Ontario Crown Land non-resident camping permits

jdeerfoot said:

the American paid the citation himself the next year since he was told failure to pay it would keep him from entering Canada again.

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Sounds like smoke to me. I have a hard time believing that an American citizen would be denied admission to all of Canada under Canadian immigration laws solely because he failed to pay a fine for not getting a $9 permit under one province's camping regulations. A parking violation would sound more serious to me. Nevertheless, it's wise to pay most fines if you are guilty.

It was the only the quick reaction of one of the paddlers which kept him from having to explain how he lost a Beaver aircraft door when he returned to base.

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...and he still issued the cite? That's pretty hard-core. (probably fresh outta the academy)

A parking violation would sound more serious to me.

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that reminds me: I think I've got an unpaid toll from Illinois outstanding from my BWCA trip in 2021. I never got a bill though... maybe I'll just avoid Illinois to be safe.

Glenn MacGrady said:

Sounds like smoke to me. I have a hard time believing that an American citizen would be denied admission to all of Canada under Canadian immigration laws solely because he failed to pay a fine for not getting a $9 permit under one province's camping regulations. A parking violation would sound more serious to me. Nevertheless, it's wise to pay most fines if you are guilty.

Inadmissibility

www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca

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This was what the guy was told when called by an NMR employee about the overdue fine. He told me he paid because he didn’t want to chance being denied entry. As I recall, he paid something like $160-170.00 to settle the citation. I asked why he didn’t get in contact with Uncle Phil who told him he would get the citation voided and then never acted on it. But this happened at a time when Phil was in decline and spent much of his time sleeping.

Glenn MacGrady said:

Sounds like smoke to me. I have a hard time believing that an American citizen would be denied admission to all of Canada under Canadian immigration laws solely because he failed to pay a fine for not getting a $9 permit under one province's camping regulations. A parking violation would sound more serious to me. Nevertheless, it's wise to pay most fines if you are guilty.

Inadmissibility

www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca

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jdeerfoot said:

This was what the guy was told when called by an NMR employee about the overdue fine.

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Oh, I have no doubt the NMR employee may have said that. The smoke I was referring to was being blown by that employee, not by your paddling friend. The NMR employee may have actually believed that to be Canadian immigration law, which I strongly doubt based on the Canadian immigration link I provided, or may have been intentionally misstating the immigration law to pressure the payment of the fine.

jdeerfoot said:

Uncle Phil had a handshake agreement with NMR that they would give his groups a pass on requiring the permits for non-residents

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I don't know who Uncle Phil is or was. If he was an Ontario businessman, your friend would not have had to get the permit if he was "using a camping unit rented from" Uncle Phil per section 2(1)(b) of this Ontario regulation.

Uncle Phil (Cotton) was the driving force behind the Wabakimi Project, he is responsible (along with many volunteers) for the maps, guidebooks and the reopening and maintenance of the portage trails in the park. If I have it right the Friends of Wabakimi organization took over after he died a few years ago.

recped said:

Uncle Phil (Cotton) was the driving force behind the Wabakimi Project, he is responsible (along with many volunteers) for the maps, guidebooks and the reopening and maintenance of the portage trails in the park. If I have it right the Friends of Wabakimi organization took over after he died a few years ago.

The Wabakimi Project

Click year to see the yearly history that produced our Five Wabakimi Canoe Route Volumes

www.wabakimi.org

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Yes recped, you have it right. The Friends of Wabakimi (FOW) is the organization which Uncle Phil set-up to take over as the Wabakimi Project (WP) ceased operation after its final season in August 2018.

Myself and 3 other long time participants were recruited by Uncle Phil as the first board of directors of FOW, which was incorporated as a non-profit in Ontario in 2014. The WP continued to operate trips each summer out of Phil’s house in Thunder Bay, while the FOW board met monthly to set-up and organize FOW.

Uncle Phil unexpectedly passed away in May 2018. Since the final summer of trips were already organized and staffed, several volunteers along with much help from a Thunder Bay resident who had long been involved with the WP made sure the 2018 season was carried out successfully. Phil’s son and daughter very graciously allowed the use of his house as a base for the final season. At the conclusion of the final trip that summer, the WP ceased operation and the FOW became fully operational.

