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New Issue with my Swift portage yoke

Black_Fly

Black_Fly

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I hauled my canoe to Wisconsin with the portage yoke attached, bolted into the threaded insets on the gunwales. Short story is the yoke was loose the insets are loose in the carbon aramid gunwales. Now I need to remove the loose inset anchors and reset them better. Anyone done this? Pic is from building the yoke.
IMG_2169.jpeg
Thanks for any insight. I don’t see any way to get these anchors out destroying the holes. I was thinking of a deep hole saw and lots of Gflex, but not sue what these doofungies are like on the other end.

I suppose the road bumps did this. I always carried my canoes with detachable yokes in place. This is a poor design.

Will also call swift.

TonyIMG_5874.jpeg
 
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Sorry to hear about your loose inserts, but thanks for posting the info. Somewhere on the Swift website, maybe in one of the videos, it says to always remove the detachable yoke before driving with the canoe on the car. Maybe they included that instruction after others experienced what you did. When I saw their comment about removing the yoke I thought it was just that the bolts might work loose on the road - didn't realize that the inserts themselves would loosen.
 
I am glad my Kee 14 came without the inserts, as they always seemed to catch my thumb mid-stroke when I had them on my Cruiser. When you look at the cross section of the Swift gunnels, it all seems so delicate; I really hope I never experience a solid impact. I don't know what the repair procedure would be for a crack, but I don't know how it could ever be the same.
Swift Gunnel Cross Section 2.jpg
 
kahel said:
That's so ridiculous.
You buy a canoe for a whole bag of money and then you have to fiddle around with it to make it work!
Unbelievable!
Click to expand...
Both Swift and Placid Boatworks have odd-shaped composite gunnels that make yoke clamps a challenge. The inserts were supposed to offer an alternative to the fabric yokes, but neither ever appealed to me. Northstar's E6 gunnels have a shape that allows for conventional clamps, but that would not be enough to convince me to buy another one. I heard a rumor that Wenonah may be working on something.
 
I have a similar construction gunwale on the carbon copy Kite that I built.
After a couple years of awkward carry thwarts attachment with h over the hull straps, I ultimately modified my gunwales.
I think I posted about the mods here, but don’t have time at the moment to dig up the post.
I basically added some inboard “lumps” to accept a couple of epoxied in threaded inserts. Inserts were flanged on the bottom side, to put the flame in compression when the screw was tightened.

But I’m in full agreement, that your boat should not have been built that way, just sloppy work on an otherwise quality product.
 
stripperguy said:
But I’m in full agreement, that your boat should not have been built that way, just sloppy work on an otherwise quality product.
Click to expand...
Well, in Swift's defense, no one has ever had an issue with the inserts if guidelines were followed (or at least no one has ever posted about it). 'Sloppy work' seems a bit harsh. I recall one issue when the boat was dropped and struck the insert, forcing it down into the gunnel; another when the yoke was overtightened and this one where the boat was transported with the yoke installed with loose screws. Knowing Swift, they are probably already looking at a redesign regardless. I have also seen several posts from folks who damaged their ultra-light composite Swifts on roller launches because they weren't warned about the danger.
 
My Prospector was built before Swift came up with inserts. Just a clamp. They added what I best describe as a high quality textured tape to the gunwales. Works just ok. Talked to Bill at Canoecopia and he said if I brought it to the factory (6 hours and was thinking of combining with an Alguonquin trip) they could retrofit inserts. Now thinking not a great idea.
 
Uhhmmm yeah…
I stand by my assessment.
I am a design engineer that spent my career in R&D, mostly in advanced technologies for defense and aerospace.
There are established design criteria, specifically for adhesive based joints.
No need to say more.
 
Yes, I am sure you are correct. If Swift would manufacture under the same standards as NASA or MILSPEC this threaded insert would not have failed under any circumstance, foreseen or unforeseen. But geez, I can no longer afford a new Swift now!
 
