1928 Old Town "HW" 16'

[dogbrain]

A few weeks ago I convinced my wife that I needed to build another strip canoe this winter since I didn't want everything I learned on my first canoe build to go to waste. Since I'm always checking craigslist for canoe related stuff, I came across this canoe. The wording of the ad said that the fellow was interested in getting this boat to someone who would restore it, since he had owned it since the early 1960's. It had a low price, and didn't look too bad from the pictures, but before I went and looked at it, I was able to find the build record for this boat, a 1928 Old Town HW model, 16 feet. The boat came from a campfire girls camp near Arden, NY. A quick search online and I found old postcards and photos of this very model of canoe on the lake there in the early 1930's. OK, now I'm really interested.

I drove over through Bozeman and met the fellow at his home and took a good look at the boat. As you'll see from the photos it needs lots of work. I think the fiberglass will come off easy enough, it already sounds like it's mostly separated from the wood. The inside is painted with latex, which will mostly come off with a fingernail. It has lots of broken or cracked ribs, perhaps 16, perhaps more? One inwale is in need of replacement (for some reason the other one is solid as a rock), as well as some amount of planking along the bottom of the boat. The rear seat is partially original as are the thwarts. The front seat is garbage. The decks have some rot near the tips and may be salvageable. I'm sure there's rot up under the stem tips, but looking under the decks it may not be excessive. The canoe is still pretty straight, which the fiberglass is surely responsible for. This boat probably would have gone to the dump long ago if it hadn't been glassed.

I paid the man the couple hundred dollars he was asking. At this point he said that if I actually do a restoration he'll give me the money back. I accepted his offer and added that we would go for a paddle in the canoe when I am done.

Here are some photos of its current condition. At least I can take it out for a paddle before I start to rip into it later this fall.




I really like the shape of the stems on this canoe.








This canoe was fiberglassed in the mid 1960's, and the fellow said the resin was setting as he was putting it on the boat. Hopefully that means an easier time for me getting it off. I think the glass and resin added a good 20 pounds to the boat.




The inwale and outwale on one side are shot. The canoe must have always been sitting on the ground on this side. The wood on the other side is in good shape. I'll try to find some spruce to replace the inwale.




The decks are in OK shape with a little rot near the tips. Hopefully I'll be able to save them. I'm not sure what those bolts were for.



Quite a number of broken or cracked ribs. A couple of the ribs have had these chunks replaced. The planking looks pretty bad on the bottom.





Original Build Record from Old Town. I think there's a lot more to find out about the history of this canoe from this document.



This is a 1931 photo of the camp where this canoe was delivered in 1928. All of these boats appear to be the same HW model as mine. My canoe may be in this photo.



This is the canoe in 1963. It still had canvas on it in this photo. The fiberglass was put on a few years later. When I picked up the boat, the fellow showed me the paddle he is holding in the stern.

Well, I seem to have quite a job ahead of me with this one. After finding all this history on the boat, and taking into account it turned 88 years old last weekend, I feel the duty to try and bring it back to life. I assume I'll be into it for a little less than a strip canoe since I'm actually starting with a canoe? right? Probably not. I have Mike Elliots "This Old Canoe" on order, so I'll have some reading to do this summer before I start anything. It will be interesting to find out where to start after I get the fiberglass off. I'm making a trip to Seattle in late October and I'll be looking for some Sitka Spruce for gunwales.

Mark

 

[Fitz]

Dogbrain: I just took fiberglass and poly resin off a canoe. I found a heat gun to be a great tool for the job. Also gentle use of a hacksaw blade helped to remove the resin between planks. Thurlow and Stelmok's book is a great resource too. That looks like a decent project boat. Good Luck with your project.

 

[Robin]

I have removed fiberglass from 2 canoes, I was lucky, both came off easy.That's alot of ribs, but the canoe looks good and will be worth the effort imo. Mike Elliot's book will be a real help, I have it and it's very good, as is the book Fitz mentioned.
Take pictures and lets us know how things go. I'm curious about the fiberglass. I found that the plank on one of the canoes I pulled the fg off of had become brittle and alot had to be replaced on the bottom.
Have Fun!

 

[Mihun09]

I've done two glassed boats, neither of which I had to actually remove the glass from thankfully, but I would still avoid a glassed boat unless it had some significant history, like the Morris does. The biggest issue I had was with Red's Tremblay, the gunk left between the planks and it was a lot. I slit down the sides of the resin with a utility knife and peeled out the resin as best as I could. I had to replace about 1/3 of the planking due to cupping from water saturation. Any areas where the resin bonded well with the planking will likely need to be replaced considering that the resin won't sand down as fast as the cedar will so you get high spots under the canvas.

