houses all the way to custom furniture for Texas Instruments. He needed a distraction and something to keep him busy and wanted me to come hang out. I was telling him about the new project of building a canoe and he said “ well I’ve never built on of those”. So loaded everything up took it to his house. He is so excited to have a new project going on. We made some progress yesterday.

 

[Mike McCrea]

Clint, what a fantastic opportunity.

I built a lot of stuff with my father, in his shop, which was far better equipped than mine. And he was far more skilled carpenter than I. Together we built much of the furniture in my home.

Same goes for working with my Uncles, Harwood (cabinetmaker) and David (patternmaker).

Dad is gone, Harwood and David can’t do much work these days. Glad I took those opportunities when I had the chance.

Like my father and uncles Grandpa has a very nice shop.

 

[Clint]

The last couple months grandad and I ripped all the cedar for the canoe. We also ripped some oak for the first strip to serve as the gunnels. Today we was able to get the first two strips down on the forms.

Started out with roughly a 3/4”x1/4” oak strip. Drilled pilot holes then used some finish nails. Then used a shoulder plane set the new angle on the edge to except the next strip.

 

[Clint]

Not much to report on the AGX right. Just adding strips every week. I will say that it has given my grandpa something to do every day. He loves getting up during the week and going down to the shop and running a couple of strips a day on the canoe. Then on Saturday morning I come over and we light the kerosene heater and get the shop toasty warm. Run a couple strips, drink some coffee, run a couple more strips then have lunch.

I will say that the strips we are using are 1/4" x 5/8" and are conforming to the "bubble" very well. Hope fully this weekend we will close up the whisky strip and start pulling staples. I have ordered the fiberglass and epoxy. So the sanding and filling of gaps and holes will start soon.

 

[TexasRiverRacer23]

Looking good. You plan on racing it in the Safari this year?

 

[Woodpuppy]

How will you close up the open end there?

 

[Clint]

Looking good. You plan on racing it in the Safari this year?

Thank you. Not this year. We are running a 3 man boat this year. I hope to make another thread here soon to show the rebuild of it. It needs some work and then of course the rigging.

How will you close up the open end there?

It will be a solid block glued up and then hollowed and shaped to fit. Following Alan on his build. Stole one of his pictures below.

 

[Clint]

An update on this boat. We do have the bottom closed up. All the staples pulled and started sanding the bottom. Epoxy and fiberglass is here along with new a sander. The base fell off the other one on the Minn3 project.

 

[Clint]

The last 2 weekends grandpa and I have been able to get a little done in the AGX. Was able to fill all the gaps with mixed epoxy and sanding dust. Then gave it one last sand down before adding one full layer of 4oz, then a layer over the football and up the side near the paddle station and extending to bow about 8” wide.



We let that set for a week and did the flip yesterday. As it sets now. With nothing on the inside it weighs 27.2 lbs. I was trying to compare it to Alan’s at 19.9lbs at this stage but he used thinner strips and I noticed somehow I ended up at 19’2” long. So I have a little more material than what Alan does in his boat. Hope I can keep it under that 40lb mark. But we will see.

 

[Jim Dodd]

The 4 oz cloth will help . Just one layer on the inside should be plenty, with the thicker strips you used.
Looks great !
What kind of wood did you use for the Sabot ?
Al Gustafson, of NorthWest Canoes, was the first I saw of using the Sabot.
It allowed him to make a very fine entry line.

Jim

 

[Clint]

The 4 oz cloth will help . Just one layer on the inside should be plenty, with the thicker strips you used.
Looks great !
What kind of wood did you use for the Sabot ?
Al Gustafson, of NorthWest Canoes, was the first I saw of using the Sabot.
It allowed him to make a very fine entry line.

Jim

Yes sir the 4oz was the plan to try and keep it light.
Thank you.
Used Western Red Cedar 2x6 cut down to size. Then hollowed out.

When Alan finished his out he added roughly 10lbs. So that will be the goal.

 

[Alan Gage]

That's looking great! Interesting that it ended up being 8" longer than planned. I just measured mine now because I I don't think I ever did actually measure it and it's 18' 9". Maybe the difference was in how the stem forms were tapered along the edge before adding the strips? Either way I doubt it's going to make much difference.

As I recall I originally intended to use 3/16" strips but after cutting them out realized they were closer to 1/8" than 3/16". That probably accounts for most of the weight differences.

Looking forward to seeing this one get trimmed out and on the water. I was just going to ask if you thought you'd have it done before winter and then I remembered you're in Texas so, yeah, I guess that won't be an issue.

Alan

 

[Clint]

That's looking great! Interesting that it ended up being 8" longer than planned. I just measured mine now because I I don't think I ever did actually measure it and it's 18' 9". Maybe the difference was in how the stem forms were tapered along the edge before adding the strips? Either way I doubt it's going to make much difference.

Looking forward to seeing this one get trimmed out and on the water. I was just going to ask if you thought you'd have it done before winter and then I remembered you're in Texas so, yeah, I guess that won't be an issue.

Alan

I just knocked the edge off of the stem forms and did not really shape them to much. When I installed the first strips I just let them run out and let them set the length where they wanted to naturally fall. Then just tried to keep a square bow and stern or a little rake back to the bottom.

Yep we pretty much paddle year round. I start a 100 mile challenge between Thanksgiving and Christmas and hope the be doing it in this boat this year. And hope to be finishing up my goal of paddling 1,000 miles this year.