The FOW has been very successful in carrying out Uncle Phil’s vision and now has an active membership of approximately 300+ members with members from the states and Canada, as well as several other countries. Uncle Phil would be very pleased that his efforts resulted in a vibrant organization promoting the greater Wabakimi area as a world class paddling destination as well as actively advocating for its preservation

One final point about Crown Land camping permits and Uncle Phil. For many years he operated a seasonal business during summer with his wife (he was a teacher with his summers free). As I recall it was called Canadian Wilderness Experience. He ran canoe trips in Quetico for youth groups, scout troops etc. As he became increasingly disenchanted with what he considered to be an overused Quetico, he started to explore the Wabakimi area. Since he was a licensed Ontario guide, he had the gear to rent out for wilderness canoe trips and business standing to offer rental receipts. He offered to provide many of his WP participants a bogus receipt for a tent rental (domicile) which would allow US residents to avoid having to pay for a Crown Land permit. I never took him up on this offer and am not sure if anyone else ever did. Eventually he let his guide license expire and no longer offered the receipts.

Further info on Phil Cotton, if you can find a copy Canoe & Kayak magazine June 2010 issue.

I met with Phil several times in Thunder Bay. Between Phil and Hoop, I was guided through the double speak Orwellian language of the MNR forestry planning process. Phil was not only involved with Wabakimi, he was also trying to change the value system for the forestry plans around him. Using the information from Phil's extensive plans, I joined the local citizen's advisory group (GANRAC) and was finally able to obtain most of the values Phil and I had discussed for the Kenogami and Nipigon plans. The final victory was obtaining buffers for in-between lake portages, which the industry had fought against for quite some time. Strange that this should come up now, as last Wednesday I resigned from the committee as the canoe route advocate. I'm back at work full time again, and I find it is consuming most of my time.

There is a lot going on up here right now. In light of recent developments from the USA, there is a renewed push, both provincially and federally, to activate the Ring of Fire mining area. Plans that were merely plans are zooming ahead. As we speak, a fibre optic cable is being laid all the way past Aroland with the intention of running it straight north to the ROF area. Likewise, it seems hydro plans are being fast tracked, as well as road access. The softwood lumber industry could be destroyed once again by tarrifs, but the mining industry, especially the rare earth minerals in the Ring of Fire, will most likely boom. This is a double edged sword for canoeists. The forest industry has a huge impact on wilderness canoe routes, so when the business slows down or stops, there is often a break from the continual process of route protection. On the other hand, there is no process for route protection from the mining act. It is "carte blanche" so to say, mining companies do pretty much whatever they want to, especially when there are not many prying eyes around.

I'm not trying to start a political debate, so please let's not go there, but just a heads up for informational purposes - there is a large anti-American sentiment swelling in Canada, and being used as the main platform for the upcoming federal election. The Conservative party, which was pretty much assured of a win, is falling quickly in the polls, largely because they are viewed, rightly or wrongly, as being in league with US Republicans.

In any case, this is the first time politics has me concerned about canoe routes, with the current climate, environmental concerns could be pretty much chucked out the door. It was probably the wrong time for me to resign from GANRAC. The doorway to the ROF is right through many of our prime canoe routes, and there will be no quarter given once the stream roller of economic salvation is the blade that buries the environmental concerns.

For American canoeists, there will be no worries in Northern Ontario, we have always been happy to see you guys, and will continue to do so. The only time you will hear politics discussed on a canoe trip is, well, never. Maybe my buddy Chainsaw Rob and I, if we are on a trip together, but not in large grooups, we are out there to enjoy the wilderness, and not to sully it with human silliness.

Thanks for the update on the current political/environmental status in my favorite place. The last time I heard this much inside info on this topic was prior to 2018 when Uncle Phil was still actively following it. I will be real interested to hear what my long time Canadian paddling friends have to say about the current state of affairs between our countries. One thing that always amazed me was how well informed so many Canadians were regarding what’s happening in the states compared to the average US citizen.