The WCHA forum is a great resource for any canoe project. Now that you have one, when done, you will get another, and another... it is an addiction for sure.

Karin

 

[dogbrain]

Thanks for all the comments. Just a poll of you who do wood/canvas restorations, Do you mill your own ribs and planking or do you buy from somebody? Also, are the ribs and planks you use quartersawn or flat grain? If flat grain, do you bust many ribs during bending? Even though I won't start on this project until the fall, I have plenty of questions and there's a lot of time to think about it until then. Mark

 

[Robin]

Regarding cedar planking and ribs, I have done both, buy the finished planks and ribs, or make my own.

I bought some cedar in Maine, quarter sawn, full 1x4 by 6', about 40 pieces. I found a guy who would saw them for me for the plank, which worked out well. I have alot of plank for future projects.I make my own ribs with my small old table saw out of the 1x4. I only cut the ribs as I need them, as rib measurement varies alot from canoe to canoe.

When I restore a canoe at the local canoe shop, (Schuyler Thomson) I make my own material from rough sawn. He has a big band saw and included in the fee for using his shop and expertise is the use of his tools and machines. Big savings,

I also bought plained 3/4" by 8" by 12' ash and make my own rails with a 8" splice.

This really saves alot for future projects, of which there will be in your case, haha, it is addicting!

I agree with Mihun, WCHA (wcha.org) is an excellent source of information, they even have a very active n/w US/Canada Chapter that has some very neat events.

 

[Mihun09]

The white cedar for ribs and planking may be difficult for you to get in Montana, such as it is for us in Manitoba. We got ours through a builder friend, Doug Ingram, when he went on a foray for himself, which requires driving east into Ontario to a supplier. We cut and mill our own ribs, although did get a few from Doug previously but now try to be as independent as possible. Planking is the more difficult to cut but the thickness planer is the favourite tool in our shop.

With a limited supply of white cedar, we get the grain we get when cutting, not many options and we have never broken a rib when bending. We soak and steam.

I believe the most we have spent restoring a canoe, including the original cost of the hull ($200), was about $900. We now buy our canvas in 150 foot rolls to help cut costs.

 

[Fitz]

I am not sure where you are located (oh, I just saw the post above), but hopefully you can find Northern White Cedar for rib stock. I try and find pieces where the grain comes close to what is in the canoe. You won't know until you strip that gawdawful paint out. Flat sawn makes for good ribs. I normally look for Western Red Cedar decking to make planking stock from. Most Old Town canoes used Western red cedar for planking. Quartersawn is best for planking.

 

[dogbrain]

Great Info, and thanks again. We have western red cedar readily available here in Montana and it's reasonably priced. I built my cedar strip canoe with boards I pulled off the rack from Lowes and Home Depot, but those are mostly flat sawn with end grain. Western Montana, northern Idaho and southern BC are WRC country, so this will give me an excuse to make a trip out that way and visit some small sawmills. That's true Fitz, I am prettty sure that the code on the build ticket for this canoe indicates they used western red cedar. I can order anything I want from a local supplier, but it can get pricey depending on what you're asking for. I'll be making a trip to Seattle in the late fall and can do a bit of lumber shopping while there too. I have a couple woodworker friends here that can resaw anything I bring them.

 

[Boatman53]

I just looked at the build ticket and see a 'WC' for planking which I interpret to be White Cedar. Doesn't say what was used for the ribs. I have a bunch of Atlantic White Cedar that would work for ribs if you are interested. Don't think I would want to ship planking stock.
Jim

 

[Fitz]

WC on the build record is normally "western cedar". Old Town had trouble finding long lengths of clear northern white cedar for planking, so they shipped in western red cedar for planking. Some of the first old towns did use northern white cedar for planking, and occasionally you come across a build record that indicates "Maine cedar", but by in large old towns are planked in red. Dogbrain will be able to tell when he strips it, but dollars to donuts, I would say western red. The western red was available in long clear lengths, and I am guessing Old Town liked the contrast between the northern white cedar ribs and western red cedar planking. I know I do.

 

[dogbrain]

Thanks Boatman. I'll strip a couple of the "good" ribs and see what I can see. Is there a quick way to identify the difference between white and western red cedar? Fitz, thanks for the specifications. Did that come out of an old town catalog? What year? The ribs on my canoe are 2 1/4" wide instead of the 2" listed on the sheet. The planking is 3 3/4" wide.

 

[dogbrain]

An update on my project.

I was able to pick up some white cedar from a couple places while on a couple solo canoe trips in August and September. I spent 2 weeks in the BWCA and a little over 2 weeks in the Quetico with the Kite canoe I built in the spring. I stopped at Fletcher Canoes before my Quetico trip and talked to Thelma, the owner, about getting some clear white cedar. If you're in the area and want to see a real canoe building shop check them out. After my trip I stopped by and picked up the wood, only to realize later that I didn't get enough after I had come back across the border. More than two weeks canoeing by myself with nothing else to think about to make sure I get enough wood and I screwed it up.

