Kevin Callan: Death of the Campfire

clemency said:

I once built an alcohol stove just to see what all the fuss was about. Lit it, didn't see any flame, stuck my hand over it like an idiot to see if it was burning, burned my hand in the process, and once I'd put the flame out never tried one again.

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Yeah.... that's my other reason.

clemency said:

I once built an alcohol stove just to see what all the fuss was about. Lit it, didn't see any flame, stuck my hand over it like an idiot to see if it was burning, burned my hand in the process, and once I'd put the flame out never tried one again.

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The kid who touches a hot kitchen stove burner for the first time will likely learn enough to never do that again.

I have used Trangia stoves for many years and loved the simplicity of safely cooking with them. Knowing how to operate the burner flame which is nearly invisible is an acquired skill. A simmering ring works great for controlling heat and the optional preheater patch attachment always works when it is super cold. Alcohol may be a slower way to cook, but who is in a hurry anyway? I have plenty of time because si do not have to go through the chore and effort of collecting wood and maintiaining a cookfire/campfire.

What’s the efficiency of alcohol stoves? Do they operate on rubbing alcohol?

@Black_Fly - I have no idea how well rubbing alcohol works but finding fuel is easy enough. It's already been stated somewhere in this thread but purchase Heet in the YELLOW bottle and you'll be all set. Typically you can find it in auto stores or any place that sells something like that. I found my last bottle at AutoZone (no intention to promote a particular group here...that's just where I purchased it).

That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.

snapper

I know a lot of people like to use methanol (Heet, in the yellow bottle), but from day one I have always used denatured ethanol (lacquer thinner) in my Trangia stoves. Never use rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) because it makes a very sooty flame that will deposit a black mess on your pots. Ethanol is also sold as marine stove fuel. Ethanol burns very clean and will burn even cleaner if up to 10% of water is added to it.

I used to impress scouts with a tricky little demo, along with a carefully explained caution at the end of my magic. I take a gulp from my water bottle (which is pure water), or from the lake, then show that I add a bit to my alcohol burner (which previously is nearly full of alcohol), before lighting it. "See, I can burn water as fuel in my stove!" I am careful to then show them the trick before they make a mistake by trying to improperly do the same.

Does alcohol burn longer than white gas per volume?

@Black_Fly I'm not sure if it burns longer than white gas per volume, but I am sure it burns at a lower temperature, which would complicate a 1-to-1 comparison of the two. There are lots of stove geeks on the internet that have probably done experiments with that. Rubbing alcohol does not work very well in them, I've always used denatured alcohol.

In re the efficiency of alcohol stoves, most of the pros I've heard for them boil down to "comparative weight-savings for a particular length of trip". That is, will carrying the lighter but less efficient alcohol stove make sense in terms of weight saved while walking, say, 100 miles, compared to carrying another kind of stove? Mine was maybe a few ounces lighter than a canister stove, which means a great deal if you're thru-hiking the AT, but isn't as important if you're out for a weekend.
I did about 300 miles on the AT one time with one. They're efficient enough, but in the backpacking world 'efficient' is a word that's generally tied into a convoluted weight/performance/convenience/size metric. Mine was very susceptible to wind and cold air increasing boiling time. My real gripe was that it was hard to light; I used a Mora combination knife/firesteel to just chuck sparks into mine and that worked well, but if I didn't carry that particular knife I would be much less interested in carrying the stove. They're definitely a solo cooking item for me; if I had to boil water for more than one person I would bring something else.
Accolades for backpacking gear can be really misleading. Most of the clothing that's sold as "warmest for its weight," for instance, generally means "not very warm".

During the Yukon 1000 mile canoe race (twice) in a 7 paddler voyageur canoe, we ate hot rehydrated home dehydrated meals twice a day. We boiled water over a securely mounted burner screwed into one tall large isobutane canister. I also had a couple of spare regular size canisters with us that were not used. The original tall canister lasted for the entire race, fully six days of two meals a day. No one lacked for a hot breakfast or dinner and no one went hungry. We (actually the lucky paddler in seat #5) did heat water, rehydrate, and pass mugs of food around while still paddling while still continuously underway.

My mother was a fan of alcohol stoves (Trangia), she always used Methyl Hydrate (99.85% Methanol), almost certainly because it's the cheapest and available anywhere that sells hardware or paint.

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Black_Fly said:

What’s the efficiency of alcohol stoves? Do they operate on rubbing alcohol?

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I've used rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol) before- when it's hard to get ethanol or methanol, you can get 99% in 500ml bottles from costco for about 1/2 the price of ethanol. while it does work well and, it has a similar amount of calories (about 30,000 kj/kg), it has a lower flame point. Rubbing alcohol doesn't contain as much energy as butane (133,000kj/kg) and will burn a little cooler than either ethyl/ methyl alcohol, or butane, and seems to increase boiling time by about 20%.
in europe isopropanol is actually the most common fuel for alcohol stoves.

All kinds of fires are being banned except for uncontrolled forest fires. Those are the ones that people seem to approve of. It is the USFS main management tool. Otherwise we would be managing forests and thinning them to create fire resilience. The crazy people are running the asylum.

ppine said:

All kinds of fires are being banned except for uncontrolled forest fires. Those are the ones that people seem to approve of. It is the USFS main management tool. Otherwise we would be managing forests and thinning them to create fire resilience. The crazy people are running the asylum.

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Does that make the Canadians even crazier since the they just let the forest fires burn?

...maybe a few ounces lighter than a canister stove, which means a great deal if you're thru-hiking the AT, but isn't as important if you're out for a weekend.

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The gram weenies are to the backpacking world what the yakkers are to the paddling world... They don't really bother me but I have no desire to be one (truthfully, it does bother me when one tells me I'm doing it wrong by not joining them in their insanity). I've hiked hundreds of miles and still carry a perk coffee pot and, often, an axe and small saw. (I've done 30 mile days but usually limit it to15-20 as it's a more enjoyable pace)

The crazy people are running the asylum.

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That could apply to nearly every aspect of modern society but we're not going to fix any of that here and I try hard to live by the adage of "what cannot be remedied, must be endured".

Does that make the Canadians even crazier since the they just let the forest fires burn?

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I'm unsure of the other National Forests' policies but I'm fairly certain that Superior Nat'l Forest allows naturally occurring wildfires to burn themselves out unless they are endangering human settlements. IIRC, they've considered fire to be a natural part of the ecosystem since the 70's and let them burn. Crazy huh?

Gamma1214 said:

The gram weenies are to the backpacking world what the yakkers are to the paddling world... They don't really bother me but I have no desire to be one (truthfully, it does bother me when one tells me I'm doing it wrong by not joining them in their insanity). I've hiked hundreds of miles and still carry a perk coffee pot and, often, an axe and small saw. (I've done 30 mile days but usually limit it to15-20 as it's a more enjoyable pace)


That could apply to nearly every aspect of modern society but we're not going to fix any of that here and I try hard to live by the adage of "what cannot be remedied, must be endured".

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I'm with ya there on both counts.

Gamma1214 said:

I'm unsure of the other National Forests' policies but I'm fairly certain that Superior Nat'l Forest allows naturally occurring wildfires to burn themselves out unless they are endangering human settlements. IIRC, they've considered fire to be a natural part of the ecosystem since the 70's and let them burn. Crazy huh?

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If they did that here in Idaho, there wouldn't be any forest left. Come to think of it, at the current rate, I wouldn't bet against that eventually anyway.