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Somewhere I have a book detailing how threaded bolts can be drilled and tapped into an epoxy-casting to create an amazingly tenacious connection. I just scanned that particular bookshelf and couldn't put my fingers on it. Instead, here's an article from practical sailor on how to repair fasteners in a balsa-cored sailboat deck. Probably not so dissimilar to what I presume is a foam core inside your gunwale.
www.practical-sailor.com

A Stronger Screwhole Repair - Practical Sailor

Since 1974, Practical Sailor’s independent testing has taken the guesswork out of boat and gear buying.
www.practical-sailor.com www.practical-sailor.com

In that particular test case, the fasteners were cast directly into the unset epoxy, but there's no reason why you couldn't follow a similar process and then drill/tap the new epoxy casting to accept a threaded insert, which would then serve as the permanent receiver for your bolts.

If @M Clemens' info is correct, getting the existing anchor out will be a doozy though. I might set up a jig to guide a hole saw, or bung-cutter, that is larger than the likely diameter of the anchor's squashed wings to drill it out, but that would be a nerve-racking extraction! If you dye the epoxy casting black to match your gunwales, then a dark circle around your new inserts, flush with the rest of the gunwale, might not look too bad.
M Clemens said:
I remembered seeing this come up once before:View attachment 146121
Click to expand...
 
Pseudonym said:
Somewhere I have a book detailing how threaded bolts can be drilled and tapped into an epoxy-casting to create an amazingly tenacious connection. I just scanned that particular bookshelf and couldn't put my fingers on it. Instead, here's an article from practical sailor on how to repair fasteners in a balsa-cored sailboat deck. Probably not so dissimilar to what I presume is a foam core inside your gunwale.
www.practical-sailor.com

A Stronger Screwhole Repair - Practical Sailor

Since 1974, Practical Sailor’s independent testing has taken the guesswork out of boat and gear buying.
www.practical-sailor.com www.practical-sailor.com

In that particular test case, the fasteners were cast directly into the unset epoxy, but there's no reason why you couldn't follow a similar process and then drill/tap the new epoxy casting to accept a threaded insert, which would then serve as the permanent receiver for your bolts.
Click to expand...
The problem is that the epoxy casting would still be surrounded by the foam core of the gunnel and dependent on that bond for strength. I think if this happened to me, I would push the insert down below the surface of the gunnel, cover it with a small patch and forget about it, as I'm not sure I could ever trust it again. There are other portage options, such as the old-school Bell cantilevered yoke. I am working on something for my Kee 14 that might work out, as well.
Bell Yoke.jpg
 
If it was mine I'd be temped to pour it full of epoxy and then thread a bolt into the threads that was really well waxed or wrapped with teflon tape.

After the resin cures the bolt will hopefully thread out and things would hopefully be solid again.

Alan
 
M Clemens said:
The problem is that the epoxy casting would still be surrounded by the foam core of the gunnel and dependent on that bond for strength.
Click to expand...
If you didn't undercut the skin, then yes, but in the article they detail the procedure as follows:

How We Tested​

We drilled 7/16-inch holes through the top skin and core only. We then inserted a modified roofing nail cutter that removed the core and additional 5/32-inch of core from under the skin [beyond the radius of the repair hole drilled through the skin].​

Doing it that way would create a void behind the carbon aramid layer, retaining it there, and further allowing it to adhere to the back side of that fabric too.

@Alan Gage's solution would be simpler and worth a first-ditch effort.
 
There’s always old school two paddles yoke…adds no weight or extra items to carry…. but I have to say I would be pretty upset after paying Swift Canoe prices to run into a problem that quickly. However, if they do say not to transport it engaged, I guess that sort of lets them off the hook.
 
i got this boat 2nd hand. Still learning. It definitely has idiosyncrasies. Had to get Swift to issue a new hull number so I could register it in OH. Dumb requirement to register hand powered craft. Anyways, Swift’s old numbering system won’t comply with many state standards. No i gotta remove the old glue on plate😫😫.

I wanted to replace the seat but that’s not easy either. Definitely down sides to purchasing this make. Love the boat’s handling and stability, though.
 
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