Not long after crossing the border at international falls, a little sore at myself about the screw up, I glanced over while going down the highway and saw a little bandsaw mill sitting in an open lot with lots of logging equipment. I turned around and right away saw a stack of nice cedar logs. Nobody was around, so I drove down the road and got a phone number. Ten minutes later I was loading some dry, freshly cut, clear white cedar slabs on my car. A lucky break. Now I have more than enough!







The rest of the cedar is stashed inside the canoe. Lots of clear cedar in that pile to the left of the car.

The spruce gunwales on one side of the boat are in fine shape and they're shot on the other side. To me, it looks like the bad inwale had been replaced at some point in the distant past with an inferior wood (looks like fir), inferior milling, inferior bending and somehow they even managed to mis-align the bolt holes for seats and thwarts. Anyway, it and the outwale, which is spruce like the other side, also needs to be replaced. I'm trying to source some local Engelmann Spruce if possible, but may have to get Sitka when I go to Seattle at the end of the month. After doing some research online, it seems like white spruce, engelmann and sitka are all very similar.

I've got plenty of western Red cedar for planking now, so for now I'll continue stripping paint and fiberglass.

Mark

 

[dogbrain]

I finally made some progress on this old town canoe in the last couple weeks. I got that nasty blue fiberglass off last fall. It took a good 10 hours with a heat gun. Not the worst thing I've ever done. Getting the paint and varnish off this 90 year old canoe was a different story. I used up every bit of 3 full days and 2 gallons of the nastiest stripper to get down to clean wood. I thought I was home free last fall when I got the glass off, but removing the paint was much worse. It took 2 passes just to get the paint off, then 3 more passes to remove the varnish. The varnish under the paint was almost black. Who knows how many coats went on during its life.

Here it is as it sits this evening. The ribs and planking that still have paint on them are coming out, so no need to spend more time stripping them.



I've already started on stem repairs and repairing rib tops. This canoe will need a total of 28 rib tips replaced, in addition to 13 ribs and possibly 4 more if I decide not to do backside repair. Almost all the rib tops need to be replaced on the side where the inwale also needs replacement. The canoe must have sat on that side on the ground for a while during its life.




Question for you guys: I have a number of rib tops that look like this below. Just a couple cracks running up from where the rib is nailed into the inwale. The rib tops are solid. Any suggestions on how to stabilize these? A little thinned out epoxy and a clamp?

Mark

 

[Iskweo]

Yes we have done that with cracked tips like that one. Lots of times I just replace them though. My Langford was all punky at the tips so we did every single one. Fun wow.
If that is on the side you need to do the inner gunwale then you will have to pull those nails too...you may bugger a couple of tips in the process...dont be shy about replacing them. I often find the rail is rotted/pitted behind the rib tip after removing it. We fill that with epoxy also...you will never see it.

This is a great project and I love seeing these old warriors being brought back to life. Bravo.

Christine

 

[dogbrain]

Thanks Christy - Yes, the inwale that needs replaced is the other side where almost all the rib tips are too far gone. If you include the new ribs, then roughly 75% of the rib tips will be new on that side. The good inwale side only has a couple rib tops up near the stems that need replaced. At first I regretted taking this boat on as a project, but now that I'm this far into it I'm glad I did. This is a good project that has me learning all kinds of new things, which I enjoy. A little added motivation comes from the bit of history following it along.

Mark

 

[dogbrain]

The white cedar ribs are all milled and spruce inwale stock is ready to be scarfed together. I'm surprised how close the sitka spruce is to the original spruce inwale, it will work better than I thought. Unfortunately I have to rebuild my scarfing jig to accept the wider stock. Oh well, making progress nonetheless. One practice rib bent very nicely. I really like that part.

Mark

 

[Robin]

Looks good, that stripping must have been a job, paint on top of varnish. When you get the new inwale in the canoe will look a whole lot better. Nice job.

 

[Odyssey]

I'm really enjoying this restoration, thanks for the updates. The provenance and photos had me hooked from the get go.

 

[dogbrain]

Thanks you guys. Hey Robin, you've done a bit of work on old towns, do you usually bend ribs one rib over from the target? I bent my first rib approximately 1.5 ribs over and it's a bit too narrow. This was a rib near one of the stems. Does that distance change as you move towards the center?

I've done 21 rib tips now and scarfed and shaped the spruce gunwale. I think I'll end up with more than 28 rib tips since they're so easy to do. I've got a short piece of the spruce soaking to see how well spruce bends compared to ash, also I want to make sure my form is shaped correctly.

Mark